Torley's Answer Regarding Posts Removed in the Linden Blogs

More on the "improved communication" we can expect from the Lindens as they retreat to their blogs.

As you may be aware, this week has seen the removal of posts from Pathfinder's blog, as well as one to Robin's blog regarding the removal of those posts.

Kiki Lemieux asked yesterday, in Second Life Answers, "Who moderates the blog responses? And what is the criteria for removing a reply? "

I see that Torley has responded. Here's what we now know.

1. Any Linden who has a blog can remove the posts in any other blog:

"All Lindens who contribute to the Linden blog are welcome to moderate comments, particularly in regards to their own entries."

2. There are no guidelines (anyway, I haven't seen any):

"We're working on guidelines to post, but we like to keep it simple and understandable."

3. The frame of reference for deciding what to remove, in Torley's view, would Robert Scoble's "family room" approach:

"A good frame of reference is Robert Scoble's family room idea. In his words:

"'It was at that moment that I decided to moderate my comments here. Yes, I am now approving every comment here. And I will delete any that don't add value to either my life or the lives of my readers."'This is a huge change for me. I wanted a free speech area, but after having a week off I realize that I need to make a change. That, I'm sure, will lead to attacks of 'censorship' and all that hooey. Too bad. I'm instituting a 'family room' rule here. If I don't like it, it gets deleted and deleted without warning - just the same as if you said something abusive in my family room I'd kick you out of my house. If you don't like that new rule, there are plenty of other places on the Internet to write your thoughts. Start a blog and link here. Etc. Etc.'"

My conclusions:

1. So apparently the criteria Torley, at least would prefer (and it looks like the criteria that has been followed so far, by Pathfinder) would be whether or not a Linden thinks a particular post "adds value" to his life or that of other residents. Moreover, if that a Linden "doesn't like" something (whether in his particular blog or not), it gets deleted without warning.

2. As we saw earlier, Prok's post got removed in the first place. For those who may have missed it, it was in Pathfinder's blog about the six new vehicle sims, and I put it in my other thread, below.

While Aaron Levy's post, bringing up the same points, was allowed to stand, and was addressed.

In addition, my asking why Prok's post was removed; my objection to the removal of my own post was removed, then replaced today, then removed again; and Cristiano's post about the removal of all of the above was removed.

3. What to conclude? Prok was too direct? Pathfinder just doesn't like him? I was too direct? Pathfinder just doesn't like me? Cristiano wasn't supposed to ask about it either?

Let's face it. Pathfinder doesn't like Prok, and hasn't since he plotted (yes, plotted) with residents on the ICQ channel to get prok out of the game, and that entire conversation ultimately came to light, complete with chat log, and Pathfinder was removed from forum duty.

So that means that if a moderator doesn't like you, he can and will remove your posts, and on any blog he feels like doing it on.

I don't expect to ever know the truth about this, but I strongly doubt that it was Robin who removed my post.

In any case, the fact remains, that regardless of which Linden you are talking to, Torley has made it clear that any Linden can remove any posts on any of the blogs, "particularly in regards to their own entries."

Which would, interestingly, precisely describe my post to Robin's blog, which was in regards to Pathfinder's own entries (and deletions thereon).

4. No, this is no "family room" rule - not by any stretch of the imagination.

It is license to remove any and all posts you don't like (or from people you don't like), on yours or any other Linden's blog, with no warning and no explanation, and remove any questions about that action as well.

Whether or NOT any post has actually done anything besides ruffle your feathers the wrong way, for whatever personal reason you may have.

This is no family room, this is, "I'm God and don't you forget it."

This is unacceptable, and disrespectful both to residents and to any idea of basic civility, which is nothing to do with freedom of speech.

coco

Thank God for third party web sites, Coco you're whipping a dead horse with these people, it's over.

So? I don't like Prok either.

Pathfinder's removing Prok's posts on sight, well that just makes me believe that Pathfinder is an excellent judge of character.

I know, it's kind of a post-mortum. And a discussion of what we can expect on the Second Life Blogs.

coco

If a company is only accepting feedback from the people they *like*, then the whole exercise may be as well called off, and substituted with a five buck hooker instead.

She can do all the necessary butt licking, and then some. "ALL IN RL"

/seconded

I'm rolling my eyes so hard you right now.

