Second life, no longer more free than the first....

Well for my self Ash, though I do not engage in any sexual roleplay, I personally do not care what you do privately or in areas desiganted for those activities as long as it does not involve underage Av's (No accusation intended.). As with any form of sex practiced IRL it is none of my concern, and honestly should not be anyone elses as long as it is behind closed doors, it is consetual, and does not cause undue harm.

Everything has it's limits. As long as people remember that I do not think much will happen to those that are not doing anything wrong or harmful. Given the fact that no physical harm can be done in SL, that leaves emotional harm and if the acts are constual no intentional harm should come from them.

Well you might be right about Boot's, Sainsbury's and John Lewis but Asda is owned by Wal-Mart and Tesco are taking over the world

However if you could teleport to Lisbon, the common denominator factor would kick in. That's what we have here. If you go to Edinburgh for a business trip and you've forgotten your toothpaste, you're more likely to shop at a brand you're familiar with.

However there are little bits of world places created all over SL. People will create what is familiar to them, there are plenty of different styles around.

I'm beginning to find the Cultural Elitism exhibited by some here to be broadly offensive.

Ya know, I've been on SL for longer than my name states. I've been here thru so many changes its uncanny.


And let me tell you how it was back then....

It's the same as it is now. Their wasn't massive orgies at the starting points, yes people did come around flopping their penises around but that was delt with by the lindens. It was NOT total chaos.

Griefers were delt with and hell we didn't even have this push block controls we do now. They will always be in SL no matter what is done.

Do I like the KKK? Oh god no. Should they be allowed to express their views? Yes.

BDSM, Ageplay, etc SHOULD be allowed. LL is based in california, USA. Not anywhere else. They only have to uphold US law for internet based companies. If they tried to please every government, SL would be basically dead in the water.


In the end, yes LL makes the rules we have to follow them. But changing rules in the middle of a game is unfair and unjust. And this is the situation going on now. However changing it to say "Anything broadly offensive" is so as it states, broad, that they could twist it to be anything.

I'm one of the 70% of Second Life that does not come from the USA, so I am not totally up on a 200+ year old document, sorry.



If that was the case, then why are so many people denigrating those of us applauding Linden Lab for taking that stand, and making us out to be some kind of wierd freaks and the ones in the wrong here?

Broccoli

Because the same philosophy that gives you freedom to defend LL's Policy and it;'s supporters gives them the same freedom to denounce that policy and it's supporters. You should not be attacked personally, but once anyone places their opinion out there the are fai game for criticism.

Not really, there are successful lawsuits going on against LL right now,
if LL trys anything wrong, take them to court.

Because they are upset. Because they are speaking from emotion, and not reason. When you are attacked, your natural reaction is to attack back. And when you make statements that allude that only people with your standards and morals are creative, naturally people are going to be offended.

I don't wanna see lots go, but I would love an SL where what you just described was taking place. SL is becoming...well I can rarely find anything interesting anymore. I know I have to look harder because of all the sex, camp ads, and FREE FREE XXX FREE FREE signs, but that really takes most of the enjoyment out of it, now doesn't it?
I look as SL as an artistic outlet for the most part, so an SL where the creative people could rebuild it in a positive way would be so cool...and beneficial to those residents who weren't creative that DID stay and all residents to come to join SL in the future. I don't think we should ban sex, I think the Lindens are getting a little weird about the whole thing now actually, but having a completely creative world again instead of huge ads every 10m would be a really great thing.

**To clarify before I get yelled at**

I in no way want to see people leave SL...but it seems some have their mind set that they will if Lindens start banning sex, camping, ect

Actually, I think you'd be in for a rude surprise, as those leaving would include many (most?) of the most creative, talented, and capable people in SL - because these are the types of people who would give a damn even if the changes didn't affect them personally. If a world in which people do nothing but leave their avatars dancing and buy second-rate clothing is your cup of tea, well, have fun.

There are? I thought there was only the Bragg case at present.

Not everyone has the means or inclination to file a lawsuit for every little thing. You have to remember that 70% of the playerbase is not from the USA, and thus won't be caught up in the litigation culture so prevalent over there.

For most cases, it wouldn't even be worth the cost of filing. Remember that only a small amount of people make any real money worth bothering about from Second Life.

Broccoli

Sorry Brenda, I respectfully disagree. No company, group, or organization can discriminate against you based on race, religion, or sexual orientation. You just wait until the first banning due to someone being a furry, a gorean, or being gay. Long string of lawsuits coming.

Chew on this.

