Burning Life Lottery Exploit
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
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08-29-2006 06:49
Sometimes I like to sit back and not comment when Prok's name is brought up. But this time I have to. The forums are better without Prok I was afraid to post and now I am not. Please don't rewrite history. From: Foolish Frost Not meaning any offense or malice toward you, but...
Bullhocky!
I just MENTIONED Prok's name a few months back, and nearly was nailed to the wall. Getting rid of Prok did nothing to improve the forums. The ones who screamed about him were still here as well.
Not saying I'm mad about it, but once targeted by it, your not going to ignore it either...
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From: Billybob Goodliffe the truth is overrated  From: Argent Stonecutter The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better? Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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08-29-2006 07:07
From: Uma Bauhaus That is a fascinating question and believe it or not I was actually wondering the very same thing about you. I really would like to know where your self righteousness and penchant to engage in cruel public persecution come from. I was imagining that this is due to a puritanical religious upbringing where one was taught to engage in an inquisition through the process of unmitigated character assassination. Although it sounds like I'm mocking you, this is a serious inquiry and honestly and I'm not putting you down. I too have interested in how we evolve our self-image and I'd love to know why you question peoples ethics using the most unethical methodology possible. Well, Uma. I asked about you. You replied not about yourself, but about me. But mine was actually a serious inquiry, not meant as an attack. So I'll do your question the courtesy of an honest reply about myself. My grandfather was a minister of religion, and my father reacted against what he saw as hypocritical cant, and was a determined atheist. My mother began life as a dedicated christian, but totally rejected it at the age of 19 when she became aware of the bigger world, and has never gone back. Neither was a very sociable person, and they brought us up outside any of the normal social groupings which adhere to strong rules of behaviour or externally determined belief systems. Above all they told us to judge for ourselves and resign our moral responsibility for that to no person, and to no book. I was an exceptionally bright child (not always a blessing) and I was taught that this was not given to me to help me feel superior to others less bright, quite the opposite - that it gave me a responsibility to use any gifts I had to fight against intellectual bullying, against hypocrisy, and to try to promote justice, equality and respectful treatment for all except the bullies. God knows I fall short, but that is what I still believe. So for me the ultimate crime is not being stupid, or a bully, or arrogant, or stupid and arrogant, - the thing that gets my rag most is to see someone bright using their intelligence to be bullying and arrogant. Is like prostitution. I see it as a gift from God, meant to be used for others, being abused for personal gain. It's a sort of intellectual version of "Noblesse Oblige" . The barrier to being a decent human being for us all is the ego, and we all struggle against it to varying degrees, very definitely me included. I guess my biggest ego problem of relevance here lies in being so cheeky as to try to be a bit of a "crusader" if I think I see someone abusing others and claiming superior status, or special treatment. Which is what I think I saw you doing, more and more each post you made, culminating in the "and I'll post this same ten paragraphs over and over again every few minutes and you can't stop me" post, which reassured me. It reassured me that I had not got my assessment of you wrong. As for religion, Uma, mine is very individual. I found God, but not the God of organised religion. I see the dance, its beauty and complexity. I know who is dancing, and I know why. Two dancers through these forums and this game are called Uma and Ellie, and if their brief little pirouette together is characterised by a little hostility, and a flare of discord on the trumpet, it all adds to the richness of the dance and the depth of the melody. It's all good. But it's enough now. Until perhaps the swirls of the throng brings us back up against each other again. ________________________________________ You know Uma, you can look at this post of mine two ways. You can see it as an even more aggressive and subtle attempt at a put-down. Or you can take it as a straight communication about how I am and what I feel. I assure you it is meant as the latter. But I can clearly see it has much of the appearance of the former, and if you insist on regarding it as such, I'll quite understand. But as for me, I'm off now to dance with some other people.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-29-2006 07:33
Never mind. Better asked diplomatically elsewhere. 
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 07:45
I remember when SL was all about having fun and helping other artists.
Just sayin'
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-29-2006 08:29
From: Kendra Bancroft I remember when SL was all about having fun and helping other artists. I think people do still want it to be, Kendra, but the problem is, it's changed as SL has gotten bigger. Getting together with your friends and helping them out is great, but at a whole world level, it isn't scalable as "helping other artists" anymore - since there will be thousands of artists, who are not known to you, who don't benefit from your help. Then they lose out because, again due to the huge scale of SL, sooner or later they're going to be in competition for people's attention with people who did get that help. Of course this isn't saying that people shouldn't help their friends!  Only that in the newly gigantic SL, just helping your friends doesn't create a helping spirit in the world anymore. To do that, you have to help everyone, and there are many people who do that with things like classes and volunteering, so SL is still a helpful place, it's just the nature of how to help has changed.
