i have no problem with this... life's too short... i'd rather laugh at suezanneC's jokes
The date limits are within reason, and as katykiwi said, LL was pocketing money while working on code they didn't disclose (of course that only applies to new hubs auctioned for US$ I suppose, and it sounds like they are compensating folks for any and all hub purchases within the date). Anyway, that's a far cry from implementing a feature that impacts someone's business model.
I don't really see this as a precendent but i have no doubt that the next little change(s) will see a wave of people demanding compensation (for LL to ignore)
i'm curious if this is being paid out by newly created L$ or if LL will pay for it by using US$ received to buy L$ on lindex's open market... i have a feeling i know which one it is and I suppose if i was a startup fighting for profitability i'd do the same lol
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Lindens are gonna buy back telehub land at L$10/m -- Fair? |
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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12-30-2005 01:03
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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12-30-2005 01:36
What is the FIC? How do they relate to Linden Labs?
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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12-30-2005 06:26
What is the mysterious, elusive formula for getting what you want from LL? Whining. Loudly and incessantly. Expect a lot more of it in 2006.
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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12-30-2005 06:55
This appears to be a break with tradition. Around October of 2004 there was a bug that caused the content of sale boxes for many content creators to become full copy/mod/transfer. This Linden bug caused a tremendous amount of content creator's items to become public domain and resulted in huge losses for me and others. Back then, the Lindens said they would not provide any sort of reparations ... and we accepted that. It would appear that we were too accommodating. It looks like screaming, hollering, and taking ads asking users to turn their backs on Linden Lab is what we SHOULD have done. Now we know. A-f*cking-men! No, I'm not still pissed.. </sarcasm off> _____________________
Surreal
Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43) |
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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12-30-2005 07:13
I havent decided to scream or extort in 2006 to make money. But I thank LL for the diverse options available.
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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12-30-2005 07:20
I havent decided to scream or extort in 2006 to make money. But I thank LL for the diverse options available. Why limit yourself to one option, do both! _____________________
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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12-30-2005 07:21
What is the mysterious, elusive formula for getting what you want from LL? Whining. Loudly and incessantly. Expect a lot more of it in 2006. I had hoped this WASN'T the forumla. But if Linden Lab is telling us that "Whining. Loudly and incessantly" is how users get what they want, then I will adjust my disposition accordingly. The next time content creators suffer losses from Linden actions, I will lead a charge the likes of which SL has never seen before until our losses are repaid. Also, if this buyback offer continues, I fully intend to start a major campaign to secure reparations for the Oct 2004 content privileges bug, and losses suffered by scripters when security vulnerabilities made their scripts public domain. "Turn your back on Governor Linden" will seem like childs play compared to what I have in store. _____________________
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ZsuZsanna Raven
~:+: Supah Kitteh :+:~
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,361
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12-30-2005 07:21
Seems people will complain about anything. If they didn't offer to buy back then people would complain...and now they have offered to buy back and people still bitch...
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~Mewz!~
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Chris Wilde
Custom User Title
Join date: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 768
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12-30-2005 07:27
Seems people will complain about anything. If they didn't offer to buy back then people would complain...and now they have offered to buy back and people still bitch... Is this a complaint?  |
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ZsuZsanna Raven
~:+: Supah Kitteh :+:~
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,361
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12-30-2005 07:46
Is this a complaint? Nope, a statement. Just tired of seeing the forums filled with so much negativity all the time. People don't seem Happy about much anymore... _____________________
~Mewz!~
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Ricky Zamboni
Private citizen
Join date: 4 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,080
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12-30-2005 07:50
Around October of 2004 there was a bug that caused the content of sale boxes for many content creators to become full copy/mod/transfer. This Linden bug caused a tremendous amount of content creator's items to become public domain and resulted in huge losses for me and others. Back then, the Lindens said they would not provide any sort of reparations ... and we accepted that. It would appear that we were too accommodating. It looks like screaming, hollering, and taking ads asking users to turn their backs on Linden Lab is what we SHOULD have done. Not to be too pedantic here, but when you clicked through the TOS you agreed that they could make all your inventory and created content public domain. All they have to do is label it a "promotion", and they effectively have the right to take whatever they like and distribute it as they wish. I'm guessing they can cover their collective asses over the mod-copy-transfer bugs that way. By uploading/creating content, you have granted Linden " a royalty-free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service" (SL Terms of Service, Sec 5.3) -- this includes