Second life, no longer more free than the first....

Perhaps because LL hypes SL so much as a platform to make money.

I find Hip-Hop, and the Thug-Culture of demeaning women and elevating money to divinity "Broadly Offensive." Will Linden Labs be warning and eventually banning anyone responsible for broadcasting Hip-Hop through an SL sim?

I'm of the opinion this announcement has more to do with some huge corporate investor than the will of the masses, but I'm a conspiracist at heart so what do I know? I know a lot of people couldn't be happier when the gun was pointed at ageplay, but now that it's aimed a little closer everyone seems to be getting worried their favorite BDSM club will go the way of the dodo. I'm pretty sure the only reason this blog from Linden was even posted is because they're already knee deep in the changes they mentioned, but if everyone is so concerned with the "We Know What's Best For You" machine that's about to goose-step through SL, why not unify and organize. Put together petitions, public demonstrations, debates, meetings with LL representatives maybe even sanctions. Gather the owners, merchants, residents and patrons of the Sims in question and unify under a common goal to see how these changes, or changes not yet mentioned but soon to come can be avoided.

You missed suffer and comply as an option?
Not long before we hit 10k of sims...... and go back to 10k people online too.

Or because tier is expensive.

My guess is that what they're trying to do is to turn Second Life - for casual users for whom it is not a development platform, a creative tool or a business channel - from "something a bit like an RPG", to "something a bit like MySpace".

On the face of it this is an excellent idea. They cannot compete with World of Warcraft in the RPG arena - but the ability to build a virtual world is something that MySpace/YouTube/etc all lack, and MySpace has ten times as many users as WoW.

You could always find a skilled friend and create your own off the grid SL and invite your own friends to your server do whatever if you had the know how and means to do so.
Has anyone actually attempted this?

That's my main beef with the entire situation, and also why I'm a bit worried as to the end result -- they are very careful to specify "Real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depiction" very plainly and repeatedly, but then follow it up with "other broadly offensive content." I have no idea what exactly that covers, nor do (judging from the forums) any of my fellow residents.

The idea of automatic bans based on AR's without proper reviews worries me to no end -- are they going to just deal with their promise of 24/7 coverage with an automated system, because lord knows they can't even offer proper 24/7 technical support. I *don't* want my fellow citizens to have that sort of power, as it is too readily open to abuse.

It takes them two weeks to reply to a support email, but should someone "Disable Camera Constraints" and see me and a friend doing something they don't approve of in my orb-protected skybox over adult-content-marked land at 700m, I could be removed from SL permanently, and without recourse?

I'm not necessarily saying this will be the outcome of what their doing, but the craptacular way the blog post was worded and lack of actual details makes it a strong possibility.

I'm not sure foresight is LL's strongest suite.



Heh. Because the Lindens get all quiet. I'm still not seeing any real public information about how they plan on handling verification.

In the meantime, I'm going back to doing furry things in a leathery way to a fellow citizen. Or leathery things in a furry way. Until I get caught and banned by the right-thinking-citizens-brigade, or some random griefer who finds the power too much to handle.

Racism though is considered harrasement, and that is banned in the RL world too.

Violent Sex isn't banned in the RL world with Consension (SP?). Why should it be here?

I think LL is just saying it so the Media reads it and then backs off a bit. Then Linden Labs rubs there hands together and lets all the fun stuff go back on in Second Life!

and there lies the rub. LL dropped the ball when this issue could have been nipped in the bud earlier, now to cover their assets, they are implementing a "Rat out Your nieghbor" type policy which will end with lots of innocents getting banned for something minor.

Your Second Life would, because other area's are more populated now due to the lack of sex. This could mean a higher rate of griefing, economy changes and massive sim closedowns.

It's very relevant, because when it affects a large group of people, chances are you'll be affected, one way or the next.

So that more rogue reporters can log in and catch everyone going "hee hee hee" and pulling one over on the world?

The issue is a complicated one, filled with personal opinions and biases when it comes to what is morally right and wrong. It's why the world is the way it is today. Child pornography is wrong, period. Digital/drawn child pornography? It's not real, but it's still a visual representation of child porn. It's wrong for me, personally, but is it wrong for you? BDSM, homosexuality, violent sexual acts, beastiality, furry sex, it's all a personal decision. But when faced with action from a government, sometimes companies play it safe, even at the expense of their players.

I'm one of the creative types -- AND some of my art projects & the imagery in them might be considered "broadly offensive" by some people. Does that mean I don't have the right to pursue my creativity? Not all Art & "creativity" is Happy Little Trees and G-rated, family-friendly Disney-crap content.

so the only ones who are worthwhile to SL are those who are creative?
am i to pack up and leave because i dont contribute anything you deem acceptable by your standards?

please say it aint so Broccoli say it aint so.......

maybe its the tone of your responses Broccoli. usually, i find You to be a refreshing breath of reality, but with some of your posts regarding this matter its easy to see why feel the way they do.

yes i did have another post regarding this but i changed it, live and let live and all that.
the crux of the matter is this: many agree that with the last big scandal changes must be made; however, giving those who are human, no matter how enlightened they claim to be, a new way to grief, is irresponsible of LL. many here do contribute something creative be it in, they way they build, to the way they act. limiting a format to just "creative types" is extremely elitist, and will only bring out more harsh feelings.

as i already said, very fucking elitist of you.

If you can't say what you want without resorting to profanity, I suggest you go to the library and find a dictionary to learn some new words.

Broccoli

if you cannot argue the substance of the post and prefer to harps on its delivery maybe you should stfu because you obviously dont have much to say.

Your post *has* no substance, only a claim with more profanity than evidence.

