Stopping Developers Incentive?

Expecting people to pay their share is evil and twisted? heh. Alrighty then. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Magnum. The "FIC" and "Star Chamber" should cover your costs for you. They owe you. You shouldn't have to pay for anything. Just standing there with your hand out should count as your contribution. Clearly Linden Lab was founded as a charity to provide free entertainment and money to people too cheap to spend a couple of bucks.

I don't own a sim and when I do events like Trivia (Ask Transylvania and The Wilderness for references on this) I do not accept pay I do it for free because I like seeing people have fun.

I am also battleing this argument in the real world.

GOD!!! How many times have I heard a Conservative say they want to do away with Social Security Disability and make even those who have no feeling below their neck work.

I hate the Conservative Movement.

The reason free account holders don't benefit entertainers, event hosts, or clubs, is because they've never been made to. Stop giving away the farm. Those that won't contribute were of no benefit to you to begin with. Those that do contribute will set the example for everyone else.

Then what are you whining about?

FYI, I'm a liberal. I'm just not here to pay for everyone else's entertainment. People can do that for themselves.

And I have to say - no it isn't. It's absolutely natural given the nature of SL.

SL as a whole is an entertainment product. If you're not being entertained by playing SL itself, for its own sake, then there's no point doing it. That remains the case today. If it was ever the case that there would be some entertainment service within SL that could offer value-for-real-money entertainment even to those who would not otherwise enjoy SL, that would be a significant breakthrough and would instantly transform SL into the "platform" that many people seem to seek - but it hasn't happened yet.

So in other words, most people on SL are being entertained - by being on SL - anyway, otherwise they would not be there. The question then is whether the extra entertainment offered by these events is worth paying money for, and in many cases it just isn't, especially with all the permanent objects that the money could be spent on instead. This applies even to free account holders - even if you're spending a very small amount of money there's still the need to make sure you get value for it.

Also I still contend that at the moment it's the case that the service provided by the entertained people to the entertainer - namely, the service of allowing them to be an entertainer in SL as opposed to someone standing singing to an empty club - is of greater value than the service provided vice versa. After all, they know that they can go watch a concert IRL, but the other person probably couldn't perform a concert IRL (or at least, not as often or not such a spectacular venue) otherwise they would. Combine that with the fact that new members have been lured in by the "become whatever you want to be" advertising only to often find that they often can't and thus to have "well, if I can't be what I want to be why should I help you do so?" grudges.



Well, all you have to do is to give them something they want. Even US$0.01 for a shirt for an avatar they still have the option of just not caring about might well be too much.

How on earth you can bring Social Security Disability support on the same plane as online entertainment is beyond me. It's insulting to equate people who are unwilling to finance others people's amusements with being insensitve to the real needs of others.

How the sweet Christ are you comparing entertainment income with social security disability checks?

Do you even think before you post, or do you just hammer out whatever is off the top of your head?

*bangs head on keyboard*

Honestly. You've yet to make one iota of sense in this thread, between Star Chamber, FIC, social security disability checks (wtf), and not explaining your position (big surprise there).

I think for my Christmas present this year I'll add you to my ignore list on Crimmas day. It'll be a joyous occasion. I'll even put a bow on my keyboard.

This is a chicken and egg problem. I dont' see all that much so-called "entertainment" that's _worth_ paying for, despite the fact that I'd be more than happy to pay for something good.

To get me to pay for something there has to be at a very minimum, value added. Clubs, for example, are mostly interchangeable. Streamed music, money balls, best dressed, etc. Who wants to pay for that crap. Give us something that adds value (like say, a live DJ, which I _really_ like) and I'd happily pay a cover charge to get in.

I think Magnum is actually an ALICE chat bot, which kind of explains it all really neatly. Probably not a very cutting edge one, either.

I can vaguely see what he's trying to say.

SL avatars don't have "basic needs" of course, and technically everything in SL is a luxury. But in actual fact, everyone who plays SL is going to have some set of "basic wants" for their av such that if they can't get them, they won't want to play.

And again, you can rave about "sense of entitlement" and "ought to adapt", etc, but that'll just drive them out of the door faster.

You can also argue that if they aren't prepared to pay for stuff, it's good that they leave, because they would only have leeched anyway. But I don't think it's as simple as that. If they got "into" SL, got involved and maybe addicted, then they might be prepared to pay for stuff, but that isn't the same as being prepared to pay out initially and maybe buying a pig in a poke. Sure, they can trade their purchased L$ back but they often can't resell anything they bought with them and they're not likely to be buying L$ just to have them in account.

Since you're "into" SL, you probably would. I think many folks would just shrug and say "streaming radio".

It is interesting that you think Magnum is actually an ALICE chat bot, which kind of explains it all really neatly. What makes you say that?

I know when folks are frustrated it becomes easy to lash out or to bring other frustrations into the picture also. I hope we can challenge ourselves not to do that. I will try to do my part.