giving full-permission copies of your content away to all and sundry for free. They can't be held liable because "You agree that your creation of Content is not in any way based upon any expectation of compensation from Linden" (SL Terms of Service, Sec 6.2). Sure, it sucks, but they have been able to get you to agree that what they've done is 100% a-ok. In another thread, Chip said, I don't have any allusions [sic] about the life expectancy of any product or service I might offer. I do it for the challenge first, the fun second, and the profit last. to which Aimee responded, It's good we comb through the TOS so we know exactly where we stand when we make our business decisions. If some people are scared off from opening a business in SL for fear Linden Lab will actually wontonly perform some of the worst case scenarios that the TOS technically allows them ... well more cake for Chip and I. Of course, the extreme limit of "life expectancy" of product is zero and the ToS has stated clearly for many months that Linden can do whatever they like with your content, so there's really no reason for anyone to gripe about any builds, textures, scripts, etc. getting put into the public domain by an "undocumented feature" of the SL interface... --- 5.3 Participant Content Ownership and License Terms, Including Participant Representations and Warranties. Participants can create Content on Linden's servers in various forms. Linden acknowledges and agrees that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, including without limitation the limited licenses granted by you to Linden herein, you will retain any and all applicable copyright and/ or other intellectual property rights with respect to any Content you create using the Service. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden: (a) a royalty-free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service; (b) the perpetual and irrevocable right to delete any or all of your Content from Linden's servers and from the Service, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and for any reason or no reason, without any liability of any kind to you or any other party; and (c) a royalty- free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing and/or providing support services in connection with the Service. You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden and to all other Participants a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for all purposes within the Service. You further agree that you will not make any claims against Linden or against other Participants based on any allegations that any activites by either of the foregoing within the Service infringe your (or anyone else's) patent rights. You further understand and agree that: (i) you are solely responsible for understanding all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and other intellectual property or other laws that may apply to your Content hereunder; (ii) you are solely responsible for, and Linden will have no liability in connection with, the legal consequences of any actions or failures to act on your part while using the service, including without limitation any legal consequences relating to your intellectual property rights; and (iii) Linden's acknowledgement hereunder of your intellectual property rights in your Content does not constitute a legal opinion or legal advice, but is intended solely as an expression of Linden's intention not to require Participants to forego certain intellectual property rights with respect to Content they create using the Service, subject to the terms specified herein. shortly followed by, 6.2 Rights in Content. You acknowledge that Linden and other Content Providers have rights in their respective Content under copyright and other applicable laws and treaty provisions, that they retain all such rights and that you accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Content in violation of any such rights. You agree that your creation of Content is not in any way based upon any expectation of compensation from Linden. |
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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History lessons and precedence...
12-30-2005 07:51
Having read some concerns over the setting of precedence and a little waxing nostalgic over the good old days of teamwork between LL and SL residents, I thought I'd bring forward a passage from the old days. I've been doing background research on a mystery presented in this forum this week and the following exchange stood out.
One poster states: "...the land value is extreamely high in those sims because of that fact. I payed over 5 times what I should have to have the same amount of land in Tan as I had back in immaculate. That fact is the reason the worlds are connected as they are. If it changes, I expect to be reimbursed, since the land value will drop significantly." He is responded to with this: "you get reimbursed what you paid for it. when we changed to the land system we have now, i made about 3k selling and rebuying my land because i bought it at ahigher price(reimbursed in full)." Huh. It sure sounds like land purchase price was guaranteed and in fact some people even sold and rebought their own parcels with the intent of pocketing the difference in value at LL's expense. (Would that be called gaming the system?) I did not know that. Did you? _____________________
hush
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
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12-30-2005 08:15
Can anyone say they're really surprised? LL has a spectacularly bad track record when it comes to making smart decisions and this is just another stellar example. LL can't find it's collective ass with both of it's (virtual) hands most days. It wouldn't surprise me one bit, if this whole refund thing is the result of threatened legal action. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that SL is doomed. G*#damn if this isn't identical to several posts by the pro-compensation people a few weeks ago. If it hasn't been already, someones got to code a Doombot for this forum, just to save certain posters the time and effort. |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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12-30-2005 08:18
Ricky, Linden Lab is no more legally obligated to pay back content creators for making our goods public domain than they are legally obligated to pay back landowners for losses due to policy changes. I am not claiming ANY legal rights here.
