how to be an unprincipled wanker and pretend you have principles

Since my land is for ME and there is no purpose for people to visit, then my builds have no purpose? Since some people find it terribly ugly, should I tear it down in favor of something that people will want to come visit? Where is the office I should apply to for an SL Building Aesthetics Approval Permit?

No, I don't imagine that this will affect Mr. Impeach one bit especially given Hamlet Makes-Randolph-Hearst-Look-Objective Linden interview cited above.

My intention, which will likely fail, is to demonstate what this policy can engender by sheer absuridty of even more rampant view polution.

But you know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they will ignore him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and won't pay attention to either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people putting signs everywhere they can? They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day putting up a sign? And friends, they may think it's a movement.

to the easily offended: the above paragraph was a paraphrase from Arlo Guthrie's classic protest song Alice's Restaurant and contains an epithet used by the original artist as a parody of bigotry, as is the use above.

Well spoken !

And? What's that got to do with anything? It's his land, he can do what he wants to with it. You simply cannot divine the intentions of someone, or tell them what to do with their own tier. Period.

Does it suck? Yep. Ah well, freedom is a double edged sword.



Nobody visits my house in Grignano. Should it be torn down? I can't prove that I want people to visit it, either. It's a half-done house; is it an eyesore? Who's to say? Do my neighbors like my half-built house? Should they have final say over what the house should look like?

Before you continue your crusade, please answer those questions. Then apply it to the situation here.




Yup. On their land. Key phrase there. It's on the other person's land, so they have NO power over it.

There's a saying in SL: If you want to keep the view, you have to buy it.

No, it's fine for it to be just for you! But I don't think Lazarus Divine has put down the cubes so that he can fly over to the them and enjoy the ambience.

Why do people insist that enforcement must be done by robotic, logical rules? It's like saying that we can't arrest a shoplifter because if we do, everyone else will be afraid to look at things on the shelves because they might get arrested.

Because if I'm a shitty builder with a political agenda, and my neighbors don't like it, under your dystopia, they would have the power to have an otherwise legit build torn down.

I'd rather not live in a dictatorship governed by my sexball neighbors, thanks.

Yeah, and it's a lie. If buying land insured the view, this would be a non-issue. Unless of course you're attempting to say the only way to insure the view is to buy a sim.

The stupidity of the mindset of 'spend $200+/month with us' in this market/industry is beyond conveyance.

ObPolitical: This feels like the 'It's the economy stupid' thing.... LL, It's the Zoning, stupid.

*nods at Khamon* You nailed it! The only way to make him stop is to ignore him. If he sells only one parcel a month, he'll keep doing it. So STOP BUYING IT PEOPLE!!!

As you get older and more mature you begin to realise that some things are more important than selfish hedonistic anarchy. There is a moral obligation to at least attempt to get on with your neighbours, especially if they have been working hard to establish an environment.

Not necessarily. Maybe he's some nutcase who has a grudge against bush.

People should stop guessing what other's intentions are. Unless you are Goddess, or a psychic with telepathic powers, there is no way you can know that he's motivated by the selling of land.

Can anyone cite the part of the community standards or TOS that forbids open display of porno in mature areas?

I may be way off here. I honestly can't remember. But weren't you one of the people trying to get Club Elite to leave Federal back in the day? Apologies if I'm wrong.

Of course. But you cannot coerce people to do anything. If someone doesn't want to play by the rules, there is zero recourse for neighbors to do anything. Except, of course, annoying the neighbors out of the sim. Which may or may not work.

Ayup. Know what I participated in that dramabomb? I posted a sign. Boy, did that people up in arms over everything. Nothing quite like physical threats to my life and being called every variation of "homo queen" in the book.

Regardless, you're proving my point. I didn't want them to be there. So what did I do? Posted some protesting material. The signs weren't ToS-violationary (a new word, I assure you), so the Club Elite owners had no recourse. Of course, they spent the next hour trying to cover it up with "big homo fag" signs or whatever, but that's neither here nor there.

The point is, having freedom of speech on your own plot is a very important tenet of Second Life society.

