And your yellow ribbons still aren't enough

How much does the Ribben cost? How much does the sticker cost?

Instructions for Requesting a Free "Support Our Troops" Bumper Sticker

Due to high demand, we are asking for a $1 minimum donation per bumper sticker.
Send a SASE (self-addressed, stamped envelope) to:
Yellow Ribbon America
P.O. Box 3551
Huntington Beach, CA 92605-3551
(714) 454-1150

OR Yellow Ribbon Bumper Sticker $6.99 http://www.cafepress.com/shop/bumper-stickers/browse/Ntt-yellow+ribbon_pp-3_N-1332_pv-chocolatecats.14632470_No-1_Ntk-All_D-yellow+ribbon_Nao-1

So if you have 2 cars you spent $13.98

100 yards of 3/8 inch doubled-faced satin ribbon for 19.98 http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=001&Product_Code=RI0001&Category_Code=RA
OK and if you put 6 in on each car (2 again) that means you have 3588 inches left. Can you not get some family members to split the cost of all that ribbon? How about putting a few on a tree. Sounds like ribbon is more cost offective!!

That's really not the point of what I was saying. The fact is, whether you buy ribbon or buy a sticker, the money you are shelling out, isn't going to the troops. If you buy yellow ribbon from the link you gave, your money goes to Denver Fabrics. If you buy THAT sticker (and IMHO ANYTHING from CafePress is LIKELY to be overpriced because people selling things there are looking to make as much profit as possible, but the "wholesale" price to the makers of the things up there is STILL more than CafePress pays so that CafePress makes a profit) your money goes to the person who made that graphic and slapped it up on CafePress.

In neither case does the money go to help the troops. So, my point was, whether it's a sticker or a piece of fabric, you're still spending money that doesn't go to our troops, so why does it matter if it's ribbon or a sticker.

OK here is a idea. First I have seen the stickers here for 4.99 so that was high, still 2 cars not so good.
Get Ribbon say 100 yards (3600 inches) you can get it for as low as $9 at Michaels Get people to give you $1.00 for 6 inches of ribbon. Now you just made $600, then you can do what with that $600??



Wow you just gave one of our Troops what they needed. That was so nice of you. Then lets say note just you does that lets say 1000 of use does that. WOW that is 1000 of our troops that is over there. Not really hard to do. If you want to support the troops do so. If you don’t want to spend the $600 sent it to one of the 1000s of groups that helps them out with Care packages and other things. Spending 8 on a sticker that you get to use once is just lame in my book. If you spend the same amount and you have 100 yards that you can put EVERY place sounds like a savings. If you then want to make some money to send to the troops even better.



In my personal opinion it does matter. The people who made the Sticker did so for one reason to make money on the name of our troops. The ribbon makers made the ribbon for one reason, because people use ribbon for things and they should make money on that. One is a general reason, one is a Use of our troops. I find the Use of your troops sad.

Don't forget that the "stickers and ribbons" (and flags), being so widespread, also serve to show everyone how widespread support for the troops is. When guys came back from Vietnam, they were shunned. When troops come back from Iraq or Afghanistan now, they see support for them EVERYWHERE. Maybe that's one reason the military is exceeding it's re-enlistment goals?

Maybe it's one or two dollars ($5 is ridiculous) that could go towards something more practical... but we shouldn't underestimate the value of thanking and showing support for our troops; I think it means alot to them.

The fact that you are giving real support is what matters Hope your family members make it home safe and sound. As for the piece of yellow ribbon as opposed to the stickers, the manufacturer of the real yellow ribbon didn't create it specifically to profit off your sentiments whereas the sticker maker did.

It's only widespread because of 9/11.
It is also widespread because of the way people get if you don't support the war or the Bush administration. For a country that promotes free speech, it has become very hard to disagree with the government without being labelled a traitor, america hater, etc.

I do agree, that the manufacturers of some of the yellow stickers in existance do profit off the sentiments of their customers. And I agree that ethically that's not so cool on their parts.

And thank you, Chip.



I didn't pay 4.99 for my sticker. I paid a buck and change.

IF I had 3600 inches of yellow ribbon, I probably would not sell it to anyone, simply give it to any who asked and ask them to consider donating the money they'd have spent on the ribbon to charity. However, reasonable suggestion, Lupo.

Alot better for the morale of our troops, at least? (I'd rather have some of that go on than have returning troops get spit on.)

It depends on where you go, anyway. I wouldn't want to be a conservative speaker going to a public university to give a speech. "Free speech" in that setting is a very different thing.

Governments learn. The Vietnam thing warned them they need new ways to crush morally-based dissent at home. The answer was to use the media to whip up exaggerated fears, and distrust of others around them.

The War on Terrorism, and on Iraq, is a sort of "Vietnam meets McCarthyism".

And partly due to the lower-intensity levels of the drugs culture, the young people then were more concerned, and moral, and less materialistic and self-serving than now. And yes, perhaps braver.

Drugs do bad things, but the better ones do reduce the obsession with self, and gain. One reason they are so feared in societies built on both.

And don't infer that I advocate them, or use them. I don't. I am an observer. On balance they are bad. Including alcohol and nicotine.

