Lindens are gonna buy back telehub land at L$10/m -- Fair?

I do. Yes.

Now see, personally think alot of things in $L would benefit from 'unions' and the like. Especially as it seems Linden Labs keeps pulling more and more of their in house staff away from tending things in world. Lesse, Event $upport? Check. Developers Incentive, hmm...check. Forum $upport? Hmm, deffinately a check there unless you're counting the generic responses that don't answer much of anything. But, suppose they have to arrange priorities, and they really do need those $taffers on the important task of counting money.

So, in lieu of Linden support on various things, rather think it would be an interesting project to tend alot of these things in a content provider run system. Make stuff? Band together and rail away next time you get some of the myriad glitches that screw off your sales line. Or hey, band together and run the guy who's making near duplicates of whatever designs people are currently selling. Collective bargaining power and ad power is a great thing. Club owners? Band together and set common grounds in the new DIless world. General event guidelines, 'cover charges', you name it. Alot of things can be accomplished with the right organization.

And then, $L can truly be the 'digital country' they mention now and then. As we band together and rise up against our Linden overlords! And now that I've made my union spiel, which yeah wrong forum I know lol. But now, I humbly wait for the Linden Cosa Nostra to Hoffa me beneath Candlestick Park.


Today's episode of Linden Lane has been brought to you by the letter $.

Linden Labs's (limited) telehub land buy back program is a very good thing--it's also the right thing. Personally, it makes me feel a lot better about them as a company, and restores some of the confidence in them that I had lost. Remember that:

1) Telehub sims were promoted by LL as TELEHUB sims and were assigned (by LL) a higher starting price at auction, and
2) Representatives of LL made public statements LL had no plans to eliminate telehubs.

It is unfair to say that the buyers of telehub land during the August 1st and December 8th, 2005 period were foolishly speculating in land. They relied--in good faith--on the clear representations of Linden Labs as to the value of the land they were buying.

Nor should Linden Labs offer of compensation be completely unexpected. In Robin Linden's original announcement on the introduction of point-to-point teleporting, he stated:


The "infohubs" have not exactly caught on fire a public gathering spaces, and LL has had enough trouble with correctly calculating and delivering traffic/dwell payments over the past month or so, that adding another layer of complexity to that process would have been unwise. The land buy back offer LL has made is probably the simplest way to implement to any sort of monetary compensation to the affected landowners.

No significant L$ inflation is likely to be triggered by the land buy back program, either. While buying back the land will act as a source of L$ into the economy, when LL auctions off the repurchased land, it will likely be a L$ auction (as is the norm with smaller plots). The L$ spent at those auctions will flow out of the economy, resulting in only a small increase in the overall money supply.

The only problem I have with LL's buy back program is that, under it, there is no way of compensating people who bought telehub land at auction, and then sold it shortly after the original announcement at a steep loss. Though, in their defense, I can't really think of a practical way to implement such compensation.

Thank you, Linden Labs, for doing the right thing.

My point is that LL seems to cling to the idea that SL is some sort of giant social experiment.

Now, as an on topic message in all this. Personally I don't think this is fair at all. Granted, to some it can be viewed as a 'nice gesture'. But the simple end of it is this. In the time frame that Linden Labs has offered for the buy back of hub lands, well anyone who bought it via a land broker would be insane to sell it back to Linden Labs for that. They would take a horrible wash considering what most of them bought the land at, price wise. And since new land is only auctioned by Linden Labs as full sim now, means that not many people bought it off auction for personal use. But guess what. Certain land barons did.

And for them, yeah. That $10L/m is a damn nice thing. They're not going to hit the profit margin they were planning, and that hub land is going to sit for sale for ages. So they make their money back, AND dump tier. So, yet again I see another case of money talking and the 'little guy' being handed a stick of mesquite and pretty much being told, 'Please use this to liberally F yourself. We're aware of the problem, and working diligently to resolve it. Thank you!'

