And your yellow ribbons still aren't enough

Those letters will most likely be read by nineteen-year-old college interns who are sharing a six-pack of Bud late at night in the outer offices. If you state your concern over the lack of up-to-date equipment for the armed services, your letter will be tabulated as in support of the war in Iraq. If you try to explain the distinction between your support of soldiers and your opposition to the war, it's likely that your letter will not be read, or will be misunderstood, or will go into the "crank" pile. You will, in most cases, receive a form letter in return. It may look like a personalized letter with a personal signature, but that's because technology is so wonderful these days.

If the political leader you write to receives thousands and thousands of short, easy-to-understand-at-a-glance notes describing a position he or she is already partly convinced of, and yours is one of them, then your letter may have some small influence. Or, if you are the twenty-thousand-to-one-chance letter that is picked out of the pile by the exhausted intern and forwarded up the food chain to his/her supervisor, you may be quoted somewhere.

That's how things tend to work on that level.

Actually she has a very good case for this given our current situation and now warplans for Iran already on the table along with our aggressive stances against any country who dares disagree with us in what we perceive as being right. Cuba, Venezuela, France, Spain, Mexico and Germany just to name a few from recent events.

BTW did we ever release Luis Posada, the prime suspect (hey lets play the US name game: terrorist) in Cuba / Venezuela accused of blowing up a Cuban airliner in 1976, killing 73 people.

Posada is also legendary among south Florida's Cuban exile community for his plots to kill Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Sorry I don't care about how you feel toward Castro but plain and simple the above mentioned is also terrorist activity.

Again did we release him.. why no we didn't because he is / was a CIA informant/operative. No wonder so many in the world want to do our people harm.

Sad as it is thats very minor potatoes compared to what alot of our intelligence community has done in the last few decades in Central America, South America and the Middle East.

This information is fact and it is being swept under the rug and we are protecting the terrorists that we are supposed to be fighting.

We could also discuss the amazing precedent we set after 9/11 and declared war on an unannounced enemy and then went to war going after Al Queda and Usama bin Ladin and changed our minds somewhere along the line LIED TO THE WORLD that Saddam had WMD's and invaded a sovereign country once again filling their soil w. depleted Uranium and filling mass graves with untold tens of thousands of civilian casualties.

Too bad we never showed that kind of activism in Rwanda, but I guess they don't have anything of value there anyway, right?



Our Sons and Daughters fighting over there are not fighting for us they are fighting for our government under the pretense of a pack of lies. I happen to have 3 professional acquaintances and 2 friends who served and were lucky enough to make it home and they all agree on one thing, we are doing more damage over there than good at this point, the morale is bad among many units because of the complete lack of equipment (boots and other very basic needs not to mention kevlar vests) many have come to realize there are and never were WMD's there to go back after.

I hope each and every one of our Sons and Daughters comes home safely, I would just like to see our council on foreign relations, congressmen and senators all go and take their places for a month or two because god knows it would all come to an end before even one of them finished a full tour of duty.

It is not un patriotic to inform yourselves and speak out, in fact the opposite is more true, it is un patriotic to not inform yourselves and to let innocent blood continue to be spilled.

Yes exactly! So stop by my store and buy some "support our troops" paraphenalia. That BMW isn't going to buy itself you know.

Your information is incorrect.

Servicemembers' Group Life Insurance (SGLI) pays out up to $250,000 USD. When I was in the Navy both my husband and myself were insured to the max of 250,000 and it isnt that expensive. SGLI premiums are currently $.065 per $1,000 of insurance.

Considering all the extra's military personel get: housing money (BAH) and grocery money (BAS), the premium for max life insurance is paltry.

http://www.insurance.va.gov/sgliSite/SGLI/SGLI.htm - for your information.

Briana Dawson

The first article would be more interesting if it spent more time on data/facts than emotion. I dont doubt what was said in the article but it would be more meaningful if we knew exactly what this "special military equipment" included and if it was compared to the standard equipment. What are the differences? When was this special setup deemed the best practise? If this special equipment is better has anyone demanded it become standard issue? If so where is the bottleneck in that change? Etc. I have alot of questions but this article addressed none of them. Why? Probably because its goal was to stir up emotion and not actually spend time helping report on the specific issues.

As far as the yellow ribbons go, who cares if someone spends a dollar to show support even if it goes to some fat rich guy? Its a ONE TIME PURCHASE OF $1. Guess what, we spend/waste more than that on multiple occassions a day. Do we run into a fancy restaruant and cuss everyone out because they could have ate cheaper somewhere else and sent the savings to support our troops? Maybe I slash the tires of all SUVs because they are wasting their money on gas when there are alot more fuel efficient vehicles out there? They are wasting their money! Oh no! Dont judge people for a cheap one time purchase, some of the people driving those cars with those ribbons have sons, daughters, husbands and wives putting their life on the line. We dont need to be asking them about their support/sacrifice.

Well just think if all those dollars went to buy flak jackets instead of stickers. No doubt they've sold millions of them. But yeah, it's more important to tell the person in the car behind you that you support the troops

Bingo....its the sensationalism. Lets ELUDE to the facts while we tug at your heart strings.

While you are at it, reach a little lower to your wallet and buy some products from our sponsors so that we can continue to throw more crap journalism your way.

I didn't call them a liar. I said I dont think there is a shortage of personal gear for soldiers and Marine's.

My opinion is based on my 21 years in the military. I have also personally interviewed thousands of soldiers, marines, sailors, airmen returing from overseas including the gulf and afganistan. Its my job to talk to the guys and girls. Not one service member ever complained to me of no flack vest. Some of the stuff they did complain about makes the flack vest situation seem trival but that another story.

This Marine is still state side. Somtime you dont get your sh** until you get there. My unit went throught the same thing and everybody was in a panic. Everybody got there stuff and did ther mission. Just like this Marine will.

