Should the "Impeach Bush" Guy's freedom of expression be surpressed/censored?

We already don't have freedom of speech here, the forums are run by Linden rules. For example, if I call you certain things, I get in trouble. Freedom of speech is constitutionally protected while in public spaces in the USA and its territories, but this is a private service. I'm no more free to say whatever I want here, than I am to come into your living room in real life and shout obscenities at you.

These threads are completely shitting up the forum. One or two would be enough.

His marking the land for sale is not extortion. That word is tossed around as much as the word libel, without any clear understanding of what extortion actually is. Extortion involves the use of force or undue pressure to cause someone to act against their will to avoid harm. There is no harm here, and no ability to force anyone to do anything against their will. He can't force you to buy the land. If you do not like the signs, that is one thing. You can't argue that "you're being forced to look at them against your will" - that can be said of anything in SL. There are all kinds of builds on land that is for sale that many people find unattractive - the SLUSTLER crap signs come to mind, but again it is not extortion. Lazarus is probably doing this just to be annoying, but again, he is not violating the TOS at all in doing so.

There is also no tangible harm that can be avoided, as there is no harm being caused - it is self-inflicted. The signs are static, and not on anyone else's property. They do not shout anything, they don't cause lag, they don't do anything. There is no harm, except in the minds of those who don't like them. There is no extortion - none of this would hold up under the legal definition of it. Lazarus is well within the same rights we all enjoy in SL. For SL to curtail them for him would mean to curtail them for all of us. I know it is hard to see beyond these signs and think it could not happen again, but it can and it will.

Well lets see. I spent two weeks traveling all over SL trying to find the nicest neighborhood with some of the most beutiful builds in the mainland. I finally find the perfect spot and pay the L19,999 for the 1536 plot of land. I get my house built and get to know my neighbors and make new friends. Then a week later I have political signs scattered all above my house and one purposefully stuck right in my window. So I figure well this guy just wants money from me so I'll pay him. When i check my property I see he has two !6 sq plots with his signs on them thats ok I'll buy them anyway. Well Guess What He Wants L16,000 apeice for THEM. Do I Feel Like I've been blackmailed and extorted. HELL YEAH

The pics are below.

Cocoanut,

It does not even begin to meet the legal definiton of extortion. Also, griefing is a very subjective thing. I can claim a club causing lag in a sim is griefing the other landowners - it does not make it so. If your neighbor is sick of looking at your build and puts up a giant fence on their land so they don't have to look at your house, they are not griefing you - yet you would probably feel offended. Lazarus is riding the wave of hysteria this has all caused and profiting off of it, but that is not extortion.

if i understand you correctly, if someone puts a coco house or anything that i don't want to see on my neighbouring land and marks the plot for sale for any price whatsoever, then it is extortion.

if the person doesn't mark the plot for sale, then will it just be harassment?

You don't own the view of anything beyond your own land.

That's an annoyance, not harm. He hasn't damaged you physically, nor has he damaged your property or land.

You also haven't been extorted. There is no guarantee that the land surrounding the land you purchased would remain in the same state forever. If you're looking to live under specific building guidelines, a zoned community would be more fitting for you. He isn't harming you or your property. He is a personal annoyance to you.

You also haven't been blackmailed.



That you're upset is certainly not in doubt. I was upset when I carefully looked for my first land plot and got one in a pristine valley with wonderful views, only to have a neighbor build a gigantic green box club directly in my way 2 days afterwards. However, just because he was also trying to sell the land for more than he paid for it, I was not a victim of extortion.

Do I think Bush should be impeached? Yes. Do I think the Impeach Bush signs have anything to do with political commentary or protest? No, I don't. They're ugly, and they're prolific and ugly, which is worse. But I'm not quite ready to have LL dictate what we can and cannot display on our paid-for land, any more than they already do.

Quite selfishly, I want to have the option open to be able to display any kind of political protest sign I wish to in the future, whether my land is for sale or not, without a precedent stating that a mob can dictate it be taken down. To demand that the annoying Impeach Signs be taken down or the creator punished, and then deciding I'll put up my own political protest in the future, is a bit more hypocritical than I can, in good consious, be.

Want to stop him from putting up his signs? Buy any 16sm plots you see for sale before he can buy them. Don't set any tiny plots for sale for him to buy up. Arrange for a seller before you set a plot to sale.

As long as he owns the land, he controls that view. Want to control the view, buy the land before he can.

ok so you don't like it. and you have a problem with it. but do you want the person to stop out of their own volition, or do you want to LL to censor the person?

the logical conclusion is an aesthetic police using it's authority to prevent people from building anything that deviates from the mobs desire.

it could spell the endof artistic expression in SL.

last year this time SL observed a contreversial installation censored because mob protest on the forum. fortunately LL has seen the error of their decision and don't wish to repeat taking the same stifling measure to please NIMBYS

LOL

The bush signs are completely shitting up the SL landscape. One or two would be enough.

