anti-griefer / security groups in SL

Howdy!

I'm trying to find groups in SL that are dedicated to preventing griefing. Groups that help popular places keep griefers out, react to griefing when it happens, and educate the public about how to deal with griefing.

I already know of :
* Proactive Security
* Justice League
* S.L.A.M
* SL Anti Griefers' Guild
* Green Lantern

I'm looking for more of these type of groups.

I'm *NOT* looking for groups that :
* are just a bunch of guys in military uniforms who want an excuse to shoot something/someone.
* regularly break the ToS.
* are just roleplay groups, and don't interact with the real problem of griefing.

I *am* looking for groups that :
* are active.
* abide by the ToS.
* actually make a difference in the battle against griefers - that accomplish things.


Anyone know any suitable groups? If yes, please reply I'd be most grateful.
Cheers!

I just know of the Justice League and Green Lanterns.. haven't experienced the others, but every police group I've seen is greifers.

Yes, indeed these groups tend to turn into bad behaviour themselves... allowing themselves things that are no good... feeling themselves as "protectors" better then the rest.

Apart from that, such groups have no power at all. If the landowner (or persons with enough rights) of the place they are says "Get lost...", there is only one thing they can do.... or the landowner can enforced it (this as simple example).
Anyone is basically welcome on my land... as guests and nothing more then that.

For myself, I am not interested such groups and will not allow them to be active on my land. I can deal with griefers very well myself. And if it is really needed I well contact Linden. That is more then enough.

Edit: And the newbies that I find in my house I don't see as griefers. When they are polite and respect my privacy, they are welcome... if they do not so, I can handle that myself.

Morwen.

The main thing I've seen the Justice League do is pass out nonphys vehicles and try to get every nongreifer out of harms way, including baiting to get themselves as the target rather than another person.

They also have rules agaisnt meddling- they don't step in to offer to mediate etc unless it turns intoa firing match in the sandbox (for example). Only when asked, unless its something like people randomly bombing a club.

Green lanterns have scripted rings, not sure how strong the scripts are or exactly what they do, but I imagine nonphys and shields, at least.

I just recently joined a police force. It is under the group POLICE DEPARTMENT. It seems like they are a good bunch of guys, with our Chief Officer being a police officer in RL. I don't believe it will ever become a griefer force because of the command structure he has in place (i.e. Captains, Lt.'s, Sgt's...) I have found a piece in our rule notecard that should interest all of you...



CIEX

We are setting up a central criminal information database (CCID) this is in order to record and register the name of known SL griefers. Our aim is to make the public aware of SL's worst so they are rightfully banned and scorned. We encourage you to give out as many as these notes as you can, and to promote the CCID system. We want to setup multiple mailboxes in the regions.

What happens when the greifers start wearing yellow? and attacking with Banana phones? the Green Lanterns would be powerless.

OMG.. aren't default prims kinda yellowish?

Bye privacy... Weakest point of such systems? Two or three persons don't like you and before you know it you are noted as an griefer...

Morwen.

One of the biggest problems with 'greifers' is actually defining exactly who is a greifer and what is termed as greifing?

One persons interpretation of a greifer, wouldn't always be shared. At that point there is a danger of becoming judge and jury. I agree that very few of us actually like anyone interferring with our 'lives' in SL and may consider anyone who doesn't share those 'rules' as a greifer. For the most part, 'greifers' are attention seekers, or they can be someone who doesn't 'know the ropes', someone that doesn't share your 'standards' of sensibility or acceptable behaviour. Someones idea of fun, isn't always shared either.

In the very nature of SL's coding, it allows certain 'features' to be used/abused (depending on your point of view) when interacting with others. It is hardly unintentional that the ability to shoot someone was overlooked. Someone who doesn't share your point of view could be considered a greifer.

For my money, if the ability to do 'harm' to others by way of explosive devices, shooting someone who didn't want to be shot at, and being able to rely on TOS that are enforced, was defined better, then maybe only verbal abuse would exist?

If only real life was so simple, to be able to alter some code and do away with the vast majority of Police Forces, security, law courts.... then maybe stretch that to being able to prevent anyone parking in your favourite spot?

No he SAYS hes a police officer. I demand proof before I believe any of those claims. Badge number, rl name address etc, and a random webcam shot (live) where i can compare pictures. Perfectly clear images only.

Otherwise, its just his word.

I had to cover tip jars for a 'police department' begging for funds for money in the sandbox. Even if the founder was a police officer he has as much authority as the greifers. None. Zip. Nada.

Those notrecards are also completely unreliable, and ause mor eissues than they prevent.