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Karley Strauss
Registered User
Join date: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 13
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08-29-2006 10:07
From: Ellie Edo Uma, I know that you have every right to decline to satisfy my curiosity at such a personal question, and I have absolutely no right to ask it, but what is your background with regard to belief systems, faith, religion etc ? I really would like to know where your inflexible sense of your superiority came from. Were you taught it, or did you conjure it yourself ? This is a genuine inquiry, and honestly not intended as a put-down attempt. I have an interest in how we evolve our self-image, and you are pretty far out, girl. Its posts like the one above, that helped LL justify their decision to shut down these forums. Ellie, drop it. I feel Uma/Ulk has appoligized more than enough, what are you not happy with that you feel the need to bring religion preferences into this? Who are you to judge? Only god can judge. I guess you're perfect, you've never made a mistake in your life huh? I don't agree with what Uma/Ulk did, but for crying out loud...I've seen her post WAY too many damn times appoligizing to you fools, she didn't even have to do that. Give credit for whats been done, and stop bitching that its not enough.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 10:21
From: Yumi Murakami I think people do still want it to be, Kendra, but the problem is, it's changed as SL has gotten bigger. Getting together with your friends and helping them out is great, but at a whole world level, it isn't scalable as "helping other artists" anymore - since there will be thousands of artists, who are not known to you, who don't benefit from your help. Then they lose out because, again due to the huge scale of SL, sooner or later they're going to be in competition for people's attention with people who did get that help. Of course this isn't saying that people shouldn't help their friends!  Only that in the newly gigantic SL, just helping your friends doesn't create a helping spirit in the world anymore. To do that, you have to help everyone, and there are many people who do that with things like classes and volunteering, so SL is still a helpful place, it's just the nature of how to help has changed. your issue of scalability doesn't apply to the forums though. The woman apologized but is still being dragged thru the dirt by her fellow creators. The whole thing makes me wish to puke.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-29-2006 10:33
From: Kendra Bancroft your issue of scalability doesn't apply to the forums though.
The woman apologized but is still being dragged thru the dirt by her fellow creators. The whole thing makes me wish to puke. Well, no, I can see their point of view. She issue is that she made a mistake, a Linden decided that she should have a penalty for that mistake, and then every time she apologised she also made a point of announcing that she'd dodged the penalty. It comes down to whether the Linden who told her that she would not get a plot meant this technically (ie, "you won't be assigned a plot but can still enter something if you can figure out a way of doing it that works around that"  , or socially/legally (ie, "you are forbidden from entering BL", no matter what technical method is used for that). This is something I raised on /139/b7/133558/1.html as a Linden question.
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Lupus Delacroix
Wyrm Raider
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 695
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08-29-2006 10:44
From: Kendra Bancroft your issue of scalability doesn't apply to the forums though.
The woman apologized but is still being dragged thru the dirt by her fellow creators. The whole thing makes me wish to puke. If I keep agreeing with you the worlds going to end. Fucking liberal being right about something... sheesh whats the world coming to >.<
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Whimsycallie Pegler
Registered User
Join date: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,003
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08-29-2006 10:50
The one thing I won't miss about the forums is personal bickering. I mean people who don't even listen to each other. Just hop into the ring ready to fight because it is thier percieved opponent on the other side of the ring.
It seems to me that many of you have chosen oppenents here. It is very strange.
Okay, sorry for the interuption.... continue on.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 10:52
From: Yumi Murakami Well, no, I can see their point of view. She issue is that she made a mistake, a Linden decided that she should have a penalty for that mistake, and then every time she apologised she also made a point of announcing that she'd dodged the penalty. It comes down to whether the Linden who told her that she would not get a plot meant this technically (ie, "you won't be assigned a plot but can still enter something if you can figure out a way of doing it that works around that"  , or socially/legally (ie, "you are forbidden from entering BL", no matter what technical method is used for that). This is something I raised on /139/b7/133558/1.html as a Linden question. And here's my point. Who the hell cares?
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Lupus Delacroix
Wyrm Raider
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 695
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08-29-2006 10:54
From: Kendra Bancroft And here's my point.
Who the hell cares? Yeah on a scale of 1 to "I give a damn" this rates "I'm having pizza for lunch" Moof.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 10:56
From: Lupus Delacroix Yeah on a scale of 1 to "I give a damn" this rates "I'm having pizza for lunch"
Moof. toppings? I tend to enjoy green pepper and onions.
