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Escorts: SL Definition

Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
08-07-2005 14:49
From: Snowcrash Hoffman
Exactly! Here is the scientific definition of sex for you : sex is one of two specimen categories of species that recombine their genetic material in order to reproduce in a process called genetic recombination. Gosh, do we need to invite Bill Clinton here to tell you what sex IS ? :)


By this definition, sex between two people of the same gender isn't sex at all. Or any number of other forms of sexual intercourse.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
08-07-2005 15:16
From: Hiro Pendragon
I would recommend seeing a reading tutor. I never said all were. I said most were. The poll shows that my perception matches the public's perception.


I'd tell you what I'd recommend for you, but I'm sure you can figure it out. And since you seem to be having trouble remembering what you said, let's review:

From: Hiro Pendragon
So basically, even though it's blatantly obvious that "escort" means "sex for sale", it's not against TOS?


You can find the original here: /invalid_link.html well, until he edits it as he has others to try and avoid things.

From: Hiro Pendragon
If you have a problem with the public, take it up with more than just me.


Nice try, but you fail once more to shift the matter from the one who initiated it -- you.

You think it is 'blatently' obvious... even though you were told very bluntly that you were offbase. Rather than accept you were wrong, you chose to insist you knew better than the initial poster or pretty much anyone else. An issue you seem unable to shake here. Telling, I think.

From: HIro Pendragon
I find it highly amusing that you can't read the poll's numbers.


Kindly refer to my initial response to this, your on-going attempt to worm your way out from admitting you stepped in it:

/108/8f/56643/1.html#post596361

Regardless your interesting, albeit futile efforts to paint it otherwise, it remains that busting on a 'help wanted' ad because you dislike what may or may be happening is wrong. It remains that you were wrong to do it. And it remains that the more you try and distract from this simple truth, the more obvious it becomes that you are attempting to do so.

In particular, the following... It isn't about whether or not 10, 20, 50, or 100% of the folks who respond to this poll think as you do, or as I do, or whatever. It is about the reality that, regardless of what we like or dislike or think, doing what you did over there is just not right.

I wonder why it is you have such a hard time admitted when you've done something wrong. By now, it certainly isn't as if anyone reading doesn't know.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
08-07-2005 15:18
I need a 'who gives a flying fuck' option....

Then again, this is Second Life.. and escort could give a flying fuck I guess....

Hmmmm

(back to pondering)
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From: Jesse Linden
I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
08-07-2005 15:24
From: Siggy Romulus
I need a 'who gives a flying fuck' option....

Then again, this is Second Life.. and escort could give a flying fuck I guess....

Hmmmm

(back to pondering)


I'd use that option. Then again, I wouldn't have made the poll at all. I'm secure enough in my literacy that I don't need others to agree with me. (grin)
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
08-07-2005 16:06
From: Siggy Romulus
I need a 'who gives a flying fuck' option....

Then again, this is Second Life.. and escort could give a flying fuck I guess....

Hmmmm

(back to pondering)


roflmao i love it Siggy ty ty ty i needed a good laugh!

from what i hear the FF will be an addition 1k payable before services are rendered :D

Cat
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
08-07-2005 16:16
I like the idea of having escorts around like gangster molls.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
08-07-2005 16:20
From: Hiro Pendragon
And you bring up an excellent point - the person is now spending 1000L for a basic skin, or several thousand for a nice custom skin, money for clothing, etc ... and where is the money now? Sure, buying the uniform, I understand.


You totally ignored the fact that a portion of that post was made in jest. Most escorts try to look attractive, and the definition of attractiveness is an varied as the defintion of escort is.
Since many escorts are newbies, they would buy a new skin regardless of what they job was.

From: Hiro Pendragon
Do you recommend "a new skin and a sexy little thong" to all your employees who "may or may not" be engaging in sexual conversation? From your description, it does not sound very likely that your use of "escort" is anything but sexual in nature.

No, I don't recommend any particular look to anyone bc as I have said, everyone has a definition of what is attractive. An escort can be anything, and if you insist that it is ONLY sexual, then I better contact a few gentlemen to give them a refund, as they only paid me to chat with them.

From: Hiro Pendragon
And I dare you to challenge that a thong and a new skin as a uniform is not sexual.

Referring to a new skin and thong as a uniform is probably the most retarded thing I have read in recent years, and also probably quite offensive to those who purchase both, yet are not escorts. And I should remember to put on my Barbie skin and granny panties the next time I sit in on a Senate meeting, so I'm not mistaken for a prostitute instead of an intelligent feamle.

