Stopping Developers Incentive?

That doesn't compute there, Jake. The very people who aren't willing to treat it as a luxury want everything for free, want subsidies, don't want to even pay for a premium account. How does that benefit LL's bottom line? It doesn't at all. They have zero effect on their profitability. You don't just need growth for growth's sake - you need growth that will bring in income - and the flood of free accounts with people unwilling to spend a dime extra isn't helping SL, it's only hurting it. That is the attitude that needs to go away - there has to be at least a baseline of spending on SL by all residents of it for SL to be profitable. I think they need to get rid of basic accounts altogether and make premium accounts more valuable.

Jake, the way I see it is that subsidising through the developer incentive isn't something that can be sustained long term. I was thinking this over last night and realised that, in fact, LL are subsidising twice from their income:

1. The free accounts.
2. The developer incentive.

Now, doesn't there come a time when LL says, "Well look, we're providing the growth, that's our job, getting more people in-world which in turn gives the developers a greater market in which to ply their goods, services, events etc." Surely they need developers that can self-sustain in the long run. I know that's going to go down like a lead balloon with a lot of people, but really we need LL to provide a big enough market and for us to use that market. It's not like that's an unusual way to think about it though, as LL have always said that the users build the world.

Of course, both sides are interested in stickability. So you have to keep the people that arrive, but isn't that really the job of the content developers? Maybe, in the short term, the number of attactions shrink because of this change but maybe, just maybe, in the longer term the attractions that remain will provide more visible quality to the "tourists" (I hate that word, but it seems as good as any to describe people who come here to socialise etc. rather than build or host etc.). And maybe they'll be more professionally run.

Seriously we have to move away from the sense of entitlement that seems to be pervasive in SL. It's not sustainable, but the problem lies in how the transition is made from 100,000 who think they should get free money every week to 1,000,000+ who don't have that attitude.

Millions upon millions of people pay $9.99 a month (at least) to play online games with limited scope and no currency value - they don't get free currency handouts, they don't get access to the wealth of user-created content that they can do here. We need to remove the dross content and get people used to a world where things don't come for free. It costs nothing to join SL now and yet people moan that they're broke in SL when they could actually get access to more Lindens every month for the same price as playing WoW. That's the attitude that LL needs to instill in people, as it will be for the benefit of all.

Well this is all fine and dany but what exactly do you propose people do in SL?

Millions upon millions of people pay $9.99 a month (at least) to play online games with limited scope and no currency value - they don't get free currency handouts, they don't get access to the wealth of user-created content that they can do here. We need to remove the dross content and get people used to a world where things don't come for free. It costs nothing to join SL now and yet people moan that they're broke in SL when they could actually get access to more Lindens every month for the same price as playing WoW. That's the attitude that LL needs to instill in people, as it will be for the benefit of all.

Even with the "modest limit" the problem still arises.

Let's say Chip's worth a 5. (And how exactly you'd manage this "wealth" thing when people are cashing L$ in and out I'm not sure.) He has 10 other businesspeople over. That generates 45 dwell for that night. That is already more dwell than any event for non-business folks can make in equivalent time on a non-private island, because they'd need more than 40 premium members there and that would exceed the sim limit.

If a mall, say, held an event in a mall where business owners could stand and promote their stores, it would shoot into the popularity list no matter how many customers showed up, because all the business owners were there.

Also, is it 1/6 for a Basic account holder, no matter how rich they are?

You've replied 2 minutes after I posted. If you can't be bothered to read my post properly (I mean, come on 2 minutes!) then why on earth should I give a response to this. Your question really makes me think you didn't read what I wrote.

PS. And now you've edited your post adding more. Grrrr, are you blaze? He does that a lot.

Now, doesn't there come a time when LL says, "Well look, we're providing the growth, that's our job, getting more people in-world which in turn gives the developers a greater market in which to ply their goods, services, events etc." Surely they need developers that can self-sustain in the long run. I know that's going to go down like a lead balloon with a lot of people, but really we need LL to provide a big enough market and for us to use that market. It's not like that's an unusual way to think about it though, as LL have always said that the users build the world.

Of course, both sides are interested in stickability. So you have to keep the people that arrive, but isn't that really the job of the content developers? Maybe, in the short term, the number of attactions shrink because of this change but maybe, just maybe, in the longer term the attractions that remain will provide more visible quality to the "tourists" (I hate that word, but it seems as good as any to describe people who come here to socialise etc. rather than build or host etc.). And maybe they'll be more professionally run.

