Ready for a fight?

Here's a novel idea. I don't know how many people read these forums but I'm hoping there's enough who agree with me to cause a stir and perhaps get the merchants of second life rethink a few things.

If you are going to make your outfits no-transfer that is fine but the idea that you are charging the same and some times more for those same items is completely rediculous.

I spend on the average 5k lindens a week on merchant items in second life. I'm a good customer and for a given outfit I'll spend upwards to 1k not including shoes. if I'm spending that much the I expect to be able to do what I want with it after I am done with it.

If there are any other people out there pissed off by this contact me in world. Perhaps we can come up with something.

As a merchant in SL ... to be fair NOT clothes, I rely on the fact that my items are no mod, no copy...BUT at the same time I sell my items at way BELOW the average price, of course if somebody wants copy then I remove transfer and the price is altered.

IRL, if I buy ONE TV it doesnt mean i can have 10 for free, but of course i should be able to give that TV away. Once the customer has purchased the item I retain IP rights but THAT item is theres to do with as they will.

Marty

Personally I wish clothing was Mod/Transfer, but that's me. from a merchant's point of view, I guess, being Copyable is just as valuable to some people as Transfer, hence the price being the same. That's OK with me. Some stuff is overpriced, yes, but a lot isn't considering the effort to make it As long as the vendor says what the permissions are, I don't have much of a problem

Why? Although you clearly have your preferences, its not a hard-and-fast rule that one is better - some of us vastly no transfer, because it allows for copy permissions. I'm just the opposite of you, I buy a ton of clothing but won't pay nearly as much for no-copy / transfer.

Buying copy / no trans is like buying a life time supply of that outfit. You can never loose it, ruin it, accidentally delete it, you can make as many combined outfits with it as you like...

No it's not. Mod/copy clothing is far more flexible because it can be duplicated and sorted into multiple outfit folders which then only have to be dragged onto your avatar for a complete, instantaneous outfit change....as opposed to wasting valuable time searching for all those solitary non-copy/transfer items which are far less accommodating by comparison.

Not to mention the dangers of Non-Copy/Transfer clothing in a buggy environment like SL. When inventory corruption occurs (and it happens regularly), you better hope to god it doesn't trash those solitary Non-Copy/Transfer items. At least with Copy/No Transfer stuff, you're likely to have made copies...so at least you have backups.

If you're spending that much on a regular basis, I suggest you ask the merchants you're buying from to sell with alternative permissions. Many will oblige. (I have done this for my customers in the past, and merchants selling Non-Copy/Transfer items have done this for me because I will NOT under any circumstance buy NC/T clothing after the last bout of inventory corruption.)

Also - having been used a wholesaler by newbies in the past -- who bought my stuff and resold it to unsuspecting newbies with a $L200 markup -- I will never sell transferable goods again. Even if this is considered acceptable from a commercial point of view (don't most RL stores buy from wholesalers?), it is not when ripped-off parties see my name listed as creator and inundate me with their complaints.

Transferable items = work of the devil.

FWIW, I'm of the copy/mod/no transfer camp myself. I never have intentions of selling anything I buy, especially clothes. Copy allows me to, as mentioned above, safely modify something to work into another outfit without having to worry about original settings (screen caps are helpful for no copy items but such a pain). And there's the inventory loss thing. If an item is copyable, the first thing I do is create a folder called "original", stuff a copy in there and then play with the other, taking more copies as needed.

I reluctantly buy no copy in fact.

I don't think I see the resale value in clothes for SL. Like RL, if I don't like it, I'll just give it away.

I don't sell clothes but with houses I make them 'no-copy' because otherwise a big-time landlord could buy one house and copy it 100 times to put on their rental plots. I'd like to make them 'mod' but I don't because if other people see 'butchered' versions of them in-world, they are still listed as my creations and that reflects bady on me.

I make cars 'copy' because of the risk of losing one in a sim-border crash.

Making an item 'copy' and 'transfer' is potentially giving away all future profits to someone else, as I see it.

However, in conclusion, I realise that I have not answered the original question and I've been talking about something different!! Sorry! LOL

I go with the Copy/Mod/No Transfer crowd.

Sure, it'd be nice to be able to give an outfit to a friend, or sell it at a garage sale and make a little of the cost back...but I really hate the way No Copy items tend to get lost in my Inventory if I goof and include them in a particular outfit.

If you really want to give that item to a friend, buy one for them as a gift!

Most of the items I sell are reasonably priced and Transferable. If they aren't, they are mod/copy. If anyone wants a specific permission before they buy, I can always change it for them.
But if someone wants something custom made just for them, I will give ALL permissions. Just because I usually don't sell custom items.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Lilly

I prefer Copy/NoTrans

(The Mod to me is up to the creator. If they can without damaging their wares, then good, but if it's needed to protect themselves from thieves then I can understand it)

This topic has been widely discussed many times.

The general consenus is that if a creator doesn't sell things you like with the perms you want, go look elsewhere. *shrugs* There are thousands and thousands of content creators in SL, pandering to tens of thousands of Residents. Don't see what you want? TP to a store that does. Either that merchant will change their sales practice, go out of buisness, or is making a good profit from people that want the product they are selling, with the perms they have set.

The same goes for the price. Some sell cheep because there is no overhead. Some sell pricey because of all the talent/work that goes into their creations. If it sells, that means people think it's worth the price. Some will buy, some wont.

