Second life, no longer more free than the first....

First of all, I am an adult. In my first life, I am free to express my sexuality however it is I wish, and with whomever I wish so long as its in private, or in a place meant for such activities. This brings me to the latest blog announcement. While I don't disagree with the crackdown on ageplay, I do disagree on the crackdown on violent depictions of sex. There is a very very large BDSM following in second life, all you need do is type in ROLEPLAY, GOR, or BDSM, and you will see how much traffic is involved with this sort of depiction. Second life offered the promise of the ability to do things you cannot do because of safety issues, and physical restrictions. Here you have the ability, or so was promised, to live freely and do things that limitations in your first life would have prevented. Now, all of that is changing, and the reason is because of community standards. I agree that the community should be able to decide what it wants to see, and very easily they can. On every sim where this kind of conduct is embraced and enjoyed by thousands of people, it says very plainly what will be experienced. It is ones choice to walk into that situation and see that or not, just like it is my choice to go ahead and do so. I think the worst thing that linden labs can do right now, is put more limitations on what one can experience in their second life. The human imagination can be a scary place, and contain things that may be offensive to others, but you can avoid it. Maybe make sims put a tag or something on their sim, that makes it unsearchable unless your looking for that specific type of roleplay/conduct.... but to say because the majority of the community, which I know in this situation is not the case, is simply not a good enough reason in second life. In my community, if we did things by what were only morally accepted by the majority, gay people would not be allowed in public.... Of course I disagree with that, and think people should have sexual freedom, the community should not have the right to impose their moralls on others sexuality, especially when its their choice wether to enter the realm or not.... its like someone complaining about homosexuals after entering a gay club. I want freedom in second life, I even go to sims labled with what I want to enjoy, and your saying LL, that what I enjoy I'm not allowed to enjoy, not even in private or on the sim I paid for... I would love an explaination.

-Ashley

Linden Lab make the rules, we comply or suffer. Your choice.

That concise enough? If not, try reading one of the hundreds of other threads beating this subject to death.

Broccoli

Well, perhaps if the subject is beat to death long enough, they will actually realize that they are limiting freedom in a world that had so much promise because of it. I understand Linden Labs obviously makes the rules, I'm disagreeing with policy, which in this place and in this "FORUM" is my tool to do so, and I will utilize that tool.

Not really.

Racism isn't allowed in Second Life. Isn't that infringing on the freedom of members of the KKK to express themselves in Second Life?

I agree with you that there is a lot of promise and freedom in Second Life - however, I would suggest to you that it is because of that freedom - and the responsibility that comes with it not being considered - that Linden Lab have had to take this action.

You can disagree all you like, but whether there's one thread with 1000 replies or 100 threads with 10 replies, won't make a difference to Linden Lab. They've obviously had a cause to make this change - which they have chosen not to share with us - and a few players complaining isn't going to change their viewpoint.

Broccoli

Perhaps if LL had taken more responsibility themselves earlier on, such Draconian measures would not be necessarynow.

Very true. I always said that the "hands off" approach would eventually bite them in the butt, and it looks like with the German child porn thing, Marc Bragg and casinos, it has.

Maybe, however, good can come out of this. If a lot of people leave, those that are left will be the creative types, that can buy up the cheap land that will inevitably become available, get rid of the ad spam and some of the hideous builds that blight the landscape, and we can start to rebuild this world of ours.

Those of us that are left, anyway.

As I said elsewhere, we may lose 50,000 people that were only here for the sex .. but may gain 100,000 people that wouldn't be put off by getting to the welcome area and finding someone flopping a 10ft penis in thier face.