When you have something to say worth responding to, then I shall... until then, take your own advice.

Broccoli

and still very fucking elitist.

but please, be mindful of your manners. personally insulting each other could get this thread closed quite easily, so feel free to debate the subject.. just be respectful of each other. (that doesn't meen nod and smile at every opinion expressed, it means don't attck someone personally when confronting their view/s)

-

some personal thoughts..

i do have to agree with something Broccoli mentioned.. the lack of creative expression in today's world of SL. i also feel this is true.. i remember a much more creative atmosphere in a much younger SL. on the other hand, i don't think these regulations would help or hinder that fact.. it's really quite seperate.

if a bunch of non-creative types and a bunch of creative types all leave.. sure, there'll be a bit of a depression in content, but it would be soon filled by others.. either those who would see it as an opportunity to fill a void and have less competition while doing it, or those who are new to SL and just do what they do, filling the void by simple rules of nature (virtual nature?).


also, when LL mentiones "anything else broadly offensive" they're just covering their side of it. if you limit the rules of what's unacceptable, then people will go outside of those rules and say "hehe.. well, i can still do THIS". so, it's a simple matter of "just in case".

while i think some rules would be good (banning RL photos of child sex, for example), i can't really get behind a police force of residents that could so easily be used for griefing. we already have user-created police forces, "morality police" and BBB types of organizations. giving them the means to pool together under one banner and have a (basically) direct line to LL saying "ban him/her/it/?" could be horribly crippling to the society of SL and easily used to discriminate against anyone for any reason.




now.. fight nice.

I have to disagree. I wasn't here in the "Good Old Days" when people had to TP uphill in the snow...both ways, but i find SL abounded with Creativity. I along with my good friend Colette built a house, and made some furniture (Ok I mainly supervised). We created. On the island where I live all sorts of custom made homes are popping up. They are created. Everyone who makes something whether it's for personal use or to sell are creating. Do an extent our avatars are creative. We design them and outfit them according to our tastes. So I see enough creation in SL to make Darwin have a fit. I just think in some minds, these things are too pedestrian, don't meed some high minded elitist criteria to be deemed worthy. Art is highly subjective. A canvas of random brushstrokes and paint drippings can evoke 2 things Put my name on it and people say "WTF?" Put Jackson Pollocks name on it and they pay 2 Million Dollars for it. I studied music in college, although not my major. I am well grounded in th Classical realm, but my real roots are in Jazz. The attitudes of some in the Classical world that Duke Ellington is less of an Artist than Beethoven is still common. But it also is common in Jazz as well. I am a huge Beatles fan. some feel that Lennon and McCartney are as valid as songwriter as Burke and Van Heusen. Nonsense. A particular piece of art may not be to your taste, but it is not any less valid a statement as what you may prefer.

Brenda, you're right.

creativity comes in many forms.. i'm not doubting the difference in creativity between a grand upside-down castle in the sky and a pair of shoes.

my viewpoint is a bit jaded from when i knew a small world of a couple dozen sims mostly filled with people creating wild stuff left and right (The Spook house, Time Plunge, the Giant Beanstalk, etc..). there were still plenty of not-so-great builds.. we had junky stuff then just as we do now. (not my opinion on some one else's art/creativity, but seriously junky builds.. half-finished and untextured or ad spam)

it should be noted that i've had this thought since very early in my SL residence. i have always wanted to see SL pushed further and further.. creatively and elsewise. always thinking, what will the future bring? then.. what about after that? and while thinking about these things.. what can i/we do to help bring the positive aspects of said future to fruition?

so you see, i'm not discounting that there is a plethora of imaginative and creative builds/ventures in SL, just that i would like to see them more prevelant. to see boundaries pushed.. especially when it comes to myself! i could do so much more than i have.. and continuously strive to get myself to do just that.

The thing is, Cybin - there are plenty of us who do both, who are here for the whole range of experience and are also creative types - and we feel horribly threatened by this, because LL hasn't just changed the rules, they refuse to say, explicitly, what the rules are.

I feel trapped. I have never griefed anyone (except the one time I pelted my friend in the face with toilet paper). But now I stand to lose my primary source of personal income, one of my greatest social outlets and my friends. Why?

Because LL has decided to make broad statements and put power into the hands of residents who can barely agree on scripting technique, much less "moral values". I have no faith that fairness will be used to determine offensiveness, or even logic; I could easily be AR'd for something I've made months ago by someone who finds consensual play offensive.

That's what gets me - I have been orbited, harrassed, called names, run into minors and had people try to defraud me. And I have AR'd them dutifully, and they are STILL IN THE USER LIST, some of them a year later!

I have no real hope that I will be in the user list in a year.

Coyote, i hear you loud and clear, which is why i said this:




also, i didn't mean to disclude those who are here to simply enjoy SL. far from it.. i'm just saying.. i always saw this world as an amazing wonderland and hope that it doesn't get turned into a simple money-based society. i'm not saying there shouldn't be ventuers concerned more with function than form, just that i don't want to see "form" eroded.

and i think i may have been a bit off-base and too generalized when i said the new regulations wouldn't really help/hinder.. i was just thinking in general terms.. that "broadly offensive" omissions from the grid wouldn't mean a loss of creativity in whole. but i think i could be off-base there as well..

so i'm basically retracting that statement.. to hamper any (ligitimate) form of creative expression would most likely have a ripple effect (or Butterfly Effect) on the rest of the community, creative or otherwise.

I'm on board with Cybin. It seems distressing however that some of the most close minded and dictatorial voices are coming from those who claim to be in support of creativity. Usually they are at the Vanguard, even at the very edge of the issues. Whether it personally affects thenm or not.