Broccoli is able to enjoy the SL he/she wants to enjoy, nice and clean and free from the trash-littered alleyways and desperate mean streets of some places others like to stalk. All anyone has to do to avoid such things is ... to avoid them. Simply don't visit those places.

But Broccoli wants to eliminate the freedom of others to enjoy those darker places.

Savvy, now?

I say that's trite, illiterate, and a poorly considered position to take. THIS is the position of those speaking from emotion...fear, distrust, disgust at anything and anyone they find different, or alien or strange.

THOSE are the people who slowly over time become self-satisfied, self-righteous bigots.

I call a shovel a shovel. And if you want to keep slinging manure...grab the handle.

Actually, I'm not eliminating anyone's freedoms - Linden Lab are doing that, and I'm supporting it at its face value - although given LL's history, these things are often far from settled from their original announcement.

You do realise, of course, that it's not always easy to avoid questionable things in SL because people don't list things properly in search? I could easily avoid all the 'adult' content if it was all labelled in the 'adult' category of land, and didn't verify myself... but that involves landowners of 'adult' stuff actually being responsible enough to change their land as required by Linden Lab (not me). Then they complain when someone reports them for having their land in the wrong category.

Broccoli

And why can't peeps like Broccoli stay in the designated PG areas? I signed up and invested in a world that promised freedom of expression and now feel like the "flim-flam" man just left with my purse.

Originally Posted by Darien Caldwell
You have the right to express yourself just as much as anyone, but people also have the right to express their displeasure and disagreement with your expression.

That's fine, express all you want, but don't look at me if you don't like me! Last I checked this was a game for grown-ups. GROW UP!


Funny that, the same thing could be said about those who want total freedom being intolerant of those who actually prefer some limits to be set.

Broccoli


STAY OUT F ADULT SIMS! It's that simple. If you're an adult, limit yourself. If that's too difficult for you, buy the SIMS and you can create a whole new world just for yourself and never have to worry about being offended again.

the theory is so nice, so easy, everybody do what he wan'ts as long as it doesn't mean annoying the hell out of other peoples.

Its the best way to do things, why caring what you do or i do or they do, its so simple.

BUT

We have peoples out there, that are unsure of themselve, peoples that are afraid of what peoples think of them, peoples that would like to be relaxed, thinking they are in the right and that its the others that are in the wrong.

So we have peoples that want to outlaw or forbid things, cause they are afraid to be in the wrong, they can't possibly conceive that they can be.
While we could all live in harmony.

Slaughterhouses are gruesome and gory, you want to outlaw peoples that actually enjoy slaughtering cattle ?

We live in a mad world where peoples whant to impose their way of thinking at any cost...

It is sad, and it will be our downfall i think.

One day or another.

Whether you wear the jackboots, or stand on the street cheering them on is practically indistinguishable. At least in my jaded eyes.



Then for the love of all that's decent, make THAT your rallying cry! I would stand beside you totally! Let sim owners who practice deceptive advertising and vague descriptions pay the price for their deceit. Let them choke on losing their land and accounts because they decided a crafty "sin of omission" might net them a few more dollars in pass-through traffic.

Don't punish those who provide clearly-labelled, accurately described environments for consenting, mature adults to enjoy. For Pete's sake, they're the ones abiding by the bloody rules!

Except it isn't quite that simple. You ever seen how little "PG" land is generally available?

The land we own is on a "M" sim but is not set as 'adult content'. That's where I am happy, and can do anything I feel the need to do. I don't care if people swear, but I do object if I log in and find a couple cybering in open chat in the middle of our sandbox (which has happened several times).

I'd buy a larger plot of land and have fun building if I could ... but decent amounts of land are overpriced both to buy and own. That, however, is another thread.

Broccoli

The issue of 'land rating' is, however, not apparently included in the blog post.

I think the blog post is too vague and a bit over-reaching to be honest... but, as is often the way with Linden Lab, there's an original post, then some outcry (anyone notice how it's always over a weekend) then a clarification post or two until it all goes a bit quiet?

I think that if they had said "on 1st August, we plan to implement these changes to what is and isn't acceptable on certain land types; behaviour X Y Z will no longer be permitted in "mature" regions, in 2 weeks we will add the "adult land" flag and adult verification for those that want to access them, then you have 6 weeks to sort out your land and verify if you want to" then there wouldn't have been half the outcry there currently is.

Broccoli

Um... okay... hang on. Last time I checked there was a tonne of land for sale -- cheap. And there are tonnes of auctions.