SO yeah. This 'buy back' is a token gesture at best, that doesn't do anyone a bit of good. At least not the ones who got hit the hardest by it all. And no, I don't happen to own any telehub land. But then, I don't have to be an artist to comment on art, right?



And PS, no. I haven't done much forum posting. But thats because at one time, I could actually interact in SL. Just seems the lagier and glitchier it gets, the more time I have my head here in forums, heh.

1. For those criticizing Infinite for giving his/her opinion - if you actually read Infinite's posts you would see they contain sound thinking. You're just telling her "shut up and go away NOOB" because you don't like what she's saying. If she were agreeing with you, you wouldn't be saying that.

2. For people who feared that this would create that famous slippery slope and open the door to other people then demanding their reparations, you were sure quick to mount (with pictures) such a campaign yourself, therefore making it a self-fulfilling prophecy between the time I left this thread last night and read it this afternoon.

3. Katykiwi did indeed explain the difference between reparations for telehub land and reparations for all and sundry else back on page 5.

I don't have any trouble at all understanding that a bug that wipes out some inventory (or messes up its permissions) is a different thing from LL sitting on information, and taking actual US money for people who are paying higher for telehub land because they think it IS telehub land, while LL rakes in more dough than they would have had the truth been known. So - LL is SITTING ON KNOWLEDGE that people are wasting their money - and wasting it in LL's direction. (Correct me if I have any of that scenario wrong).

4. Then there are those who didn't buy it directly from LL, but from others. I'm not sure the answer is anywhere in here for them, but do they get those reparations as well? I would hope so.

Remember, there are all those people who bought smaller parcels near telehubs for smaller amounts of money than the large auction buyers, and they, too have suffered an unnecessary loss.

F. Now I agree that not all things are black and white, but I'm a content creator, and I just don't see that loss of content (or muck-ups on the permissions) due to unintended accidents is anywhere near the same as deliberately sitting on info and allowing people to still purchase what they think is one thing, and you knew full well was another.

coco

P.S. I take back that last paragraph, because we don't know exactly when the Lindens decided/knew that there would be no more telehubs. So they may not have been sitting on the information long at ALL. So that screws that line of reasoning. However, it still stands that they had the power to change the rules of the game, and the power to purposely cause people who had given them large amounts of money for telehub land to then suffer a loss. They exercised that power, and now reparations are in order.

God forbid a for profit company should seek to profit. They're not running a charity after all and I assume they'd kinda like to stay in business.

\
Thank you for your simplistic, innacurate commentary. Let's see, Infinte comes into a thread and describes people he or she does not even know as whining, self serving people who have had their toys taken away, take the internet way too seriously, and need to get out more. It is your opinion that they contain sound thinking because you agree with it - if she were disagreeing with you, you wouldn't be saying that. Notice Dogspot's response - it is exactly what I am talking about. I didn't tell them to shut up and go away - I said that you should actually know a little bit of what you are talking about before you just openly criticize people for it. Shut up and go away noob is your own biased spin on it.

consistency, clarity, and a reputation for intelligent and well-thought out development plans, corporate (customer service) policies and behaviors.

Oh wait.

My World. My Imagination.

Sorry... I forgot about that - I'm living in a dreamworld called Second Life.

^ actual quote

The auctions did not start off at the same base price as any sim auction started? What was the starting price for telehub sims?

Yes, of Cocoanut Koala, not me.

I didn't read all the replies because... I really don't care what they say.

I just wanted to put my two cents in here in case somebody at LL actually read these things (i'm kidding myself, I know), or in case someone cares what an "average" player thinks. But anyway...

I'm dissappointed that LL is buying back this land. It goes against the whole purpose of "investing" it's like Dow Jones reimbursing people that made a bad investment, it's just silly.

I hope they are prepared to reimburse anyone who is is unhappy with ANY of the steps they make to improve and progress the game in the future now. This is a bad precedent they have set up for themselves.