Millions upon millions of people pay $9.99 a month (at least) to play online games with limited scope and no currency value - they don't get free currency handouts, they don't get access to the wealth of user-created content that they can do here. We need to remove the dross content and get people used to a world where things don't come for free. It costs nothing to join SL now and yet people moan that they're broke in SL when they could actually get access to more Lindens every month for the same price as playing WoW. That's the attitude that LL needs to instill in people, as it will be for the benefit of all.

Awwww, you poor people not getting dwell.

First off, I'm a proud camper. I make a small profit a week usually. BUT, I'm putting in 6K a week also.

Second, look at WHO'S doing the camping chair's, the majority are CASINO'S and the one's getting the dwell are the CREATIVE one's. The place's I goto, mostly VGI, you play slot machine's to increase how much you earn. The guy who run's this place doesn't get his money from dwell, he get's it from GAMBLING. It's just a CREATIVE way to make money.

So all you people bitching about camping chair's, just think of a new creative way to get w.e it is you want.

To whoever said get rid of basic account's ... SCREW YOU. I've been a member of SL for over a year and a half now, close to two year's actually. I've been basic account the WHOLE time. I've still managed to make money building and selling thing's. The only people who aren't "contributing" to sl are noobs. Gee, maybe we should just stop new account's all together!

No I am not blaze, yes, I read fast. You post took less than 30seconds to read. I accepted the premise of your post as true and the requested that you tell me what entertainment it is that you would have people pay for.

And I am sorry about the edit, I posted without completing on accident. (I can read, but not type).

I wonder if they will still have dwell numbers showing for each plot of land, to indicate player traffic patterns, or if that will be gone eventually, too...The times, they are always a'changin' in SL.

I agree with you. If you don't enjoy it, don't play it. However, I don't agree that SL's entertainment hinges on being able to buy things. SL is a lot of different things to different people. Personally, I rarely purchase anything preferring to make it, tease my partner into making it, or barter with friends. My second great pleasure in Sl is chatting with my friends, many of whom live a long way away in RL.

I'm sure it is pleasant to be able to buy whatever you like. If that's what you enjoy, then more power to you. What I don't agree with is the idea that anyone should expect me to pay for anyone elses pleasure but my own. That mindset baffles me as it does not reflect any aspect of real life.. at least not for adults. This strange idea that someone is entitled to the results of my hard work because they exist.

Ideally, I think premium accounts should come with a larger stipend. But that has to be balanced against how much that $L can be converted to in $USD. We've already seen how that gets gamed.

For free users, I think if you want to buy stuff, you should expect to spend at the least the equivalent each month of $10 to buy $L. That's about what it would cost you to play a mmorgh where all content is provided. I'd consider that as a cost of playing SL if I didn't want to make stuff.

If people want quality then either they're going to have to pay for it, or those wanting exposure are going to have to pay for it. But that doesn't have to be mean it costs the earth, or it's out of anybody's reach, and it depends on how much they feel they need to be a part of it.

most of the really visible places being steaming piles of piss.

yes. what SL really needs is to get rid of the people. people suck.

Why are people so adverse to paying anything for entertainment in SL?

Why are people so adverse to paying anything for entertainment in SL?

I said it, and I stand behind it. If you are not willing to spend even $9.95 a month on a premium account to help support Linden Lab and Second Life, you are adding nothing. Who cares in LL doesn't have an income right? Well you certainly should, as without it, there would be no Second Life for you to extract wealth from without putting anything into it.

Exactly my point all along. My thought (which from your other posts, I know you disagree, but we are to tegether in principle, if not mechanics). Is that a basic membership does not allow people enough money to live on.

Hell even $500 linden a week is not enogh to live on, not if you want to upload anything like enough textures to make a business work, or but textures in game.

The market , as it is forces participation in the money chair.

You don't just need growth for growth's sake - you need growth that will bring in income - and the flood of free accounts with people unwilling to spend a dime extra isn't helping SL, it's only hurting it. That is the attitude that needs to go away - there has to be at least a baseline of spending on SL by all residents of it for SL to be profitable.

there is some value to simply having more people on SL and making it feel more full, vibrant etc

I said it, and I stand behind it. If you are not willing to spend even $9.95 a month on a premium account to help support Linden Lab and Second Life, you are adding nothing. .

It was LL's descision to offer the account's for free now, not mine, not your's. So get off your high n mighty horse and leave those people alone. Don't say they're worthless to SL just because they chose to sign up with a free account to start off with. And if they were so worthless to SL, why would LL make that choice.