Please someone tell me what is preventing people from being creative?

If you don't like casinos, clubs, brothels etc., then don't go there! How on earth are they oppressing those who wish to imbue SL with creativity and education?

*scratches my head*

I own land on three sims now, most of which is open for the public to explore, enjoy and be educated if they desire. No one has oppressed me or prevented me from creating something beautiful.

Help me understand how "the darker side"* of SL is limiting creativity and education.

*I use this term very loosely and do not wish to cause offence (I am, after all, a kinky little neko apart from being creative, warm, reasonably intelligent, giving and generous).

A utopia with total freedom never will exist and never has existed. Linden Lab tried it and as usual it failed. This is because humans are humans and all look at things differently and we have those who will use their imagination for "evil" instead of good. I'm not sure what made anyone think that a lawless society would suddenly work inside the framework of a computer network. We are all made of the same fabric just we are emulating ourselves using pixels instead of being flesh and blood. All types exist in this experiment we call second life just like existed in the wild west and afterwards. Some people are fairly tame and dont get into any trouble really because its just not the way they were brought up and would not consider it. Others will use any excuse and loophole to do whatever they want and abuse freedom. So along comes the "law" its predictable and a natural progression.

If you can tell me that no rules has worked then please demonstrate so as no rules has done nothing except to cause this so now the rules start.

I also prefer Linden Labs to do this then some form of vigilante justice "mob" who self elect themselves as the moral compass of SL.

It also means that soon Linden Labs will clearly define things for us and not leave us to judge. This would be good since one of the biggest issues is often what is defined as bad content over good.

The reasons well Linden Labs as a company has chosen not to reveal them all but its pretty easy to guess if you read anything and inform yourself. Is it the right thing? I would say probably as they are not doing big brother here and saying you can't go into your virtual house and do whatever it is that they dont want to see. Are certain things still illegal even if done in privacy? Well of course and if you get caught well there is a penalty just as there would be in real life.

I guess I get surprised that people think that somehow Linden Labs is immune to outside laws and regulations and therefore using their sims and whatnot somehow makes you immune as well.

IN any event second life has become popular enough to draw in the criminal element. This is par for the course and will never change the thing is now they have to do something about it.

As for "free accounts" I dont know how anyone expects this to become a 3D version of the internet without free accounts as I can't recal having to pay to read 99% of websites on the "regular internet" now. We pay to purchase an item, view "prOn" that is legal and play games etc. Although I do view second life as a game its moving towards what its wanted to be over time and is step by step getting there. This is not and never has been sims online (where pron in any form was pretty illegal under their TOS me thinks..) its supposed to be a "metaverse" which over time more and more reflects the real world looks to me like its reflecting the real world.

The lawless utopia social experiment has ended and again (as so many people keep trying it) has failed and for all the same reasons it will always fail. One person with a little bit of a sociopathic tendancy to want to hurt others comes along and the entire thing caves in on itself as people scurry to try to exert some control over the guy to stop him from his rampage of grief and hatred.

/shrug

I tend not to

When was the last time you saw something that wasn't a casino, club or mall (or combination) anywhere in the popular places list?

What draws people is money. Plain and simple. If people aren't getting paid for being somewhere (or have a chance of winning some) then they won't hang around long.

Our sandbox averages about 2000 traffic a day (it is quite small) but that's because we provide a service for people who aren't necesarily here just for money.

Broccoli

My sim draws 30k a day,
and that is with a telehub that kicks anyone under 14 days old,
and we don't give out "money" or have "money chairs", or sell anything actually,
we lose money on it.
But yeah, we are that "dark side" because we are an RP sim, an insanely well built one, that provides a service to the SL community, but, still "dark side"

As we do with the Stratics HQ - ok, not as much as you perhaps, but we're at the limit of what we can justifiably use as disposable income with no in-game recovery of expenditure. Some have more money to spend, some have less to spend... it's just the way life goes.

I don't know what "RP" your sim is, and can't get in game to look right now. Care to share?

Broccoli

SL has nothing to do with an utopia.

we don't need to harvest crops, grow cattle, manage transports

we don't need anything of this as this is purely a simulated world it doesn't has any need of order.

The only rule we need is not to annoy eachothers.

All the rest is just A impose his thinking pattern to B .

There is no "good" or "bad" way of thinking it all depend of the context. But in sl we are in a simulated world. Like an outlet to our imagination. Peoples shall understand this. All we do here is output our imagination and we will find peoples that don't like what they see in your head.

Its sad.