Depends on the GL. One was powerless to wood, one to yellow, byt Kyle Rayner had no powerless I think. (except maybe copyrights as he used ALOT of movie spoofs)

Talking about copyright... Are the Green Lantarn(s) not a old (Marvel?) comic?

Morwen.

Do I get a pitchfork and an armband? Where do I sign?

Who watches the watchmen?

While not part of a group, I, and a few others in SL, will gladly help others to learn how to deal with griefing and on how to set security for thier lands.

All within the guidelines of the ToS and CS.

Group lands are easily protected as the Landowner can enact Abilities as well as purchase low cost security devices to assist in specifically designated persons to be allowed to use the Linden set griefer tools on thier land. ie, LandBan, Eject, TP-Home.

While using other weapons on Damage Enabled land is 'legal', I strongly recommned against this course of action for any individual, or group. This only antagonizes griefers and can enter into a grey area of CS violations.

Groups that go anywhere through SL to combat griefing are walking a very fine line and are courting with the danger of a ToS or CS violation themselves. I highly admire thier outlook and the desire to help, but in the current environment, the only persons with the authority to do so are the Lindens. Unfortunately, they won't as they continually say they are not a police force in SL and can not possibly cover allthe area. On this last, I agree. SL is much to big for complete coverage.

However, I would suggest any groups that wish to put a dent in griefing do things a bit differently. Instead of trying to stop griefers themselves, educate the people. Both landowners and non-landowners. Teach them what to do and, more inportantly, what not to do to avoid getting in trouble themselves.

The more pro-active course (and one that will be a difficult one) would be to gain enough Resident support to force LL to act as the police force. While they can not be everywhere, they can police the 'hot spots'. They can also have a much as they can set to handle all the calls. While not all can be answered on time, some will and will drive the griefing incidents down as a result. If LL can be called to the carpet to enforce thier own ToS and CS, then griefing will take a drastic drop in occurances.

Obviously, getting this point across to LL, and then actually getting LL to do anything about it will take taime, and a large concentrated group of Residents to hound them over it through proper channels. LL needs to finally see that thier idea of Residents handling things on thier own is not an option when the rules LL lays down prevent us from doing so.

~Jessy

Now this could clearly become a ToS issue:

ToS 4.1 (iv) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden Lab at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable

Where is this database maintained? Who controls the names on it? What are the grievance procedures if my name is placed on it? How do WE know YOU won't use this as a tool for blackmail, persecution and griefing?

THERE IS NO NEED FOR POLICE IN SECOND LIFE!! Landowners and their assignees have all the tools they need to deal with griefers. Freeze -> Eject -> Ban -> AR

Max

Max nailed it.

Freeze--> Eject --> Ban.

End of story. Next.

DC, not Marvel.

I stand corrected .

Morwen.

To those who think SL does not need to be policed (by LL, not by Residents as I have stated in my previous post):

Guess again.

Landowners are not always on, so can not be there to take care of public lands (ie shops, malls, clubs, sandboxes, etc). Group officers, the same, and many work alone, not with others.

AR's are a means of reporting, but, by thier nature, are slow. LL needs to investigate each as anyone can report anyone for anything. What's the truth is what LL takes time to find out. Sometimes they can't, so the AR is held in stasis, or dismissed.

Freeze>Eject>Ban only works for the more 'dense' griefers. Any of them with half a brain will be back (with an Alt perhaps) and cause real problems. I've helped many friends to setup security, and part of that is thinking of how to get around it to patch the holes. I'll tell you flat out that landban could not stop me on the Mainland, and would only slow me enough to make an Alt on private islands.

As long as the free unlimited number of alternate accounts exist, we will have this problem. To this, I have no solution. I'd say to stop free accounts, but that's not possible. A lot of truely good people are on free accounts. Griefers only account for a very very small percedtage of idiots.

A LL system to call on actuall staff in-world to deal with griefing would help curb it very much. As I said before, it will not be able to help in all sistuations, nor even to respond to them all due to the sheer scope of SL, but it would have a noticable impact.

There is a problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away. Working with the system and with the management on ideas is the key. If Freeze>Eject>Ban>AR works for you, great. It does not for a good portion of others, so discussion is a good place to start and get like-minded people together. Not of like mind? There's other threads out there.

~Jessy

For the same reason that recinding the "Free Accounts" decision probably isn't a realistic expection, nor is expecting Linden to take a greater role in grief management... short of providing us more tools or more functions to handle things ourselves.

Not that I agree with their policy here, but its clear to me that Linden is more & more attempting to take the stance that residents should solve their own problems, and leave Linden out of it. They dont seem to feel that their staff is scalable enough to appropriately handle such a thing.