I really have to agree with LF on this one.

Unless they can specifically restate something in the TOS about creating builds with the sole intent of bringing down neighboring property values, then LL's hands are pretty much tied.

The second they take a stand on this, they'll have countless requests to intervine in any number of "his build is ugly/griefing/lowering the property value, take it down" situations. They have neither the time nor the inclination (I imagine) to make a value judgement on each and every case.

The solution, while long-term, is still within the hands of the community. Don't purchase land from this guy. Period. If it absolutely distresses you so, look into a zoned residential sim where there are rules firmly in place against this type of thing.

To clarify: I certainly dislike what this guy is doing as much as any of you. However, I dislike the precident of LL stepping in to remove them under the current TOS far worse.

*laugh* aaaah, thanks for that little trip down memory lane. The ghost of drahmas past. Why do I hear Craig Kilbourne's voice saying, "So what have we learned today?" in my head?



I agree, but I'm not sold on that right being absolute.

The Community Standards, as far as I interpret, do not forbid open display in mature areas:



The TOS is more vague:

ditto

i'm looking forward to LL zoning tools as well just to give people that want the option the chance to exercise it. However, as was recently explained to me in these forums, grouping together to buy out a sim or create a homeowner's association is not impossible (even if i think it's damn hard)

oh yeah, and whenever this guy's prims creep over the boundary, get them deleted lol

You don't need to divine whether or not griefing and land extortion was his intention, if you can show that griefing and land extortion is what is happening.

Maybe somebody didn't INTEND to murder the next guy, but if the guy is dead, he is still going to be charged with murder (or one of its legal variations).

His intentions don't matter if griefing and land extortion are what is actually happening.

Once that is established, griefing and land extortion trump (or should trump) free speech, which is an irrelevant consideration in these circumstances.

Free speech is not the issue here. It is a red herring.

coco

A couple of things.

If he isn't showing up in find, I am going to guess he was suspended. Probably for cussing someone out. Probably not banned.

I wouldn't be surprised to be honest. I bought a parcel from him a few weeks back - apparently he had mismarked it. Now, as a rule, if I buy a parcel, and the seller contacts me, and tells me it was sold erroneously or at the wrong price - I instantly go sell it back at the price I bought it for. I do not keep mistakes. THIS GUY however; he went fucking batshit insane on me, without allowing me to even respond. He threw every foul name in the book at me in a 5 minute tirade. I tongue lashed him (without cursing him out, mind you) and he eventually calmed down. I gave him his land back. Had I known that he was about to become the PITA that he is now, I would have kept it, and broken my own rule. Live and learn I guess. Anyway, apparently I am not the only one he has cussed out - I have heard he's cussed others out for blocking his signs with walls ON THEIR OWN LAND! Oh the irony.

Now, on signage and free speech - SL and RL.

For the folks saying "free speech!" - sorry, but we don't even have that type of free speech in RL (in the US anyway). Most cities have signage ordinances. You simply could not get away with buying small parcels of land all over your town and placing multiple, spinning, giant signs on them. I imagine, even if some town who doesn't have an ordinance with respect to signage was faced with this issue - they might get together and push the city council into drafting one.

Hell, most cities even have rules for signs in areas zoned commercial! The rules dictate the size of the sign allowed, the distance from the road, the height above the ground, and so on.

Being that there is no real protection of free speech in SL, and that in the real world he wouldn't be able to get away with it, I have to say that "freedom of speech!" is the wrong tack here.

However; given that SL is a different animal, we have to approach things a bit differently. There are MANY builds that would never be allowed in RL. If we start removing ONE type, we probably open Pandora's box - not a prospect I want to face.

Now, I would not be averse to LL drafting zoning "ordinances" for future land expansions, not at all - we just cannot be retroactive about it, and try to zone sims already in existence. It's just not feasible.

Consensus is not regulation.

They removed Zoey Jade's penis shaped shop, so there is a precedent here.

Thread.

My response to "Impeach Bush" signs...

Understood. The CS and the TOS seem to be at odds here. The TOS clearly indicates that LL is the arbiter of vulgar and obscene content.