Rather, I'm noting that landowners are getting reparations as a result of how they conducted themselves. I would have preferred Linden Lab not reward that kind of behavior, but if they are comfortable with it, content creators all over SL are prepared to emulate the steps it takes to get the same treatment. I hope this clears up any confusion. _____________________
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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12-30-2005 08:21
If it hasn't been already, someones got to code a Doombot for this forum, just to save certain posters the time and effort. _____________________
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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12-30-2005 08:24
Maybe landowners are getting reparations as a result of how LL conducted themselves in countless interviews in which they presented SL as a land of financial opportunity.
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hush
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-30-2005 08:28
Maybe landowners are getting reparations as a result of how LL conducted themselves in countless interviews in which they presented SL as a land of financial opportunity. If that were the case, it wouldn't only be land owners that were given the respect of compensation for a Linden screw-up. Then again, after the change in the auction system, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise to see how far LL has crammed themselves up the big spenders asses. _____________________
Little Rebel Designs
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
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12-30-2005 08:30
Also, a spell checker for user titles might be nice. Or are you being ironical? Luciftias? |
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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12-30-2005 08:32
Luciftias? _____________________
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Shadow Garden
Just horsin' around
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 226
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12-30-2005 08:36
Rather, I'm noting that landowners are getting reparations as a result of how they conducted themselves. I would have preferred Linden Lab not reward that kind of behavior... This concerns me as well. Caving in at this point is just BEGGING for more of the same from each and every other person who, in the future, believes they have a reason to be compensated for their in-game loss. Can't you just see LL having to increase staffing because of all the requests for investigations about this loss or some other loss? *shakes head* Not a good thing. Yes, I understand that some people got suckered into buying high dollar land near telehubs. Yes, I think it is unfortunate. Yes, it is wonderful that LL is trying to make it up to those people. But by doing this, they are opening up a large unexplored area that I hope they are prepared to navigate through. _____________________
"Ah, ignorance and stupidity all in the same package ... How efficient of you!" - Londo Molari, Babylon V.
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Infinite Somme
Member
Join date: 4 Dec 2005
Posts: 51
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12-30-2005 08:38
Linden Lab is no more legally obligated to pay back content creators for making our goods public domain than they are legally obligated to pay back landowners for losses due to policy changes. I am not claiming ANY legal rights here. Rather, I'm noting that landowners are getting reparations as a result of how they conducted themselves. I would have preferred Linden Lab not reward that kind of behavior, but if they are comfortable with it, content creators all over SL are prepared to emulate the steps it takes to get the same treatment. I hope this clears up any confusion. I thought this was explained already in this thread. The losses in the past that affected you were caused by bugs. LL does not purposely release bugs and is not liable for them. You were not compensated for your losses because LL does not owe you anything. I hope this clears up any confusion. |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-30-2005 08:41
And the cases where LL releases a new sim, thereby lowering the value of the 'edge-of-the-world' sim land? And the cases where LL has sold previously Protected Land that they said they would not be selling, thereby lowering the value of the land it surrounded?
Were those bugs too? I thought this was explained already in this thread. The losses in the past that affected you were caused by bugs. LL does not purposely release bugs and is not liable for them. You were not compensated for your losses because LL does not owe you anything. I hope this clears up any confusion. _____________________
Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas |
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Infinite Somme
Member
Join date: 4 Dec 2005
Posts: 51
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12-30-2005 08:46
^^
Let it go. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. |
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-30-2005 08:48
^^ Let it go. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. I'll take that as a "No, but I'm sure there's some other good reason they deserve it and no one else does." And actually, I can have my cake and eat it too. What I can't do is eat my cake and have it too. That is, if LL had ever given me cake. _____________________
Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas |
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Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
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12-30-2005 08:48
looking at the title of the thread all I can say is "Bad Idea"
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"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
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