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Lupus Delacroix
Wyrm Raider
Join date: 3 May 2006
Posts: 695
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08-29-2006 10:57
From: Kendra Bancroft toppings?
I tend to enjoy green pepper and onions. Meat lovers you liberal heathen!
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Coyote Momiji
Pintsized Plutonium
Join date: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 715
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08-29-2006 10:58
Mushrooms and artichoke hearts, please.
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Slick - Intimate & Fetish Apparel http://slurl.com/secondlife/William/97/176/23
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 10:59
From: Lupus Delacroix Meat lovers you liberal heathen! *whew* back to normal. cow eating fascist!
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-29-2006 11:10
From: Kendra Bancroft And here's my point.
Who the hell cares? Well, it's importart for innovation and knowing what is or is not permitted. Originally, she announced her build would be "travelling". If the Lindens statement that they have lost the lottery and may not have a plot is a technical limitation, that's fine - but therefore, anyone else could have made a travelling build too. If it's a social limitation, it wouldn't be ok. It is not a good thing for people who have a "loose" interpretation of the law to be rewarded, because it results in many people learning to do the same thing and eventually damages the law, and trust in it, as a whole.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 11:12
From: Yumi Murakami Well, it's importart for innovation and knowing what is or is not permitted.
Originally, she announced her build would be "travelling". If the Lindens statement that they have lost the lottery and may not have a plot is a technical limitation, that's fine - but therefore, anyone else could have made a travelling build too. If it's a social limitation, it wouldn't be ok.
It is not a good thing for people who have a "loose" interpretation of the law to be rewarded, because it results in many people learning to do the same thing and eventually damages the law, and trust in it, as a whole. Good! Do you even know what the real Burning Man is about??
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Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
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08-29-2006 11:14
From: Kendra Bancroft Good! Do you even know what the real Burning Man is about?? Exactly. I kind of like the idea of “unauthorized” items showing up at Burning Life. Just as long as they don't interfere with any of the “authorized” builds they are not only fine, but are the very spirit of the Burning Man festival.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-29-2006 11:21
From: Vares Solvang Exactly. I kind of like the idea of “unauthorized” items showing up at Burning Life. Just as long as they don't interfere with any of the “authorized” builds they are not only fine, but are the very spirit of the Burning Man festival. Um, no. You can't enter the real life Burning Man without a ticket, and you can't create a Theme Camp without being approved. This would be like saying that if the organisers of the RL Burning Man through someone out of Black Rock City for misbehaviour, it would be OK for them to jump straight back in as long as they (and enough of their friends) thought that the organiser's reason for doing so wasn't justified. There is a reason why the Lindens didn't just put up a couple of sims of non-buyable public land!
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Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
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08-29-2006 11:27
You are in mid-level management in rl, aren't you?
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 11:29
From: Yumi Murakami Um, no.
You can't enter the real life Burning Man without a ticket, and you can't create a Theme Camp without being approved.
This would be like saying that if the organisers of the RL Burning Man through someone out of Black Rock City for misbehaviour, it would be OK for them to jump straight back in as long as they (and enough of their friends) thought that the organiser's reason for doing so wasn't justified.
There is a reason why the Lindens didn't just put up a couple of sims of non-buyable public land! You make a lousy Hippie.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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08-29-2006 11:34
From: Vares Solvang You are in mid-level management in rl, aren't you?  The truth is that in my RL job, I originally had a "avoid management" attitude, but I quickly found things just don't work that way - sooner or later something goes wrong and then you have to do even more management and even more work to get around it. Unnecessary management, by all means avoid that, but it isn't all unnecessary. Unauthorised builds at Burning Life might sound great, and in tune with the spirit of things, until the sim gets deluged with plywood cubes or obscene objects. How do you define "not interfering with the existing one" and how do you enforce it sensibly? If a griefer uses up the prim allocation on someone's parcel, a Linden can return the griefing objects, but they might not be able to do it instantly; the time limit is meant to be a factor (I think?) and the Lindens can't turn back the clock.
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Finning Widget
No Ravens in my Mailbox
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 591
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08-29-2006 11:39
I'd like to note that at present time, there's nothing on my plot (next to kendra's) and that when I do something there (RL intervened but I have ideas) it will likely be low prim.
*cough*
and will not be high-altitude.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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08-29-2006 11:42
From: Finning Widget I'd like to note that at present time, there's nothing on my plot (next to kendra's) and that when I do something there (RL intervened but I have ideas) it will likely be low prim.
*cough*
and will not be high-altitude. Uma can even situate it half over Finn's and half over mine 
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