Broccoli

It is your right to disagree, but throughout history and really with anything, policies can be withdrawn, people can make mistakes.... and lets not pretend, linden labs has made many mistakes and withdrawn some. I believe that such a broad definition as what linden labs described in the latest blog post, is a mistake. I think that, if your going to go through with this, give it a place to exist. As for the kkk, etc... its not as though its readily accessable, or im saying allow marches down noob island..... if there was a place, away from everyone else.. for instance a clubhouse for them to speak about their beliefs then by all means have at it.... its your choice to do what you do in your own privacy, and thats what the situation is here. Im not forcing rape or violence or anything on anyone, these things are being depicted in places that clearly state that is the "community standard" of that sim, so your point is not really a valid one in this situation. I'm not saying people should be allowed to run around and spout off their free speech about racism etc... I'm saying that no foul is committed if it exists in a place where that is the expectation.

I have a laser tag set. When you die, you scream and flop to the ground in a 'dead' position for about 10 seconds, then come back to life. That's not 'extreme violence'. The same thing, but add an exploding head, blood splat particle effect, and entrails that stick to the walls, is.

You see the difference? It means that in public places (ie anywhere that accepts other visitors) people will need to modify their behaviour a little, but in your skybox somewhere with just you and your partner, you can do whatever you like and the chances of getting caught are remotely zilch.

Broccoli

A 'few' players because LL doesn't allow non-verified to post in the forum. And they've limited the blog responses to 100.. so, no they aren't going to get an honest feed back. I swear, this is like watching my son stick his fingers in his ears and say, "I can't hear you!!!"

Well, I'm starting to see this policy as an opt-in, because the only way it'll work is if people choose to AR. Don't want things to change? Don't AR.

There are racists groups on SL. But I see it as they shouldn't be able to report abuse when they provoke it. There was a guy in some skinhead group went into a huge urban clothing store with a chaingun. He started shooting at people and I am not sure if had orbit bullets or not. Since the store had build/push disabled, HE was more of an annoyance than anything. Well, when everyone left the store, she followed thinking he could have some real fun. Well, as a step by step description, he got the following done to him by 2 different people.

Trapped (twice)
bubbled
Smoked
Burned (twice)
Spammed (I think twice, not sure)
Blitz into the ground.

About 5 minutes of torture. The guy finally crahsed and never returned. Was a nice show to watch and I've never seen the Bubble/Smoke combo before.

So, it may be illegal, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As long as people create multiple alts, LL is wasting their time and text.

So, for LL to actually follow through, it will be surprising.

That is where I feel the wheels will come off. keeping all this off public spaces is to be applauded. But i just feel that this policy as announced will empower individuals with agendas to seek out "objectionable behavior" anywhere they can find it, even fabricating it if it suits their purposes. I relayed an anecdote in an earlier thread where an individual witnessed an Ageplay based sex act and used it to extort land from the the alleged offender.

So, you want freedom...but would also like restrictions on freedom?

The KKK should be allowed in SL...just as long as they stay private?

The gay clubs that frown on straight people going into them are ok too? or is that wrong also?


I'm so sick and tired of hearing this crap about freedom and open expression. Lets face it...if there were no rules in this world, it would be absolute chaos.

or are you saying that some rules are ok...as long as they don't infringe upon peoples rights?

hmmm
ok.....have fun climbing out of that box you just put yourself into

That's the impression I get too.

"Everyone has the right to express themselves however they wish, unless I disagree"

and

"I am allowed to inflict my standards on others (as a freedom of my expression) but others cannot do that to me".

Sadly, as a game title, "Anarchy Online" is already taken.

I think you'd soon find that if there really were no rules, the only people left here would be the griefers.

Broccoli

very fucking elitist of you.

You'll find I'm not alone in feeling that the creative side of SL is badly under utilised, and that's why there are so many copycat mall/club/casinos around - so much emphasis is made on making money, the truly wonderful places that will never make a L$ in their lifetime either get overlooked, or just never happen.

Your post content, by the way, could easily be considered "broadly offensive" by many people because of your use of profanity.

What do you contribute to Second Life? I don't recognise your name.

