anti-griefer / security groups in SL

This is a very interesting discussion, both enlightening and amusing at times. In some ways it parralels RL situations when groups like the Guardian Angels come into areas and various feelings they generate, being called everything from heroes to vigilantes.

I'll relay this to the team. They'll be proud. Thank you.

You forgot "Abuse".
What you present is your Interpretation of the TOS, Unfortunately for you the Interpretation LL will be Looking at is the one made by the person ARing you. YOU think your actions are Fine, the person who takes exception to your actions will be disagreeing. Call it Paranoid, or whatever, but TOS is STILL on thier side.

This is the Problem, Griefers don't understand or don't care that Everyone doesn't share thier sense of Humor.

Angel.

So what you're saying is that I should AR every landowner or group member who ejects me from their land without cause, or who calls me a bad name in a PG sim.

That's not a bad idea, actually. By further bogging down the system with even more worthless abuse reports, the Lindens may just start ignoring abuse reports altogether.

I've had several people say they were reporting me for abuse. And I've had one actual warning from a Linden. The gist of said warning was that I was not really doing anything wrong, but I should leave the grumpy retards alone because they will just get grumpier and more retarded.



Are you sure the problem isn't that many people take SL way too seriously?

Out in the real world, there are lots of different types of people. Usually they can get along without murdering each other. Not always, but mostly. However once you get people behind the anonymity of a computer, all their worst traits come out. The meek and henpecked become abusive and tyrannical.

I understand getting worked up if someone orbits you or sends you 2 sims away with a push gun. But someone bashing your avatar on the head with a giant non-physical worn mallet is not really hurting you physically. Nor is it racial, sexual, or religious intolerance. It's a vaudeville act. A gag. Comedy. Learn to laugh. Or at the very least, to tolerate.

How are you ever going to handle kids when you decide to have them? I guess this is what makes a housewife lock her children in the trunk of the car and push it into the lake.

How's that old saying go? "Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum."

If it is "THEIR" land why does it matter why you are ejected from it? You were not wanted there, so you were removed. What this boils down to is your lack of respect for other people and the property they own. Private property is the basis for all civilization, even in a virtual world. By refusing to respect property rights you are destroying the society you champion with your talk of "tolerance".

Made Famous by Bette Midler.

In English for those of you who don't read Latin "F*ck 'em if they can't take a Joke".

All you are really telling us is you think your rights as a Griefer supercede all the rights of Others. You aren't the first with this attitude and all i can really say in response to that is Enjoy your stay in SL, because it's Fairly soon going to come to a short, sharp halt, and all your Obfuscating will Not get your account back.
Have Fun.

Angel.

Have you ever run into one of those parcels where outsiders are banned with mean red words? Of course you have. People have their privacy there. If people don't want others coming to their land, they can go ahead and make it private, and I can't enter. Done.

If you're going to be a big sissy about it, you should make your land private, because social interaction is obviously not for you. Enjoy your time with your little wee doll house and whatnot.

If, however, you choose not to make it private, I can come and exist on your virtual land. I can dance, fly, run, walk, sit, whatever. You chose to make your land public.

And good for you who elect not to cut out everyone else. If every parcel allowed no strangers on it, what would be the point of even coming to SL? To hang out in the welcome areas and big empty Linden-owned sims? Fuuuuuuuuun.



Don't make me laugh. You're talking like a big baby. As the motto of one of my groups goes, "Did a griefer make you sad inside?"

How's SL society getting destroyed? Are people leaving in droves? Has the Lindex crashed? Are the prims sagging? Hardly. Things are as good as ever they were.

You're just lucky to have good ol' 0h Mercy around to spice things up, so you don't die of boredom.

I just celebrated a year in SL. Happy Birthday to me.

No, unless I am advertising a service or good upon my property INVITING you onto my property, it is private. Like I said this all comes down to your lack of respect for other people and their property. Just because the property is virtual, does not mean that it is any less private.

And I said "society" not server assests. Society is much much more. But someone without the ability to understand basic respect for others, probably, does not understand the basics of civil society.

In an eariler post you brought up having children. Well I do have a small child. She is being taught some very simple rules.

If it is not yours, don't touch it.
You do not go onto another person's property without their express permission.
Treat others as you would want to be treated.

