Torley's Answer Regarding Posts Removed in the Linden Blogs

I showed a heck of a lot more than Linden Lab have shown us over this whole issue, that's for sure.

Face it... the blogs can be read by people without signing up. That's why they're wanting them to be pleasant, all-is-well-on-the-farm, aren't-we-wonderful and isn't everyone all such happy little fluffy bunnies enjoying the interverse metaweb that we've created.

Linden Lab can try and silence the dissent... but they can't make it go away unless they listen to us and do something about what is upsetting us.

Lewis

I agree to an extent with the sentiment of the lack of open discussion with LL now the forums are closing and as importantly the ability for SLers to talk in a common forum.

However, what was the purpose of this additional comment? I see it so many times on forums and it always appears so pathetic.

What is the purpose of this quasi announcement? To make other posters clamour for you to stay? To make yourself feel important? In the expectation that the forum host will change policy to retain you? What exactly does it add to the validity of the remainder of the post?

I have not chosen this particular poster to respond to in any personal way, as I have never met the individual who made this point. The only opinion on this individual I do have, is they are not as valued as they evidently think they are. Bloated egos are not a pleasure to hear and are best left behind the keyboard.

If you really want to leave, feel free. If you want people to take your views seriously, get your ego out of the way as that is all that is visible.

Not in the slightest, I don't expect many would care if I left, in fact there'd probably be quite a big party in some corners.

Second Life is supposed to be fun. We shouldn't be living in fear of posting something in case a Linden with a bad attitude decides they don't like something we have to say, neither should we be living in fear of the grid crashing and losing hours - maybe weeks - of work in an instant.

The simple point being that things like removing the forums add yet another negative aspect to the overall Second Life experience, and whilst it may seem insignificant to many, for some it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Lewis

For once I can wholly agree with a posting of yours, Lewis - the last two paragraphs, anyway.

Things haven't reached that point for me - I still get a great deal of pleasure out of second life. But for me the sense of community used to include community with the Lindens, and that aspect has completely gone. One of the more stupid responses when people complained about anything was, "It's their game, they can do what they want." Well, that feeling has become very apparent of late. I am conscious that every word I speak, every action I take, everything I have created, everything I love about Second Life, could be taken away in an instant.

Not a good feeling, and one that removes a lot of the enjoyment I used to feel.

Good point. Really, it does come down to the fact it's acceptable to do wrong to the sinner, and so they never see that it can be done to them just as easily.

As to deleting posts in a blog, that is still their RIGHT. It's their site. They have the right to delete and moderate as they see fit. The other side of that is as to do so, it shows us their opinions and level of respect they have for us.

You can't help but wonder right now.

I personally think it's not malice, though: I think it's a transitionary time period where some are being overly protective of that they see as their 'baby' and are unwilling to see it dirtied. It's a normal response, and even healthy to a degree. It just does not help the situation currently, wich is a political powderkeg with a lit fuse.

It soon will not matter, anyway: With LL closing the forums, their inner workings will be distributed across the major 3rd party forums, making it even harder for them to keep a lid on problems and issue. What are they going to do when a site's newscasters start discussing a massive exploit that has been allowed to exist for too long? Ban them all? Ban the owner of the site for not moderating it?

I see a lot of possible outcomes... And a large number of them make me worry.


Regardless, LL has set the future in stone concerning this. We can argue the point all day, but consider this:

Do you think that they did not already consider the uproar that closing the forums would cause? Do you think anyone can see how much this place is used, and not figure out that their may be some resistance?

They decided this. It was not open to debate. I IS going to happen.

Find a new forum and rebuild a community there. Grab your best posts and move them. Think of it like changing offices. These forums may be closed to us, but the has never meant it's over.

It's only over if we LET it be over.

Later all. I have to try and get MY forums working properly. Hosting problems...

Ah, the joys of being a sysadmin...

At no time have I ever thought this wasn't the case... and so I have never given SL more than I can walk away from, because I know due to circumstances in or out of LL's control it may all vanish over night.

Unless I can own, and physically possess, the server and a non-expiring license of the SL server code upon which to view/play/share my own data, there is no way to avoid that ugly possibility.

I enjoy it for what it is though, and have no delusions of it being forever.

What you want SL to be is not something that LL offers.

What you espouse is "opposition" not "dissent".

Why do you act so shocked that LL seems uninterested in hosting your bad-press? Just how long would you tolerate people putting "Lewis Nerd is Incompetent and Delusionary!" signs on your front lawn before you took some sort of action?

If you want to make a difference, pick your top issue, and make your ultimatum.

Something like: "The standard Wednesday patch window is not acceptable to me because it consistantly discriminates against UK/EU based residents. If LL doesn't reschedule at least three of the next nine update downtimes so that they don't occur during prime UK/EU evening time, I'm going to cancel my account and recommend that all other EU/UK folks do the same until this issue is addressed."

Of course for it to stick, you actually have to be prepared to follow through.

Can you do that?

Well said, and I agree with pretty much everything you said, save that I do call one part into question:

In all honesty, I do wonder how much consideration LL has given to the impact of their actions. Initially, it's easy enough to conclude that they must really have thought it through, but then ... have you ever met Philip Linden? It's like someone remarked in another forum -- he seems to come off somewhat as "little boy lost." He visited a drumming session we were doing because someone sent him a tp, and to my mild disbelief, he was mystified by the drums (those "elven drums" setups you see scattered throughout SL). He'd never seen them! Apparently, ever!

Don't get me wrong; he seemed perfectly nice as a person. But to me, it's a little telling when the head Linden doesn't even know, not even just by having heard of it, about a fairly common thing that goes on in SL. And how often have you seen the Lindens in the forums here? Torley, occasionally Robin, and ...?

And ...?

Nada.

I've seen forums with a strong official presence, and there's a huge difference -- you don't get this sense that maybe, just maybe, the devs neither know nor care what's really going on. Here? I'm not so sure. I want to think that they do, but ... I'm just not so sure anymore.

Well, that's kind of hard to argue with. Are you sure he might not have been faking his disbeliefe? Perhaps to exagerate his happiness at seeing them?

Well, there's no way to know that, and we have to go with our perceptions, I guess. I just kind of hoped that it thought out move based on information we could not see, as opposed to a half baked plan based on information THEY could not see.

Great. Now I'm trying to figure it out too. You like to share insomnia, don't'cha?

Sorry.

But yes ... I don't remember, word-for-word, all of exactly what he said, but he was, by all appearances, definitely very thrilled to have discovered them. He even asked who'd made them. If it wasn't his first time seeing them, he sure put on a show making it seem that way.

So... this isn't a company making a product and sending it out to their customers happy or dissatisfied, who want to put a blog on their website to create a little friendly communication with those customers. This is a company who relies on US, the content creators, to give their product any meaning at all. This is a company who has clients, co-creators and investors all rolled into one, and who deserve a voice.

They tried to present the change from forum to blog as better communication. It clearly isn't and we're calling them out on it. I don't see any problem with that.

The Tao of Linden calls for openness and honesty, and I can't see for any reason why that shouldn't extend to the people who help to pay their wages. Us.
Cali