Broccoli

Many of the "creative types" surprise surprise are equally adventurous in their erotic imagination. This is not an us-them issue, and getting rid of people who like RP sex does not mean SL will suddenly be left with only the creative. It may mean, in fact, that SL is left with the busybody types who can't get along with people different from themselves.

Broccoli said:
"What do you contribute to Second Life? I don't recognise your name."

Relevance? And does it matter that your name is only familiar to me from this forum?

Funny that, the same thing could be said about those who want total freedom being intolerant of those who actually prefer some limits to be set.

Broccoli

"Funny that, the same thing could be said about those who want total freedom being intolerant of those who actually prefer some limits to be set.

Broccoli"

You probably think that makes sense.

There are so many copycat malls because that's what attracts many people. There are copycat malls the length and breadth of the UK too, you go to any major city and you see the same shops, the same brands, that's the way it works. However in SL the creative types can create if that's what they want to do, they don't have to see a bank manager who shakes his head and says that isn't viable.

Unless of course the creative types you talk of are only here to make money

However the idea that less will equal more just doesn't add up in a world where big brand names are making more of an appearance.

It does. Should I translate it to another language for you?

Broccoli

The difference being you don't need to travel in SL.

Say I live in Plymouth. In town is a Tesco, Boots, Sainsbury's, John Lewis, Asda etc etc because people just travel to their nearest for convenience. I'll not go all the way to Edinburgh just to buy a tube of toothpaste, would I?

In Second Life, with p2p teleporting I can travel as far as Edinburgh, or Dublin, or Lisbon if I choose in a few mouse clicks in a few seconds to get something I could get locally if I wanted to.

Broccoli

Well it's funny that the sort of uncreative types making all these clubs/malls/casinos are going to be the only ones left after this. Enjoy SL meets Wal-Mart.



Freedom of expression is not a standard, it's an inalienable right that every person is born with, or are you not up on the U.S. Constitution? Freedom is not limiting. You have the right to express yourself just as much as anyone, but people also have the right to express their displeasure and disagreement with your expression. It's a two edged sword. Be careful how you swing it.

So limiting the creative freedom of adults engaged in writing a piece of erotic fiction actually STIMULATES creativity?
Really? Hmmm. Because I thought any reasonable person would be led to assume it would have a decidedly chilling effect on such thought.
Broc's definition of creativity is? I have no idea. Maybe it's building pretty flowers, or scripting a neat-oh woody for a quick spin down to the beach and soda shop where all the rest of the squeaky clean kids hang out. I just don't know...but more power to him/her. I hope he/she continues to enjoy SL as much as everyone else.
Ummm. Except for those perverts who insist on marring their Linden-given avatars with those grotesque tribal tattoos. How hideous.
And those ... well ... things that walk around like furry ... things. That's just wierd. What kind of sicko would want to do THAT?
And that reminds me of those OTHER freaks who...

And ya know what...that list ain't ever gonna end.

Freedom...true freedom...encourages the tolerance of others. And SL has taken pains to include rating and warning systems that identify sims which contain adult/mature material.

If you don't LIKE it...then don't visit those places. Good lord! Is that so bloody difficult?

But keep your jack-booted conservatism saved up for the other weak sisters who enjoy being spoon-fed soft, pre-chewed and above all "safe" food.

In my mind...a world run by sheep is just as barren and lost as one populated by wolves.

But the wolves would have a helluva lot more fun.

"snuff films" ... faces of death and the like used to be XXX.

No we see people dying or dead on the news daily.

I don't buy this "extreme violence" nonsense.

The 1st Amendment, in regards to Free Soeech stipulates The GOVERNMENT shall not hinder an individuals free speech in public. Your employer can contril what you say in their business, a homeowner can control what is said in theuir home, a bar owner can have you thrown out if your language is unacceptable, etc. LL has similar perogatives in regards to SL. The Constitution doesn't apply here. And even if it did..a lot of residents are not US citizens, so they wouldn't be covered by it anyway.