And if the person driving the car has a spouse or child serving in the armed forces, who are you to question their one time expense of $1? Also its more important that they have the freedom to put that bumper sticker on their car no matter the message. There are tons of ways to save/raise money for this equipment (assuming we ever see facts about its availability and not emotion).

That, too "....is an opinion, not a fact. Do not portray it as such."

What or whom they are dying for is very much a disputed matter of opinion.
Precisely what people have been disagreeing with you about.

From my experience, Flavian's right. However, the armed forces do play publicity games with the political establishment to procure funding, and this story strikes me as having some of the hallmarks.

So whats your opinion on our armed forces that are in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda? You dont support them? You feel attacks on those groups arent justified? They arnt dying for you?

They are American Soldiers.

Are you American?

They are dying. Fact. Does the "what or whom they are dying for" actually matter? Would you ask the same thing about a gay man who died of AIDS?

You two need to cut it out. You both know as much as anyone who reads these posts that her meaning was very different. You both know that she and any rational person abhors violence of any kind, even the kind that is necessary in the defense of innocent people. You both know that whether she is an American has no bearing here, and is an inappropriate question to ask - as inappropriate as if I were to ask whether either of you had served your own countries in combat and thus had the experience to form your opinions.

My concern is - how does a family feel if they cannot raise $600 to protect their child's life ? How many lives have actually been lost because of family poverty ?

This really isn't good enough. Can't we dig out some of the billions of missing Iraqi oil money that has been misappropriated/lost by the US authorities, to ensure every soldier who might go anywhere near danger has equipment as good as the wealthiest?

Surely there should be equality of equipment, all major items should be worn only as issued? Either a decent flak-jacket is issued, or no-one should wear one. That way they'd be issued in a second, cos all the rich parents would be screaming too.

I simply stated that "who they are dying for" is a matter of opinion and is disputed. If you don't believe me, look round this forum.

This is the type of apathy that maintains the status quo.

I've working in Washington for 15 years. When I make the recommendation to contact your congressman, I do not make it lightly.

Also, if you cc your letter to your congressmen to the local newspapers in their district, you'd be surprised how high they jump.

I strongly disagree with you that it is not possible to support the troops while not supporting the war. If you feel the need to make yourself known, state that in your letter.

So neither of the groups I mentioned are responsible for 9/11 in your opinion?

I think our troops are exactly where those responsible for 9/11 wanted them to be.

I think we need to distinguish carefully between things some people in this thread are confusing together.

"Supporting our troops" is not the same thing as supporting the government policies which ordered them into action. Opposing the latter is not "failing to support our troops". If (as some think) government policy is seriously wrong, then it might be that the best way to support our troops is to do everything possible to get them back home out of danger. Remember the Vietnam war and how its vets felt, still feel, and have been treated.

As long as they are there, under orders, they are obedient to their nation's commanders, and as such (provided they behave as honorably as it is reasonable to expect) deserve day-to-day support, encouragement, good safe equipment etc etc. Quarrels are not with the soldiers, but with the government. And therefore, less directly, with those who chose to elect it.

If you believe however that the purposes of the nation are not being well served by these military actions, or that they are immoral or illegal, then our leaders are abusing our soldiers loyalty, and (sadly) these soldiers are dying not for the american people, but for the american government. And for those who support its policies. Not for the others. Not morally.

It is thrown into the arena of Ideas that Dissent in and of itself is cuasing the troops not to feel support.

This of course is an unworkable situation. Since Dissent HAS to be allowed in America.

This has led to the "Support the Troops but not the war" statement.

Which of course many who are for the war see as an impossibility. So then basically they box people not into the war with accusations they dont support people who are dying for them.

This is a Fallacy. Its wrong. Its slander and manipulative.

Most people who dont want the war have amoung their MAIN reasons the fact they ****dont want any more American Soldiers killed****

gee, such an awful an unpatriotic notion that they dont want Americans to die?

It is perfectly within reason to not agree with this war, to want American Soldiers to be safe. To hope that if they MUST fight this war they manage to do it in such away to minimze American and Iraqi civilian casulties.

Its the people who think that these are somehow contridictions that are CLAIMING the voice of dissent is that "Liberals want the US to lose and US soldiers to die" - this is what hurts the troops.

If the Hawks werent so dogmatic about their approach to try burying the liberals maybe the soldiers wouldnt feel so bad about protests at home.

Actually, no I don't know.

I have no idea what kind of person she is the same as she or you have no idea what kind of person I am. I don't make an assumption that she abhors violence based on one or two threads

But for your information, I ask questions. If there is a topic to debate, I debate it civilly. If she has offense to that, then sorry, its not meant to be like that. This just goes along with the territory with a thread such as this.

I don't clutter posts with a bunch of smileys and LOL to try to get along.

As for being American, it was NOT inappropriate because as you know there are many people here from other countries. I did not want to address an issue that way if she wasn't from American.

As for me serving in combat, ummm no I am a woman. I am not allowed. Although, I worked for the DoD for 13 years. My father is a combat veteran. My husband is a combat veteran. My brother died in Vietnam. My nephew just served a term in Iraq as I stated earlier. Does that give me enough background to be able to post my opinions to this thread?

A few days ago I was behind an SUV that had a dozen of those stickers on it... AIDs awareness, breast cancer, support the troops, yada yada. It seemed to me it would have been simpler if they'd just bought one really big sticker that said "My sentiments are easily manipulated for profit" Okay, I'll shut up now.

nWo *flexes*

Very good post, Ellie.

Regardless of how you feel or what you think, the reality is they are over there and fighting and dying.

Ask any Vietnam vet how they feel about Jane Fonda to this day. I don't think any of them will ever let go of that grudge.