Grief management is most transparent, and most fair when its handled by Linden. However, they appear to be unwilling to reliably get involved unless its a global attack of some sort. If they continue on with this stance, it is inevitable that resident-provided solutions will eventually fill that void - for better or worse.

I got on the trail of a griefer today in Goguen Sandbox - he came up to me with a big spinning block and kicked me into another place. Someone in chat had said they were being griefed, and I got back to where I was and the griefer had dropped big concrete shapes all over other peoples' work-in-progress. The griefer was still hanging around as I clicked on the concrete to find its owner (the same griefer, surprise!). Then I went away and sat on the ground and followed the griefrer using the camera controls. I IM'd him explaining he was being watched and photographed as I snapped him. I also mentioned his name in chat a few times.
This griefer had only joined SL 2 days earlier, although, of course, it might just be an additional account.

I have to say I was almost enjoying myself, taking on the stupid griefer at his own game!

Well, seeing as my post was quoted multiple times.... I would like to thank you all for your advise. I understand where you are all coming from. I listened to you same people in other forums, so when I came upon this police force, I was VERY cautious about it being a griefer force. And to tell you the truth, the "jury is still out" for me if I will stay in the group. I only want to HELP people, and if this group doesn't/won't do that, than I am out of there.

One other thing... I really do wish that you would give some groups/people a chance. It seems to me that there is a predominate pessimistic view on here about most things. I would ask that you just give people a chance. I know that you have all seen things go bad, but sometimes, just sometimes, things can turn out for the good.

I mean you no disrespect, but I have slowly come to the conclusion that this is the wrong approach. It's not a matter of pessimism for me. It's a matter of realism. What these people desperately need is attention. What better way to provide this attention than to have a police force? It's official recognition for all their griefy efforts. It's precisely the game they seek. Install such "good" forces, and SL becomes a combat game: "Good" vs "Evil." No thanks.

There are two distinct camps:

1. Event griefers, targeted group griefers
2. Random newbie griefing


The first is a matter for landowners and LL (report, ban, etc). The second is best simply reported, but ignored.

Griefing goes far beyond that which occurs on private property. Go to Help Island Public, Any Linden owned Sandbox, or any welcome area. If there is no Linden presence, there will be griefers. The same ones over and over again... From nuking, caging, and item spamming (I have screen shots of a few hundred mutliprim boats floating over welcome areas), to less destructive, but just as offending things like intolerance, and sexual harassment. Left unchecked, certain griefers don't give up until they crash sims, then move to the next one... A friend of mine joined SL, only to be immediately orbited upon leaving help island. After logging on and then off, was caged and had penises shot at her from some kind of penis gun. She's done with the game, never to log on again. That could have been a future island owner, shopkeeper, or monetary contributor to Linden Labs... But it's the free account, the griefer, that is still here.

I don't know what the solution is. Reports don't seem to do anything, even if you've highlighted a griefing item and reported it for proof. Calling for help has brought lindens to help and welcome areas in the past, but it only results in a 3 hour suspension or the like. The next day the griefer is back and doubling his efforts.

I'll admit to taking a hardcore approach to anti-griefing. I know who's going to start up when they get there, and the first time a nuke case is drawn, or cages start flying, I run a script that removes said griefers from whatever land I'm on, private or public property. Am I breaking the TOS? Yeah, probably... But I'd rather have people complain at a welcome hub that it's boring, than have them all swearing because they keep getting caged or orbited.

You fail to recognize that in the months and years past these types of groups Have been Given thier Chances,Many Chances, and they ALL end up following the same Pattern until they are Indistinguishable from the Griefers they are supposed to be protecting the Grid from. I'm not surprised that SL Citizens Look askance at those newer groups who say "Don't worry, we won't do that, We know how to do it right." because Frankly, it's all been said before.

"Mute>Boot>Ban>Report" Has been, and Remains the Only consistantly effective means against the griefers. New group, or Old, these would-Be Police have Nothing New to Offer, it's just the same old Line.

Angel.

Angel,

I understand what you are saying. Believe me, I really do understand. You see, Angel, I am in college and I am taking many History courses. I am in effect a History buff... I know the odds on these things, I know that many have failed. But you know, that is life. Someone comes along, says they can do something... and then they screw it up. Then someone else comes along, and it happens all over again.

It is amazing how many times throughout history someone screwed up. That doesn't mean, however, that everyone should stop trying. Not to be rude, but one can't simply judge my or anyone else's intentions based on those that have tried before us. If ALL the police forces have failed, then does it really matter if someone else tries? And if they fail, then does someone else not have the right to try again? I believe in hope, and even though this isn't RL, you can never give up hope that someone at sometime in the present/future will actually do the right thing.