Sex Gen Removed!

Craig Altman: guarantee you, they are pirated.
Johan Durant: guarantee you, they are pirated. He does not even sell full perms to the public.
Nytemyst Grace: says right in her profile. "My "POSE ME" Poses are NOT freebies. They are NOT to be redistributed in ANY form. Please IM me w/ a LM if you find these in world." (note: at the 1st of June, she has started selling some builders editions, though, on the top floor of her store.)
Parsalin Gullwing: Search does not turn up any valid locations for Parsalin's store, and the LM's provided by the picks in Parsalin's profile for "No Parcel, Gotlib" take you to an empty lot. I have dropped a notecard on Parsalin querying the status of the animations.

The flipside of that is that anyone who does try to point anything out instantly gets jumped and accused of this and that.

Anything that gets sent to the viewer can be copied, although whether any existing "copybot"/"copying tool" is capable of it is another question.

(Permissions exploits is something different entirely so I'm just assuming there aren't any)

* textures: can be reused by UUID, or by ripping the texture and reuploading

The net effect is really the same once they're applied to a prim. The original copybot simply grabbed the texture key and reapplied it to a different prim (you wouldn't want the texture blacklisted in this case because it's using *your* texture).

(Sculptmaps aren't any different than regular textures, they'd be equally vulnerable to either UUID reuse or grabbing and reuploading)

* scripts: never get sent to the client (either in source or bytecode). If they're mod they could be copied (you could copy them yourself with a copy/paste)

* prims: probably doesn't need too much explaining by now

One thing that is often missed by people is that the "no modify" permission is nothing more than that "you can't modify this". The only reason you can't see the prim params in the official viewer on "no modify" prims or prims you don't own is only because the viewer has a "can modify selection". If it's set to true, you'll see the prim params, if it's false they're hidden.

The viewer (or anything connecting to the grid in general) always has all prim params of everything around it, it can't render them if it doesn't.

One thing that might be missed as well is that things like particles are prim properties so the viewer will have those as well. If you have a prim that has a particle effect that's static (it never changes) then it can be copied despite the "no script copying".

* animations: while scripts can't play animations just by UUID, the viewer can. So just because a bot can play an animation doesn't mean it actually copied that animation.

That said, the sim just sends the uploaded animation over to the viewer and while there's difference between the .bvh file you upload and what makes it on the asset server it *might* be possible to copy animations.

Someone who knows something about the actual animations files would probably have to look at the before and after and see if it's easy/hard/impossible for a definite answer

* shapes: probably copiable for anyone around since the viewer would need the shape params to adjust everyone's mesh

* clothing layers: just a texture(s) with some params on the asset so see textures/shapes

The original copybot didn't actually grab anyone's clothes, it either grabbed the baked texture and uploaded it back to the sim, or told the sim "my baked texture is this UUID". Either way it didn't actually get the individual textures, just the baked texture.

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In all cases the copied item would *not* have the original creators name on it (except possibly for prims, see below) so if you're seeing animations with your name as the creator that you never released as full permission at one time or another then it's the result of an exploit rather than a copying tool.

For anything but prims, notecards, or scripts, the "creator"'s name would be the name of the avie that reuploaded it back to the grid. For prims that's not necessarily the case though: if someone at one point or another created a full permission prim then there's no reason why that prim couldn't be used a base for a recreation the same way any of us can grab a full permission Linden created prim and create something that looks like it was created by a Linden, never just put full permissions prims out somewhere, you have no idea what they'll be used for. The same would go for notecards or scripts: only the original creator's name is ever mentioned, if anyone changed it since then their name won't be listed anywhere (we really do need a "Last modified by:" as well).

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As a disclaimer, I never did actually use a copybot so whether any of the above is something any variation of copybot actually does do is for someone else who used one to point out, it's just a "this would be possible in my opinion".

The Second Inventory proggie would be a good reference as well. Other than scripts, whatever you can do with it on full permission items you created is something that a copying tool could do on limited permission items you didn't create since the restriction there is entirely artificial.

Not that I have any reason to doubt you, and I assume that you're correct, but it's always better to go to original sources rather than secondary sources.

Do the creators have their own official web sites, or sources of in-store information, listing things they know to be pirated? I won't need to bother them with IMs or notecards if I can see where they've already spoken.

Remember that part of the whole problem with this mess to begin with is that some (many) merchants are using parts in the things that they sell that they believe are safe and legal to use, but because they have no contact with the original source, have no confirmation that they are safe and legal.

Getting information from the best source is just simply a good habit.

*meep*! They better not delete all the red balls I bought from Bits & Bobs just because somebody else infringed copyright! I'm cool with getting replacements if we're 100% sure the sales records are complete, though.

I don't *think* I ever bought any full perms from NyteRave, but not going through my whole animations folder to check--especially because there *were* some free full-perms from that source, just not matching F & M versions. I'll bet they're still there somewhere.

Parsalin Gullwing's shop is at Formido Silva 197, 42 (can find with a Search for "Dark Side Animations". The shop has changed since the last time I've been here, but I'm pretty sure there used to be a sign about full-perm anims being available by special arrangement, or something like that.

Valid question, but this case has nothing to do with copybot.

agreed. Nytemyst Grace you can check her profile. Craig and Johan you'll have to IM. I could copy and paste here what they IM'ed me, but I'd rather not. That's just a slippery slope. Perhaps when you hear back from them, you can confirm to the group here what I reported.