And as Paul Harvey would say "Now you know the rest of the story".
I set shaking my head often lately wondering why in the world the blog system would be embraced so eagerly by the Lindens. First I thought it was more organized (no, it wasn't especialy with the search features and pages and pages of sifting to find things). Next I thought they like a place to show what they themselves are up to. Kind of to justify their jobs which didn't make a lot of sense either unless it was to say "look what I can do".
Now the truth is known. They can and will delete any and all posts that may bring to light flaws in the thinking of new pet projects.
"I am sorry, you have reached my blog. I am unavailable to answer your question or respond to your comment right now. Rest assured as soon as I can I will either respond or delete it depending on how I feel about it. Don't try asking Robin or Torley either because I will do it there too. Thank you and please believe me when I say your feedback is very important to Linden Labs".
I also have to wonder if the access is available for someone to run over to Phil's blog and delete his comments too? Likely so.

Wow - does anyone here see a contradiction?

In the announcement regarding the closing of the forums in favor of the blog and other "future plans":
"Dialogue. We love it and our hope is that these changes will help to channel it. Ultimately, we are looking to keep the voices, shout-outs, feedback and diversity of opinion flowing. In order to do that, we need to make sure not to be flooded by it. With these changes we hope to retain the dialogue, and to ensure the voices are heard."

In Torley's response as per Coco above:
"I wanted a free speech area, but after having a week off I realize that I need to make a change. That, I'm sure, will lead to attacks of 'censorship' and all that hooey. Too bad. I'm instituting a 'family room' rule here. If I don't like it, it gets deleted and deleted without warning - just the same as if you said something abusive in my family room I'd kick you out of my house."

I am wondering if i should have used an alt before commenting on these forums. Maybe one of the Lindens will take offense, and I'll get blackballed from the Blogs.

*cries*

Oh, and it's nice to know that Torley decided to do away with free speech during a week's vacation. Nice.

torley is gone, btw, she turned to the dark side, more machine than man

she works for the empire

she is no longer a resident

she carries out the work of her master

now the circle is complete

No, Delicious - those weren't Torley's words; she was quoting this other guy, who was talking about his own blog or whatever, and his own week off.

Torley just quoted it as what she thought would be a good frame of reference for moderating the Linden Blogs.

coco

P.S. But yes, there is a definite contradiction between what Robin said about feedback and everything, and what is actually happening.

Love or hate what Torley says lately (and I am growing more and more to dislike it) I wanna give credit where it is due. You get an honest and actual response by him. He will flat out tell you when your voice is not needed anymore. That is much better then the ones that keep trying to throw the smoke screen of "we care about what you have to say".

I will say that I'm surprised that anyone is still ... well, surprised by all this.

I knew the moment the forum closure was announced that that was it -- that was the final, definitive indicator of the path LL had decided to take. All the rest that has followed has just been the expected.

Although I hope my saying so bluntly like this isn't putting me at risk personally ...

I've posted a few things on the Linden blogs which are still there but could be definitely "unapproved by the love machine".

I panicked a little when, in quick succession, two emails appeared in my Hotmail box from Michael Linden.

It was acknowledgements of completion of abuse reports.

*relaxes*

Lewis

I often, lately, find myself wishing I were better at just shutting up and quietly welcoming whatever comes. An environment wherein the people in charge are so opposed to discussion that they will actively delete contributions that seek to start it is not a good place to be outspoken by nature.

In other, unrelated but amusing news, Suezanne C. Baskerville asked in Second Life Answers when the forums were going to be closed.

Torley deftly non-answered that "It'll be announced shortly before it happens on the Official Linden Blog. "

I'm just loving the Official Linden Blogs more every minute, aren't you? Makes information so much easier to come by and all. Just makes me feel kinda warm and glow-y all over.

coco

So, it ain't over until blog lady sings..? ^^;;;

Nope.

Lewis

There hasn't been enough drama on the forums today?

--
Did someone put something into the water supply or something?

We can't know until the Official Linden Blog tells us what we're supposed to think.

Yes, I agree. The forum closure was the final indication by the Lindens that they are no longer interested in their residents except inasmuch as we continue to pay them.

Since then I have felt there is no point in writing, going to meetings, talking to them inworld.

Talk to the hand, indeed.

I kind of wondered what shortly meant; One minute, one day, one hour? It's a mystery. Should we start a pool?

Exactly. I still talk here, but it's not for the benefit of the Lindens -- only other residents and myself. And I am not paying any attention to the blogs.