Please don't make me responsible for starting a "drugs" hijack. We can discuss its possible relation to Vietnam dissent in another thread if you like.......

I agree about not selling the ribbon, I do give it to people if they want it. But Most of my ribbon goes to craft projects.

Any one else find it funny that half of us here are discussing the possibility that the US may have killed several millions of people, including some of its own soldiers, for reasons about which it lies.

The other half - the economics of little ribbons.

No criticism. I understand they have symbolic significance. But on the face of it - a bizarre juxtaposition dont you agree ?

Not really. The original post was about the troops not getting the equipment they need with a thread title implying that sentimental ribbons don't stop bullets. The anti-war portion of the thread was actually a bit off topic (and I say that as someone very much opposed to the war).

It may be too early to argue these points.

Remember the serious protests of the veitnam war took place after a much longer ammount of time we were in the conflict.

Also a lot more people had died.

I truley hope Iraq doesnt turn into some sort of repeat of the Veitnam war. If we see 10,000 American dead (Veitnam was over 50,000) I am pretty sure there will be Protests to rival those during Vietnam.

I hope it never gets to that. Somehow there has to be a better way for it to end for everyone concerned.

Maybe you're right, Chip. Could be argued that the ribbons are just that - symbolic of the war, and what the troops are being made to do, the families being made to risk, and the country being made to own in the eyes of the world. That these wider issues are therefore implicitly associated.

Still, OK, I submit

would also like to argue one aspect about how the youth was more motivated during Vietnam.

There was a draft.

That changes a LOT of things.

Young people didnt want to die , see their friends who didnt want to be soldier die, see the men they were going to marry carted off to vietnam. Family members who were going to work in the family business shipped off , etc.

I think the draft and the number of deaths led to more resistance to the war than the drug permissiveness of the counter culture.

Fact is only people who volunteered have gone to war this time.

Don't get me wrong. I happen to agree with you. Any discussion of the war is bound to become a discussion of the pros and cons so I didn't see the directions the thread went as being an odd juxtaposition at all really. It is all implicitly related.

I read the original article then posted that it would have been more effective (to me) had it had more facts or even showed some effort to investigate the claim. Until more facts come around about this, there isnt much we can discuss. To me it was just a stir-em-up article overflowing with emotion and dry on any real reporting/evidence. So the fact that we talked about ribbons didnt matter. The original article needed more info.

Since this thread is still going I'll make a few more comments. Some people are saying they cant express themselves without being labelled anti-american or such. I want to comment on that. The problem some of us have with comments 'from the left' (excuse the term) is that they are 100% extreme for the most part. They give no ground in their points of view. Rarely, if ever, do I hear anyone left of center place any blame or even consider/address the fact that Saddam holds even 'some' responsibility for rape/torture/murder of his own people, for letting people go hungry, etc. Its always turns out like it does in this thread: America is killing MANY MILLIONS and Saddam's number is whittled down (at this point I think its down to 100k in this thread?). No one even openly admits Osama's part in things. The list goes on. So for some of us, when all we hear is 100% left extreme US = babykillers = NWO = plot = etc, and we hear ZERO accountability being placed on people like Saddam; then why is it people freak out when some from the right go to the extreme and call some of you anti-american and such? People seem too stubborn to give an inch to "the other side"; and that goes for the right and the left. Hell even people with ribbons on their car are by default considered stupid and 'taken advantage of' by some people here. Until we agree to give some ground and meet closer to the center these 'discussions' will just be poo flinging.

But did you catch my point? Most of the people doing the questioning seem (to me) to be very extreme and 1 sided in their points. Virtually zero middle ground.

yes that was my point as to one of the reasons more youth do not protest as opposed to how it was during vietnam

I think if you check you'll find that quite a proportion of the protesters were concerned about dead Vietnamese at least as much. Sort of - thought of them as human too, you know ? And inside their own country. Lots of them just - sort of - at home minding their own business. Like so many dead Iraqis. Yet those poor US soldiers were drafted too, unlike the present ones who volunteered to serve and should have expected to go fight some time.

But I fear your analysis, counting only american deaths as of any significance, may well be correct regarding the attitude of the present US population en masse.
Relates to my "druggie concern for others" point, I suppose.

Well I still don't know it that is true, after all more people know why we are at war in Iraq over Vietnam.

Vietnam
Fight for France to keep control over them.

Iraq
WMD, ok they may not have had them but they did have the plains.
Freedom, They have more freedom today and less likely to be taken off at night and raped and killed by it’s government.
Tritium, Yes there is no proof that Iraq had ties to bin Laden. What we do have proof of was him giving money to families of suicide bombers that killed Americans or Israelis. We also have proof of a Palestrina tarist group training in Iraq buy the Iraq military and secret police.

Even if you disagree with WMD the others you can’t. 2 and 3 are worth fighting over were Vietnam was not.

That rings sadly true, Colette. Maybe it's more significant than my romantic "druggies cared about others" effect. Oh dear. Perhaps youth protest against the Vietnam war just naked self-interest after all. Not too keen to believe that. Yuk.

It was sold as a stuggle against the spread of global communism. Substitute the word 'communist' for the word 'terrorist' in any communication from the administration and the parallels become obvious.