From: Hiro Pendragon
Look at the poll. It's clear that 85% of people believe "escorts" in SL mean sex for sale. 10% believe there's about a 50% chance it's sex for sale. I think it's very clear what you are advertising when you want to hire "escorts".


Yes, it was very clear what I was advertising when I posted that I wanted to hire escorts to work in a nightclub. I advertised open employee opportunities. I was not advertising sex for sale. Everyone but you understands the difference.


From: Hiro Pendragon
I just hate spammers, and that's what making bad event posts in. Take a look through the forums, and you'll see a host of people complaining that their events are lost in a sea of spam events - yard sales that arent' there, plain old advertisements of products filling up events, 24/7 activities billed as events ... and into employment opp classified - you have a lot of good jobs, but seeing spam creep in is just a pet peeve.


I would be the first to complain about spam. My post for newspaper positions was buried. But I had a job to do -- finding escorts to work at the club -- and I used the appropriate means to do so. Also, you fail to take into consideration that the spam stays at the top longer bc many ppl are more interested in jobs that require minimal time and participation instead of jobs where they might actually have to put forth some energy.

What really irritates and frustrates me is that you started this in another section of the forum, and when that thread was locked, you started a poll here. Why do you have this need to prove to the whole (SL) world that it is you who are right, and everyone else who is wrong?
The majority of the posts in the other thread and this one disagree with you, yet you still can't drop it. I wish you would. If you FEEL you are right, you shouldn't have to convince everyone else.
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Barnesworth Anubis
Is about to cry!
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
08-07-2005 23:59
From: Lo Jacobs


But: it's not hurting anyone. I think we could all use a little more sex, virtual or otherwise.



what the world needs now is love sweet love its the only thing that there is just too little of

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
08-08-2005 00:10
From: Katt Kongo


What really irritates and frustrates me is that you started this in another section of the forum, and when that thread was locked, you started a poll here. Why do you have this need to prove to the whole (SL) world that it is you who are right, and everyone else who is wrong?
The majority of the posts in the other thread and this one disagree with you, yet you still can't drop it. I wish you would. If you FEEL you are right, you shouldn't have to convince everyone else.


Extremely well said, bravo.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
08-08-2005 00:32
I'm not going to comment on the subject, but I would like to say that I enjoy threads on supposedly controversial subjects like this immensely, because usually they simply reinforce that the people I already have extremely low opinions of deserve my contempt entirely.

And yeah, for the record I do take it inworld :) So if I think you're a pretty dense, bigotted low life scum PoS on the forums, I think you are in world too!
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Jesse Murdock
Moves You
Join date: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 149
08-08-2005 02:08
From: Kris Ritter
I'm not going to comment on the subject, but I would like to say that I enjoy threads on supposedly controversial subjects like this immensely, because usually they simply reinforce that the people I already have extremely low opinions of deserve my contempt entirely.

And yeah, for the record I do take it inworld :) So if I think you're a pretty dense, bigotted low life scum PoS on the forums, I think you are in world too!


...holding side... gasping for breath...

OMG ... LMFAO
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
08-08-2005 02:15
thas my girl! <beams proudly like only a mummy can>
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter

From: Neehai Zapata
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time.

just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
08-08-2005 02:16
From: Madiera Westerburg
thas my girl! <beams proudly like only a mummy can>


Thas cuz I know you'll protect me mom :D

*hides behind moms skirt*
a lost user
Join date: ?
Posts: ?
08-08-2005 08:43
WOW! This girl did not realize this was such a controversial topic. She has only been playing this game one week, and was in need of a job, and is very greatful she ran into Blayze her second day, who was kind enough to direct this girl to Tony Hart who hired her as a dancer/escort and his club Dark Secrets, now simply the Sex Club. This girl is very greatful to him and has been having a lot of fun. The reason anyone plays any game is for fun. When the fun stops, they stop playing.

This girl has fun by role-playing. This girl may be under-paid as a dancer and escort by first-life standards, but this girl lives in a $700,00 house in first life. This girl is not here in second-life to make money. This girl is here to explore the different life syles she might have had, if she had made different choises early in her first-life. This game in second-life is like living in a book, being the main character of a novel, this girl does not care of the money, this girl is interested in the story. That she got a job and is meeting people and making friends and already loving her new second life is the important thing, the priceless chance to be someone else than first life reality has give her.

The sex , the money, the dancing, it is not what this girl is here for, this girl is here to live second life role-play, and those are a part of it, but the role play is the goal, and that gives meaning and purpose and fun to everything.