These rules have nothing at all with a sense of humor, a person can have a sense of humor and still show respect to others. A skill you appear not to have learned yet.

Well, which one is it? Should I stay off everyone's property, or should I treat others as I want to be treated?

I want people to come to my property and make silly jokes. And set me on fire.

Seems you don’t get it…

On the property of others, you should behave as the owners wants you to... you don't like it, then leave.

For me (and with many with me), people are welcome on my land… as long the respect the simple rules set there… which are for me: no weapons, polite and respectful behaviour towards those on my property, locked doors are locked with a reason…

Now I don’t expect people to know this right out of the blue air… although things as polite and respectful behaviour are pretty logical to me. For the things that may not be that logical I will ask friendly to listen to those rules… if not listening, I will ask once more direct and more clear… if still not listening: eject & ban.

You don’t like this? Your problem.

Morwen.

That's about the first sensible thing that's been written by anyone else but me in this thread.

Hmmm, ran into a self-appointed police officer in Braunworth just this morning. It was in the wee hours. After 10 minutes of downright abusive speech and behavior from him towards all that would pass by, I had muted him. Not before making a rather pointed comment about his behavior and lack of speed/wit when replying to my frankly, terse and smarmy replies. He was probably radioing his griefer pals for things to say to me. *giggle* Anyway, after his demands for respect and acknowledgement were ignored, he proceeded to call in eight or nine of his friends to sit in revolving chairs that emitted sound spam while nuke-mining the entire station's area.

Afraid to say, this is far too typical behavior from would be "police groups". It was interesting to hear some of the poor newbies begging for information how real SL In World police could be contacted, to which to wit - there aren't. Despite all good intentions, there are going to be jokers clowning around as SWAT and uniformed officers trying to make a "good time for all" by acting in accordance to their own agenda. In this case, this fellow and his friends were also offering the chairs that emitted the spam and spin to any passerby saying he would pay $L30/15 minutes if you joined him. "Portable camping chairs!" he decried, and soon Braunworth Infohub was nothing but spinning chair sitting folks, the majority of them this "police group" offering newbies money to join them. (Which they never paid at least in my observations)

I just sat there, sipping tea IRL and finished my script doctoring and simple prim build in my HUD. I wasn't going to let these fools ruin "my good time" and kept on doing what I do until I finished. Too bad they scared, bombed, coerced - and when that didn't work, bribed people to join them in their spamming efforts. Quite funny and sadly, as stated before; typical of this day. All this from an "Officer of the peace" no less.

To the poor people that really want to make a diference? The odds are against you. Public opinion of "police" and "Security" of any kind has been long turned against these officers and honest ones alike to a fault. Ever hear the expression that a cop was a thug with a badge? It is unfortunate but applies in SL as well. Without an officially sanctioned, trained and consistant Linden provided police service - anyone's free to strap on a gun, badge and walk tall in their cowboy boots. The same thing was allowed up until very recently in the state that I live in. Common citizens could rise to the call of duty and justice by just walking the walk and wearing the "tools" of the trade. Some of them were good old boys, but far too many were evil snipes in blue until local and federal law shaped them into being....er...well, official snipes in blue. Honest cops are either new, or haven't been on the force long enough to be corrupted.

In a world where you can literally be anything you can imagine, those with little imagination often gravitate toward the most common symbols in their RL environment, and this is frequently police or military figures. Just as in RL, anybody can get a job as a security guard and put on a uniform and think themselves important.

But what I've noticed is that most of these so-called "security guards" are the most insecure people there are. Why else would they feel the need to get all dressed up in a blue uniform with a badge and a side-arm so they can get up enough courage to tell you where to park your car?

Sorry you took the first part of her quote out of context. Here is the whole thing reread it.

"Now I don’t expect people to know this right out of the blue air… although things as polite and respectful behaviour are pretty logical to me."


The second clause is just as important as the first. Some things you should not have to be told.

You have to take that with a grain of salt..or rather a handful Chris. Mercy hasn't said a whole phrase like that sentence that made sense YET.

Although your post seems to be missing some conjunctive vocabulary, I get what you're saying. And what I'm saying is that fence-building and policing is not normal. It's passive aggressive behaviour.

