Escorts: SL Definition

after all this headache cuasing thread - i have a question

Is it the Advertizing sexual services thats the problem? or the sex for sale?

I think the main point here, is that while the majority of people concede that 99.9% of escorts do participate in sexual services, we like things the way they are.

The entendre that escort implys prostitute lets people who are into that sort of thing seek it out, but covers LL's ass legally. I think that when you strip it down to the letter of things, the law is pretty firmly postioned as to the difference between an escort service and a brothel.

In addition, I think that advertising for sex straight out kills alot of the thrill of that sort of service for the people that seek it out.

I think the reason that people are getting their backs up, Hiro, is that they feel that your comments are thinly veiled attacks against something that either brings them pleasure or money or both. I understand where you are coming from, but the Bright Light of Truth(TM) doesn't shine too well here.

well it also really looks liek an attempt to interphere in other people's second lives.

Which is something I never could support. Id rather have streetwalkers than thought police on the corner any day. Especially since in SL no one is a prostitute becuase they "have to be"

maintain decorum, sure - control the advertizing for pg's sake or whatever. Keep it discrete. But dont tell other people what they can do in SL, who they can do it with or how much they should be paid or pay.

Advertising, not the escorting in itself.

But it's open for debate, and I believe it's possible for someone to bring up a proper counter-argument other than "well let clubs do what they want".

My personal thought is that Linden Lab's credibility diminishes as a developer of the Metaverse if it sponsors sex for sale. I have nothing against advertising the escorts, per se, but not through Linden devices (forums, event listings).

And, I think the bottom line - clubs really don't need to advertise that. I think people already know. Leave the space for all the people struggling to host events that are being lost in the wave of "COME TO MY MONEYBALL / ESCORT / YARD SALE / DANCE / DJ / TRINGO / MALL / DANCER EVENT" postings. (and by that I mean all at once being in the ad, not one or two in the list)

An interesting thought - since soon youll be able to have a browser on a prim -

could they not advertize apart from the Events/ Forums listings on a seperate website accesable in the game also. This would probably work out better for many people.

Absolutely. Reverse compatibility with the Internet, especially HTML, will be a huge resource for advertising, sales, and services in Second Life.

I can't decide which is worse-

Paying for virtual sex, or paying for a virtual date..?

*tongue-in-cheek*

paying for the date, because at least paying for virtual sex you're guaranteed to score!

*removes tongue from cheek*

Let's see... You can ruin someone's help wanted ad and that's not a personal attack. But anyone who takes you to task over it is personally attacking you. Fascinating. *chuckle*



Er, not over a year ago... more like three days ago. Here's the link again so you can refresh your memory:

/invalid_link.html

Kindly note the date is 8-5-2005. Maybe it just feels like a year to you, or are you being dishonest again?



Yes, I know, this is the common response of any person who wishes to avoid admitting they initiated something.



It's only a personal attack if you're admitting you are as sensitive to that reality as you are to the one that all escorts are not hookers. Are you admitting it?



No, YOU stated that escort = hooker (selling sex). Remember? Oh wait. Your memory is giving you trouble... here, let's just have the quote again:

"So basically, even though it's blatantly obvious that "escort" means "sex for sale", - Hiro Pendragon, (sic) from post located at /invalid_link.html

And yes, I'm well aware you're still trying to twist out from under it all by using the poll as 'proof' that somehow, people thinking escort = sex means you were right to bust into that help wanted post and make a mess.

Guess what? It isn't working.



You know, I hear ginseng does wonders for memory. But maybe we're not dealing so much with a memory issue per se as you changing your tune now that it's all laying out publicly. I do find it interesting that you'd rather lie about what you said than just admit you were out of line. Says a lot about who you are and what's important to you (saving face more important than anything), in my opinion.



I'm incorrect to say that busting into a help wanted ad to soapbox is wrong? Tell me, Hiro -- just what color IS the sky in your world? Oh wait, silly me, the services being offered offended you so OF COURSE you must be right to do as you like and everyone who disagrees with you must be wrong. (cough)



Exactly the same thing? No. Over there, you took it upon yourself to disrupt a post that had nothing whatever to do with anything you were involved in... your actions were deliberately designed to disrupt that help wanted ad and, if possible, drive away interest.

On the other hand, my actions here were to point people who read your poll to the thread that initiated it, giving them a context that you seemingly would prefer they would not have otherwise. My actions were designed to cut off the intellectual dishonesty of trying to hide behind popular opinion... which, while you desperately continue trying to manage it, has become fairly futile insofar as anyone reading is concerned.

As for being vindictive, you have neither insight, telepathy, nor foundation from which to assume to my motivation. I note that isn't stopping you, nor did I really expect it to, especially as everything that lead to this point has been textbook example of someone who assumes more knowledge than they actually own. From assuming the original poster of that help wanted ad was 'just selling sex' to assuming that anyone who takes offense at your disruption of the thread is 'just supporting selling sex' to your assumption that everyone who agreed with your view in this poll somehow justifies your choice to disrupt that help wanted ad, right up to your latest assumption that I am 'being vindictive'.