I see the analogy

Aren't you cute. You're just so cute I don't know how you stand yourself.

coco

It's not a question of freedom of expression; it's a question of extortion.



It's not a question of censorship; it's a question of extortion.



Preventing extortion sets the only precedent that criminal or immoral activity will not be tolerated in Second Life. It's a question of extortion.



It's not a question of ugly builds; it's a question of extortion.



Now there I agree with you.

No matter how many times you repeat it, it does not make it extortion. There is no extortion here. Check the legal definition of extortion, and you will find this does not even begin to meet the requirements to be declared extortion.

Its not extortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion



No harm is being done to your person or your property. No one is threatening your person or property. The possibility that the value of your land goes down when he moves in next door is moot, as there are many things (and builds) that will lower the value of your land, and the value of your land is in no way a right that you hold or that LL guarantees.

Someone is being an annoyance, and has discovered that people will pay him to go away and be an annoyance elsewhere. If people stop paying him, he will stop being annoying.

Everything this guy is doing, he's doing on his own land. The same TOS that protects him, protects you from a neighbor that decides they don't like the fact you are "extorting" them with a build that they don't like in their view.

Good lord, thank you Cristiano, I was beginning to think I was the only person that appreciated a word's definition.

Ironically enough, GWB's tendancy to redefine words to his own liking is one of the reasons I dislike the man so much.

No I'm definitely with you on that - extortion and blackmail are being tossed around indiscriminately, and this is neither one. The amount of hyperbole surrounding these stupid signs is amazing.

Well yes - you split the 'let them stay' between two questions...
Just bein honest here
The addition of the 'opinion' at the end also tries to heard people to either 2 catagories or 'don't care'

There is no such thing as a scientific forum poll anyways -for reasons I've stated in other threads... also you handfull of forum posters by no means can accurately depict what the much greater number of people in SL think...

What do they think? shit I dunno - there's no way to collectively ask them!

I think I mentioned that in another thread also - 'profiteering' comes close - but theres no TOS violation there.

Technically, you could call it extortion:

ex·tor·tion (ĭk-stôr'shən) pronunciation
n.

1. The act or an instance of extorting.
2. Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.
3. An excessive or exorbitant charge.
4. Something extorted.

But I'm with you, I don't really view them as extortion, just annoying

it's not a question of extortion - do you know what extortion is?
It's not a question of extortion - buy a dictionary
preventing CRIMINAL or IMMORAL sets the only precedent that criminal or immoral activity will not be tolerated in Second Life. it's not a question of extortion - read the dictionary
it's not a question of extortion. it really is a question of ugly builds

and you failed the test

that definition of "extortion" is not the legal term to which people are alluding to when they are trying to assert their NIMBY mentality on SL at large. IF that is the extortion people are really talking about, there is nothing illegal or immoral about it, so what is the fuss?

That was the definition of "extortion" I used when I first came on the message boards, whining about how ugly these signs are, etc. There are other people who do think of extortion in very broad terms - legal definition notwithstanding. To them this *is* extortion. He's pricing these small parcels at outrageous rates; he has been known to add signs to plots when asked to remove or even move signs; he has been known to raise his signs above the walls people have erected so they won't have to look at them.... Not sure if he's still using these tactics, we are only hearing from some people who have had dealings with him and not always getting the full story (like how they really approached him when asking him to remove the signs) - ya know?

That, for many, is the fuss

I personally don't really care anymore - I see he is getting a few new signs that are more aesthetically pleasing (thanks nimrod) , but having been one who screeched "Extortion!!" for quite a while, I thought I could explain it from that point of view.

I always enjoy high quality definitions - however, those four are horrible: two of the definitions define the word with the word itself instead of defining what it means. The other two definitions are not extortion either - the second definition would not even remotely be extortion unless force or threats were involved (give me this or else I won't approve your building permit).

As far as the third definition, that only applies in the case of price gouging - charging outrageous prices for essential goods or services. The land in question is not essential. If that were the case, any land that is sold for more than the going market rate would be extortion.

Oh absolutely, they are terrible definitions, and I didn't have to look hard to find these definitions either. Most people aren't looking for a legal definition - they are simply looking for a word to "best" describe what they feel is happening. *Extortion* fits for many people because of the price attached to the plots and the guy's attitude about removing or moving his signs. Add to it the people fanning the flames in the forums with - how many threads we up to now about it? Oh well, I've said my piece about it. I used to cry extortion about them... now I don't care

Except there is no extortion or griefing going on...But I guess you can ignore those facts.