This girl is sad that people wish to take away her fun, stop her from role play and living in fantacy life that real first life she chose not to. This is a safe world to engage these activities and fantacies, for all the first-life reasons of abuse, VD, aids, etc. Nobody can harm me or abuse me in first life from second life. It is this girl's choice to play her role and do it well, and have fun. Some people say that they don't role play and they are the same people in first life as they are in second life. This girl feels sorry for them, as they try to bring first life rules and laws into this second life world. There is no second life for them, just 1 life in 2 places. This girl feels they do not have as much fun as she does. This girl is not here to win anything, nore to make money, she is here for role-play fun. If more people would just use this wonderful tool LL has created to make thier own dreams come true and stop critizing the people who are already living thier dreams, this discussion would never have happened.

This girl asks that you people who wish to pull first life rules into second life fantacy stay out of second life and remain in your booring first life and leave us alone here in second life to live out our dreams undisturbed by first life rules.

Lovepeace
Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
08-08-2005 09:40
Escort implies sex. Furthermore it implies you can pay for sex as opposed to coming up with some line of bs about how your spouse is perfectly ok with what ever you do on th internet cause its not real sex.
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Katiahnya Muromachi
Ninja Mistress
Join date: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 130
08-08-2005 10:42
From: Buster Peel

I'm going to start an escort service called "Hiro's Sleazy Sluts". Catchy name.

From: Hiro Pendragon
Great! Let me know where I can send the paypal ID so you can send me the profits. ;)


I don't mean to threadjack, and this is not a flame, but I'm just curious if you made this post requesting royalty payments as an allusion that you still own the trademark/copyright to the term "Hiro" in SL? Again, don't take this as an attack, I'm just curious of your post-mortem position based on that discussion.
Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
08-08-2005 10:44
From: Cienna Samiam
I'd tell you what I'd recommend for you, but I'm sure you can figure it out.

*Hiro runs off to invent a machine that removes the part of Cienna's brain that controls posting personal attacks on the forums*

From: someone
And since you seem to be having trouble remembering what you said, let's review:

Out of context. That was not only over a year ago, but I also, in the thread, clarify myself and say that I was making a blanket statement.

From: someone
Nice try, but you fail once more to shift the matter from the one who initiated it -- you.

Regardless of who initiated what, I was responding to your personal attack:
"But here -- a remedy for you -- If you are as sensitive to that reality as you are to the one that not all escorts are hookers".
You stated that it was *my* opinion that all escorts are hookers. This is not only incorrect, as previously stated, but the opinion that escorts always/almost always mean hookers is one that has been shared by the community at large, as the poll suggests.

From: someone

You think it is 'blatently' obvious... even though you were told very bluntly that you were offbase.

Straw man. You're trying to base your comments on the assumption that I think all escorts are prostitutes. This is not the case. See above comments.

From: someone

Regardless your interesting, albeit futile efforts to paint it otherwise, it remains that busting on a 'help wanted' ad because you dislike what may or may be happening is wrong. It remains that you were wrong to do it. And it remains that the more you try and distract from this simple truth, the more obvious it becomes that you are attempting to do so.

Your opinion, you're free to state it. You're incorrect, but you're free to state it.

From: someone
In particular, the following... It isn't about whether or not 10, 20, 50, or 100% of the folks who respond to this poll think as you do, or as I do, or whatever. It is about the reality that, regardless of what we like or dislike or think, doing what you did over there is just not right.

If that's the case, you've done the exact same thing in this thread by going off-topic.
Please pause a minute and consider how much vindictive comments you've made toward me for something you claim I did, that you're doing yourself now.

From: someone
I wonder why it is you have such a hard time admitted when you've done something wrong. By now, it certainly isn't as if anyone reading doesn't know.

Again, I've debated the assumption that I have. I don't think you've presented yourself clearly, and by now you've spewed so many personal attacks against me that your arguments are undercut.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
08-08-2005 10:49
From: Jake Reitveld
Escort implies sex. Furthermore it implies you can pay for sex as opposed to coming up with some line of bs about how your spouse is perfectly ok with what ever you do on th internet cause its not real sex.

So now all escorts are married by default?
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Seldon Metropolitan
Zen Taxi Driver
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 376
08-08-2005 10:50
no it implies that all the people that pay for sex are married.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
08-08-2005 10:52
From: Nolan Nash
So now all escorts are married by default?



I read that to mean the customer was the married one.
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
08-08-2005 10:53
From: Seldon Metropolitan
no it implies that all the people that pay for sex are married.
Either way, it's based on at least one one assumption. I guess assumptions are a fad these days.

Anyone selling hula-hoops?

And wow! Some of you folks are quick! :p
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Seldon Metropolitan
Zen Taxi Driver
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 376
08-08-2005 10:56
From: Nolan Nash
Either way, it's based on at least one one assumption. I guess assumptions are a fad these days.