Different strokes for differnt folks.

~Jessy

Since we can't give people full permissions without endangering our ability to keep selling our products we have to pick one configuration or another based on a very limited set of options. Some people prefer transfer so they can give items as gifts or pass them on to someone else when they don't want to use them anymore. Some people prefer copy so they can put the item into multiple outfit folders. I'm not sure why anyone would get upset about either. It's not as if we have much choice. If a merchant sells their items one way and you prefer the other just politely ask the merchant to sell you one set up the way you like. I think the vast majority of merchants will be happy to do so. It's the same item either way so offering them at different prices depending on permissions doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Sorry off topic, but I would never buy a house that is no copy again, they can be so easily messed up when setting up, and what with a buggy inventory as well some days... I also look for mod rights so I can change the wallpaper to suit, it does not matter then the taste of the creators and mine differing I dont care about Transfer rights in these cases.

What we really want/need is a "copy/transfer-all" permission which allows you to make as many copies of the item as you want, and to transfer them, but as soon as you transfer any single copy of the item, ALL the copies you had made are lost.

Of course this suffers from the usual problem with new permissions flags..

after buying way to many no transfer oufits ill never do it again there are too many times i buy something and a few months later do not want it anymore so i sell it or give it away i never liked having numerous copies of the same outfit it just clutters up inventory

im getting to the point i dont like no mod clothing anymore either sometimes i want to shorten pants to fit into boots properly or make them tighter and i wont buy prim clothes that are no mod i dont have the typical sl female shape i need to mod them

i wont buy homes or buildings that are not mod/copy because i like to play with them take a wall out change a texture but like know i have the original in my inventory if i mess it up...as for landlords buying stuff like and using it all over put a disclaimer in your shop about it and make a special higher priced version for them

i saw this $12kL home i wanted but wont buy it because its no mod i cant take out some of the extra primmy items i dont need and adjust the house to suit my needs better but couldnt

Ack, I just realised why they can't do this

It's because you could drop copies of the item from your inventory into other objects and leave them lying around on your land, or on friend's land... it would essentially require a full scan of the entire asset server for every copy of that object you ever owned.

no copy clothes are a deal breaker for me.
but a house or something no copy is ok, as long as i can transfer it.

then I must be the devil LOL
I make clothes and some shoes and I make my stuff transfer

if someone wanted them copy no trans, I would change the permissions but not the price

I guess the reason I make them transfer is cuz I prefer transfer and also if someone no longer wants the item they can resell or give it away, thus increasing the exposure of my product

I cannot see the big hoo hah over transfer:

Copy is a must due to inventory instability.
Copy is a desirable for making copies of clothes in different outfits.
Copy is a desirable/must for houses when you've borked the build modifying it.
Modify is a desirable for turning your house into your home.
Modify is a desirable for prim clothes that don't fit.

I can see transfer is good for gifts but a lot of vendors offer a gift service (SL Boutique?)
I can't think of one article of mine I'd be bothered about clawing back any of the cost by reselling.

If I don't want something I'll delete it. It's simply data. It's not like shoving an Armani tuxedo into a furnace.

The inventory issue is a good reason to have copy items definitely. I don't use the make outfit option at all. I'm not interested in reselling stuff, Just hate deleting it when I no longer want it.

I guess I have been lucky, I have never lost anything due to inventory bugs. The only things I have found that I want as copy/NT are houses and cars. Everything else I would prefer to be able to give it away if I want.

No matter what their policies, I would never fight someone who ADDS content or works hard in SL for pennies per hour. Fighting ad farmers who destroy the value of SL is one thing. Fighting people who make it a prettier place is out of the question for me. Just shop elsewhere.

A better place for your energy is to band folks together and make LL do something about their crappy servers.

Fight? Oh dear.

Nearly all the clothes I sell are mod/copy/no-transfer. Victorian outfits typically have a LOT of prim attachments, and often require a bit of a fiddle to get that bow/bustle/overskirt in place. SL avatars are less standardized than RL people! So, they need be mod.

By making the items copy, customers can fiddle at will with them without fear of losing the original. Besides, now one can modify a few different outfits and have some of different colours, some with larger bows, what have you.

If someone wishes to give an outfit as a gift, they IM me and I direct them to my items on the SLEx, or I simply send said outfit to the recipient myself.

Really, "it's not a bug, it's a feature."

I also vote overwhelmingly for mod/copy/no transfer.

would clothing designers be willing to have 2 sets of the same outfit with vendors for each type

mod/copy/no tran set on one vendor
mod/no copy/tran set on another vendor?

that way everyone would be happy and designers would sell more since people are on both sides of the line

I've read loads of discussions about the merits of each set of permissions. People like one or the other. There was recently a poll on this question that can be found here:

/327/7a/195883/1.html

For what it's worth, 60% preferred No Copy/Transfer vs 40% for Copy/No Transfer

In my shop I go with No Copy/Transfer, because a slim majority appear to prefer this. However I am more than happy to offer Copy/No Transfer versions to anyone who asks. My in store notecards tell potential customers exactly this.

I can't offer both versions in store because I don't have enough room for all the vendors, and in any event I suspect the layout of such would be confusing. If anyone knows a good way to accomplish this let me know...

All my designs have mod permissions, because I know some people like to fiddle with lengths, fits etc.