What you do with your rules and walls is not about griefers. It's about swinging your dick around to show everyone who is in charge. Look at me, I am in charge.

Griefers exist because there are people to grief. If everyone had the sense to look at someone who was shooting them with guns, and just say, "Oh yeah, that's cool I guess," and continue doing what they're doing, the griefers would lose interest. Griefers get their jollies by making people flip out.

You can mute people with noisemakers, you can ignore people, you can sit on objects to avoid being pushed, and if necessary you can even retreat to your own land or a non-build and non-script zone where they can't make things to hurt you with. But it's when you choose not to do any of those sensible things, and start crying WAH WAH WAH HELP ME MOMMIE LINDEN that griefers get ultimate satisfaction.

This, and your previous posts, indicate to me a rather peculiar position. It seems that you claim that certain people should be quite free to annoy other people, based on terminally vague criteria of it being "funny", but the targets of their annoyance are just being "passive aggressive" and "swinging (their dicks) around" if they respond by annoying the first group with bans, ejects, abuse and so on. I'm not sure that I see how this is consistent.

You have it backwards, it is the greifers that are out to show everyone the size of their "E Penis" . Why say "Yeah, that's cool I guess."? When the behavior is not cool. This was not about behaviour on "public" lands, but how you act when you enter someone else's property. You are the one who stated that they were on someone else's land, eavesdropping, spying and there to "annoy" them. That is the behaviour that points to a mental disorder not protecting private property.

/me wonders if the OP is beginning to recognize what she is up against.

Steven and I had a Very long Chat in game. He's well aware of what he Faces now, he's also aware of All the Strong, and Valid Objections that people have to an Unsactioned SL Police Force. He Honestly wants to be of help, and i think now he sees a New Tack to take. The problem with all the previous "police" groups is they saw Only one solution to the Griefer Issue. There ARE other options, and Steven has seen them now.
Lets see where he, and his group go with it from here.

Angel.

Well hello everyone.

I love how this thread has kept going. It is opening up a dialogue between everyone. Something that has been needed for some time now.

Angel,

I thank you for showing me other ways to do this. My group has taken new stances on just about everything because of what you and the other members have said. We won't wear guns... ever. We won't wear uniforms... ever. We won't patrol... ever. If a member breaks these rules, they are booted. Period. We have also implemented other rules as well.

Everyone,

The system that Angel and I talked about is rather complex, but I believe it will work because it comes up with other ways to take care of griefers. These ways are much more effective than just pushing people around with a gun... lol


Angel, I would also like to thank you for being generally supportive of me. I know I sound like any noob who gets himself into the police group, and I thank you for seeing my heart, so to speak.



-Steven

I'll qualify this a Bit by saying the system Seems Complex to describe, and yet so Elegantly Simple to Impliment, Maintain, and Police.

I've read several of these threads on Police, and "Super Hero" groups in SL, on what Is, and what is Not a griefer. I've heard (And held myself) all the concerns placed here. My stance is exactly the same as it has always Been. I am Completely set against Vigilantism. When i presented my Concept to Steven i had seen something at work on a smaller scale, and it worked Startlingly well and None of the concerns that people have here ever becoming an Issue.
He's still got work to do, Trust to Build, But i think this does have the Potential to stop Policing in SL from being a Dirty Word.

Angel.

Hey,

Didn't see this anywhere, so I'll ask. I'm new, so bear with me. Last nite my partner and I were in our rental, and two men with tophats and monacles smoking really long cigarettes tried to enter. They circled the house and at times spoke English to one another and other times not. They were able to move the cigarettes inside the house, like a hose, lol, but couldn't enter the house themselves. They were accompanied by a man dressed in black, labeled an Investigator. They spoke, I think, Swedish...but not sure.

Efforts to eject them, freeze them, and tell them to stop were fruitless. I filed reports on them, which I've not received any further info on.

Anyone run into these characters? What are the cigarettes? LOL.

Chances are they were not actually on your property, so ejecting and banning would not be possible. But any objects an avatar is wearing can pass through property lines even if the person is banned.

A title can be anything you want it to be, so I doubt these people were one of the "police" groups mentioned previously.