Anyone selling hula-hoops?

And wow! Some of you folks are quick! :p



you know, for kids!
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
08-08-2005 11:01
From: Lovepeace Languish
This girl asks that you people who wish to pull first life rules into second life fantacy stay out of second life and remain in your booring first life and leave us alone here in second life to live out our dreams undisturbed by first life rules.

Lovepeace



who's that girl?
Seldon Metropolitan
Zen Taxi Driver
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 376
08-08-2005 11:02
marlo thomas, I believe.
Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
08-08-2005 11:09
mmmm, tag team.
From: Katt Kongo
You totally ignored the fact that a portion of that post was made in jest.

Okay, it didn't come off in jest to me. /shrug

From: someone
Most escorts try to look attractive, and the definition of attractiveness is an varied as the defintion of escort is.

Ah... c'mon... most clubbers in SL, especially dancers and escorts, pretty much have a similar type of AV - ultra-hot, barbie doll, big breasts. There are variations, sure, but I doubt you'll find many truly counter-examples. I dunno where you're going with this, though...
From: someone

Since many escorts are newbies, they would buy a new skin regardless of what they job was.

Assumption. Many new players don't buy skins.

From: someone
No, I don't recommend any particular look to anyone bc as I have said, everyone has a definition of what is attractive. An escort can be anything, and if you insist that it is ONLY sexual, then I better contact a few gentlemen to give them a refund, as they only paid me to chat with them.

Okay, I stated it quickly, so I'll repeat myself. Not all actions of an escort are sexual. However, almost all escorts do offer sexual services. You're denying the antecedent in your argument, which is a logical fallacy.
From: someone

Referring to a new skin and thong as a uniform is probably the most retarded thing I have read in recent years, and also probably quite offensive to those who purchase both, yet are not escorts. And I should remember to put on my Barbie skin and granny panties the next time I sit in on a Senate meeting, so I'm not mistaken for a prostitute instead of an intelligent feamle.

I was using your example. You suggested that:
"But then he goes out, buys a new skin and a sexy little thong, and before you know it, four different people have paid Hiro to spend some time in their company. So in three hours, Hiro has made over $2000L"

So please don't play off like I made up some offensive remark. This one's yours. Perhaps you should consider that your example could have easily been more conservative dress. I was, in fact, surprised that you made that comment because it seemed extremely demeaning; your example showed escorts as sort of slutty, don't you think?

Oh, and I think the granny panties would be a little extreme, but I'm guessing more than a thong would be appropriate.

From: someone
Yes, it was very clear what I was advertising when I posted that I wanted to hire escorts to work in a nightclub. I advertised open employee opportunities. I was not advertising sex for sale. Everyone but you understands the difference.

*bangs head against desk*

Please re-review the poll results.

From: someone

I would be the first to complain about spam. ...

Understood. I realize that, at the time of you posting, you may not have realized that this was spam because you had/have a different view on whether or not the post violates/skirts the advertising policies.

From: someone
What really irritates and frustrates me is that you started this in another section of the forum, and when that thread was locked, you started a poll here.

Incorrect.
This thread was started: 08-06-2005, 01:44 AM
Other thread was locked: 08-06-2005, 03:15 PM

I don't appreciate your baseless accusations.

I started this poll and intentionally did not list the other as not to drag that other thread into the General forum. I did so because I thought I had made my point and did not want to drag you through more forum drama. You and Cienna came here and brought yourselves in; I never mentioned you two. This thread very well could have been strictly about the perception of the term "escort" and nothing about advertising.

From: someone
Why do you have this need to prove to the whole (SL) world that it is you who are right, and everyone else who is wrong?

Loaded question. I don't. More people don't read the forum than do.

I think it's you and Cienna who have to prove everyone else wrong in this thread, given the poll numbers.

From: someone
The majority of the posts in the other thread and this one disagree with you, yet you still can't drop it. I wish you would. If you FEEL you are right, you shouldn't have to convince everyone else.

I did drop it in the other thread. I'm responding to you and Cienna. Please note that you ask questions in your posts, indicating that you are looking for a response.

But I appreciate it, Katt, that you've been more civil with me than Cienna. And I mean that; I'm not being sarcastic.

I probably should be less sensitive to the event / forum spam. From reading your other post, I instantly villified you in my head because of the wage thing. What I'm sorry for is not giving you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were not aware that your post might be innappropriate, or that you might not realize how low those wages might be.

If you take anything from this, know that I will consider ways of better going about shooting down what I perceive as bad posts.

...
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