Sorry, bud, you just aren't going to distract me. I'm not wrong about what you did, and I don't have to understand why you did it to know it was juvenile behavior. The point of contention isn't whether or not I'm 'being mean to you'.... the point of contention is 'were you right to bust up that help wanted ad'?

You can avoid it all you like, but it isn't going anywhere.



You very clearly do not think you have done anything wrong. I submit to you that is the problem.

You can continue to pretend you don't understand. You can continue to pretend that my remaining stubbornly on point has somehow confused you.

It really doesn't change things... but it does make for an interesting show. Personally, I'm betting your pride is not allowing you to admit you stepped in it. Every time you post another distractionary effort (e.g., "ooh, look at the numbers!" or "ooh, Cienna's being mean to me!" or "Well my dictionary says different." or pretty much anything other than "Gee, Katt, it was a terrible thing to do to you and I'm sorry I did it.", you're making me Lindens. So please... do it again.

A personal attack is more about substance than location, so yes. I spoke poorly of the post, but never of the person who wrote it.


Sorry, I was confused.

This quote was in the context of the club owner openly admitting that he indeed was looking to hire escorts to provide sexual service, but that he was using a euphamism. Ergo, I stated that it was blatantly obvious what he meant when he originally posted.


That's still debatable, but it's sort of beside the point.


No, it's a personal attack because it was claiming that I am. -- As in, claiming someone has personal issues and personal hangups is clear ad hominem.


Now you're making a false assumption.
I was accused of doing a whole bunch of things, including being "against sex in SL" and being hungup or some rubbish. There were a variety of things to respond to, including the claim that I was wrong in my perception of what "escort" means. That one I responded to with the new thread.

As for whether or not I was right to bust in, I made a mistake. I had felt that responding to the TOS-ness of a post in that post was okay, when in fact it's not. Jeska stated that, and after contemplating it, I have to agree.
/120/ae/56959/1.html

However, the way you have attacked me again and again, you present some case like I've done everything wrong and everything I say is to somehow weasel out of it. No, you're mistaken, and I have yet to personally attack you in return. I'm sure you're a decent person, but you just don't get the irony of you relentlessly attacking me for what you perceive is a relentless attack.


More personal attacks. Nice.



On the other hand, my actions here were to point people who read your poll to the thread that initiated it, giving them a context that you seemingly would prefer they would not have otherwise. My actions were designed to cut off the intellectual dishonesty of trying to hide behind popular opinion... which, while you desperately continue trying to manage it, has become fairly futile insofar as anyone reading is concerned.
[/quote]
You describe your intentions, not your actions. Your actions do not follow your intentions very well.


I said tone, not motivation. The tone was, in fact, vindictive. If I am mistaken, please explain how attacking me as a person as you did repeatedly is not vindictive.

Have a nice day.

That's all I wanted to see. Thanks. My work here is done.

nvm, w/e - I'll let this one die.

Of course it was based on assumptions. It was a comedic statement intended as satire. I make assumtions, take outlandish positions, and occaisionally bask in hypocrisy. All unburdend witht he difficult task of potificcating my opinions for the poor dumb masses grovelling at feet who have not recieved the taste of my wisdom. Because after all I am always right and everyone is entitled to my opinion. And I never ever ever dream that I might be wrong or need to lighten up on the can of know it all I take every morning for breakfast.

However, all jesting aside, the serious portions of my orignal post [edited to remove language that coud be construed as a personal attack upon request ] is thus:

Escorts imply sex. Which means that my answer to the question promulgated by the original thread is that "In second life the term "escort" implies somone who sells sex."

I think its a beautiful thing that people can explore any alternative lifstyle they wish. Including selling their avi bodies for avi sex.

Of course I think its a beautiful this when people can express opions, question perceptions, definitions and challenge authority and accepted wisdom with out being constantly condescended to as well. But I am old fashioned.

Do you expect me to take heed of your "wisdom" after you say things like this?

In the words of Rhett Butler: "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."

hehehehe.

Hey, whatever you do, don't let personal feelings get in the way man.

hehehehe.

In general nothing is every personal with me in the forums. Except the organized shunning of the gadfly!

You had me at hello. Then you kept speaking.

how did this end? were you able to rationalize your baffoonery in the classifieds section based on a (lame) appeal to public perception?

and your point?
I suddenly came down of my know it all high, and am confused.

Actually, Jauani, I was walkin' to the kitchen for some Golden Grahams When I accidentally stepped into an alternate dimension and soon I was abducted by some aliens from space who kinda looked like Jamie Farr. They sucked out my internal organs and they took some polaroids and said I was a darn good sport and as a way of saying thank you they offered to transport me back to any point in history that I would care to go and so I had them send me back to last Thursday night so I could pay my phone bill on time. Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling.

Well thank god, that was a lot more interesting that the bruhaha you created over virtual hookers.

Actually, my underlying motives were to specifically make you, Cristiano Midnight, to post in a thread that he would later call boring. You have just fallen into my trap, and I have succeeded! Hoorah!

Nah I just liked having the chance to combine "bruhaha" and "virtual hookers".

Well, then start your own bruhaha with virtual hookers, if you think you can do a better job!

/snicker