Also, LL has a lot of issues that need some attention, and for them to pick this one to act on really disappoints me.

Yes, but Coco. The same exact thing could be said in regards to the avatar mapping thing that was mentioned earlier in this thread. An intentional change that effected profitability. As far as them marketing those sims as telehub sims. Well, at the time they were. So, thats a fair assessment of what they are. What I don't recall though, is anywhere in those Hub Sales Linden Labs putting a disclaimer stating, 'Hey. Buy this land for $X US dollars, and you can in turn sell it for Z% profit margin.' See, that would be a problem. But don't recall that being the case. And well, thats part of RL land sales. Disclosure is required for known defects of said property. Not for things around the property that are not part of the transaction. LL did absolutely nothing to the property, nor did they change it. Last I knew, Telehubs were Linden owned. The parcel they were on was NOT part of the auctioned land.

So really, what you're looking at here is, say, Disney selling off a strip of land in Orlando. People pay the premium from Disney, because of the location. Then, month or two down the road Disney decides to close down. So, what. Going to throw a fit at Disney for reducing your property value?

Okay. You're right. The end is nigh.

Reactionary mathematics:

99 good things - 1 bad thing = er, hey wait a minute. Is that 1 purple?! God I hate purple! Purple makes me so mad! That does it, the other 99 things are nul and void!

I do hope they post a total number of takers and a total amount of money created and added into the economy. I believe they'll both be remarkably small figures.

That’s some great belittling you have working there.

I did not intend to come off as offensive in my posts and I think anyone with half a layer of skin would not find them so. I am simply stating that all this drama in this thread is for nothing. LL will still pay those telehub people, you content folks will not be reimbursed for old bugs, and this thread will eventually die. Just because you want something bad enough does not make it happen, let it go.

You can wrap up my words and sell them as something else and maybe that works for you, but I don’t need to stoop that low. An honest opinion is what I have shared on what I’m reading here. I’m sorry you don’t like it.

lol pfft, out of context quotes are fair game.

You're right - if she were disagreeing with me, I wouldn't be saying that!

That's kinda my point.

coco

Whiners.. desperate.. self-serving.. selfish... need to go outside... take the internet too seriously... condescending prick.

Oh wait, that last one was mine.

Just a half a layer of skin?

Hey, I'm ALL for a business making profit. Thats the name of it afterall. Just as long as they take a business stance, and have uniform policy and practice like a real business. Not a personal playground where the rules are subject to change and do so regularly and often in contradiction.

See, I don't mind them saying flat out, 'Look. This is the way we do business. You can work with it, or take your business elsewhere.' I DO however have an issue when they hype up the whole 'Your world. Your imagination.' deal, and how important feedback and ideas are, and then back door ya like a 20 to lifer in the Prison shower.

Like I said. Business is great. Just handle it like one.

If protesting about how Linden Lab has consistently treated its customers brings about any kind of change at all, then it is worthwhile. Enough people have been repeatedly damaged financially without any recourse that really this issue is just an impetus for fairer treatment and protections. It is not to undo the land payments, which will continue forward. It is to bring recognition to the fact that many many people have taken risks and been harmed, and that singling out one group of people to shield from that just adds insult to injury.

My opinion of your words is my opinion of it - you don't get to to dictate whether or not your words are offensive to someone else. You are certainly entitled to express it - but people can also respond to that opinion. My skin is perfectly thick - I was not hurt by opinion, as it does not matter to me in the slightest - I was just stating my own response to it. How is it that you can give an opinion, but not take one in return?

Just assume that is their stance. If at some point you benefit from them going the extra mile, consider it a bonus. Problem solved

You hate it when people condescend to you, but you seem to be fine with it being done to others. My point was that just telling people how whiny et al. they are (notice Jonquille's summary) isn't about the issue, it's about the people expressing it - something you are also such an advocate supposedly against.