I guess I know that very few people will actually pay to go to events, and they sure as heck aren't gonna add up to $200 per month. After event funding was axed, I tried charge events, soliciting donations, etc. I make more in a single week of sales than I earned in months of effort of trying to get people to pay by donation or to sponsor.

The sensible thing would be to teir down but to do that makes me vulnerable to grieving at the events I host. I bought the sim because I was targeted for griefer attacks and I don't think that threat has gone away. Owning the entire sim gave me more ways to control lag also, other than begging neighbours to convert their open listen poseballs or to please not leave running vehicles in buildings. If I sell land in my sim, I destroy the advantage of being able to control lag. If I don't sell land in my sim, I will be subsidizing to an even greater degree the entertainment of others. I'm feeling pretty catch 22 about the thing.

Sofa king wheat tart dead.

lmfao!

Dogspot, you were at the mudwrestling event before. It is interactive, gives prizes, has a dj, and is accessible (as in first time event attendees can do it and get the full benefit of the event). Would you pay for that event? Honestly?

How much money are we talking about and why can't you afford it?

Diverging from the main topic slightly, but addressing the free ride idea....

If SL was like RL you might have a leg to stand on.

In RL I give generously to programs which provide basic necessities to folks - food, clothing, shelter & utilities. I vote to continue safety net programs even though I know they are often badly administered and sometimes abused. That's a human rights issue.

There are no necessities in SL. If you have no $L, you will not starve, freeze, or go naked. SL is entertainment. It is a luxery. It is a luxery I budget for and I don't expect anyone else to pay for. If you don't count ISP fees, it is the most affordable entertainment that I know of.

If you can afford a computer, and broadband, and electricity, and time to be here... then, I have trouble with the argument that you are poor and should be supported.

Yes, it is hard to do without something you want. And American culture supports an idea that we should have everything we want just cause we want it. But if you can't earn it, make it, or exchange a service for it... or marry it, why should you get the results of someone elses labor for free?

I work hard for every $USD and $L that I make. Ferran and I are generous with our land and resources (also time). We have given back to the community in the form of time and free products (I still have the bite marks to show for it). Why should I support, even in a diluted way someone who is unpleasant and thinks they are entitled to my work?

OK.. next post more squarely on topic.

I think you had/have the right idea. The mudwrestling was kinda lame (I mean it's basically canned actions via the poseballs), but the live DJ made it interesting and I had fun. So yeah, I'd pay for it.

Thank you for posting so many things that I've been dying to say, but couldn't

Streaming radio can be good too. I just prefer a live DJ. I makes you feel a bit like you're in a real club. The best times I've had at clubs was when there was a live DJ.

Facts

1: The Di is dead

2: the system has been gamed to death

3: richer more immersive content combined to real money generating revenue streams is the answer to a new rconomy


This is not the death knell of the SL economy but the rebirth of the new stronger more rewarding SL economy. It may hurt it first but in the long run the strong and the creative will survive

GOOD NEWS _ The Dream Builders saw this coming and are prepared for it! Any business needing help please feel free to contact me in world and set up an appointment to review your situation and see how we can help you make the transition to the post DI economy

Not going to happen.

They are playing a *character*, in game, who gets L$50 a week walking around money. That's it. The fact that the character only gets L$50 because it's a free account is irrelevant, that's their budget, that's what they have to work with, that's how they're going to react.

To make the economy work you have to have "free" accounts able to earn money. The reputation bonus gave them a way... if they played their character well, they got money. It's a perfectly valid in-game feedback mechanism, and it makes sense from an economic standpoint.

I feel bad for everyone that is going to be hurt by this change.

However, this change WAS necessary as DI was being badly gamed, taking the platform in a bad direction.

IMHO, SL would have been hurt more by keeping the current DI system in place, than by taking action now to reverse the horrible direction that these AFK "camping chairs," "dance pads," etc., were taking us down.

In the end, I remain optimistic that LL will replace it with something bigger and better. Something that will more closely accomplish the goals of what the DI was suposed to accomplish.

Developer Incentives will NOT go away. It is imperative that LL continue to offer content developers and creators an incentive that will help them advance their platform.

To do anything less, would spell the gradual and ultimate demise of the platform.

OK back on topic.

I've been reading this thread and many good points have been raised. I honestly don't know what the outcome of this decision is going to be. Our business model never included dwell or developers incentives - although ironically we were bit by the "mainland parcel" bug which is why we weren't on the DI list. I'm guessing that some businesses are going to go under. Especially the ones that relied on money chairs, etc. While I won't miss the zombie farms, I do wonder how the drying up of the $L flow into the general population from money chairs is going to affect content creators.

I guess I'm adopting a wait and see attitude. We've ridden out a lot of changes in the past two years and the one thing I've learned about SL is that you have to be flexible because you can't predict what LL will do... or the residents either.

*crosses fingers and hopes for the best*