Another question is what happens when the original creator becomes detached from the item in question? I have a lot of things in inventory that show as Creator (unknown). Has the asset server orphaned it? Did the ava who made it delete his/her account?

Right now I would NOT want to be Craig Altman or Johan Durant. They are about to be flooded with IM's and notecards.. Once word of all this begins to get out, I would expect all the major animators will be bombarded..

Now we do not know what is going to happen with the "pirated" animations that were also distributed with the Eva beds.. I use "pirated" because to my knowlage there is no way to "steal" an animation from SL.. So these animations must have either been bought as full perms and then sold without changing those perms, or suffered a permission bug at one point in their life, and so "escaped". Note that there have been several times when the permission system failed and permissions became all borked.

Now if LL just does a blanket delete on those animations where does that leave those that bought the animations properly? And what about all the customers of all the products that have used these animations?

I will also be honest here, I saw the makers of some of those animations and did wonder a bit about them being full perm. But by the time I saw them for sale I had seen hundreds and hundreds of items using them, all from different creators.. And right or wrong assumed that they must be "freebies" now.. There is a rather long history in SL of items losing their permissions and becoming freebies.. As I was just using them for my own personal use I did not see a need to bother any of the creators about them, rather thinking that if they were "stolen" there would be big signs in their stores about them being stolen. And I have been to both their stores many times in the last few months, and no signs about these animations.


Now a good question is what about the things that ARE using properly bought animations from various animators? I have several I have bought from Bit's and Bob's that I have used in some of my products, and yes I was very careful with the permissions. As stated here, I put a copy of them in the folder with the item, changed the permission there, and used that for building. I also give all my items to my alt to verify permisions before I let anything out "into the wild".

But now I have to worry about something I bought to build with getting loose, and LL doing a blanket delete on them? So now I will be afraid to buy a texture, or animation, even from someone I know is the creator. For if it gets "loose" and has a claim filled agasint it, LL's response will be to delete every copy in the world? That is a very chilling thought. I have not opened my store yet, so have not sold anything, so at least I am safe for now from angry customers, but I will now have to think long and hard about is it worth opening now?

Again it all comes down to just how are we, the creators and customers to know what is safe to buy and what is not? How do we be sure that what we buy today will not be deemed "pirated" next week and deleted? Even buying from a "name" may not help with LL's heavy handed methods. And until that question is answered by LL I expect there to be a drop off in sales in general.. Thank god I have not opened my store yet.

All and all I see this whole thing as a giant bucket of ice water dumped into an economy that is already reeling.

"Unknown)" doesn't always mean missing information, items will also display that in inventory if there is more than one creator (for example, anything with third party animations or scripts in it). It's sort of the same way that permissions are collapsed for inventory display. Rez it and use edit or inspect to see the real details.

This is most likely the reason they nuked all the infringer's items, rather than the animations; to cripple the pirated products without affecting legit buyers of the original animations.
They just forgot the little niggle that some of the infringer's other (legal) items had gone on to be used in legit products.

A good Canadian answer would be that it just shows the danger of allowing the private sector to be involved in the delivery of goods and sevices :}

SL is like a community. Just like RL. You chat with people that seem trustworthy based on their actions. Find out who they trust, and why.

And overtime you find people you can source from that are good in all kinds of ways, including being more interested in a relationship (um, in a biz sense I mean :}) than just in taking your money and never wanting to see you again.

It's human nature to want to look at the glass as being half full, but I am continually amazed by the number of decent, good people I meet on SL who will service the heck out of you for the equivalent of 25 cent US. I'm in biz in RL too (taking a slow day, in case you are wondering), and you just can't let the you-know-what's get you down. You put a coat hanger in your mouth to affix a smile to your face and get back out there and get on with it. (I'd recommend the occasional overproof Martini too :} )

I found Parsalin's store. It was a bit of work, but I did it via search all. I don't recall seeing many (any?) of the animations included in that bed. Maybe he's written it off.

Hello, No my animations are not for resell unless you have a no mod notecard specificly giving you the right to resell thos animations are from back when this mess began back when no one really realized how criticle it was to make sure you specified.

If your interested in a lisence for my animations i give the option to buy a lisence im me in game for more information thanks.

Dark Side (Parsalin Gullwing's shop) was up and running not long ago, and did include all of the anims in the bed that I'm familiar with. That's how I figured out they weren't intentionally free.

[edit] Ah, I see the man himself beat me to it. BTW, Parsalin, I have a set of MLP poses for your anims, and you're welcome to it if you'd like. I never sold it since I figured out they weren't intentionally free, and I doubt I could afford to buy the full perms rights.

I started making my own anims instead. Thanks for the inspiration, in any case! Also, I've bought a number of your poseball sets.

Was that notecard required to be included with the object? Some of the animations specifically said "for resale" in the description (give or take spelling) - how are we as end users supposed to know what is what? As far as we know, Eva may be a victim too - bought someone's sexbed engine BIAB and made her business. Chances are, she's not, but whatever - there just is no way to know.

As a shop owner I will try and shed some light on this subject. K I had about 50 items relying on these scripts. None function anymore, some were rezzed in my large shop and can be fixed, I ended up getting a solid script set from a friend and did issue a fix on a few items I sell. But for the most part this notion that you can just rez a new copy. Not so. A huge percentage is lost now, basically anything that wasn't inworld, is unable to be rezzed by me anyway. The scripts, anything with the partys names, all stripped from my inventory.

Notecards, prims, scripts, anything with the person in questions name attached to it in any way, gone. Unfortunately my first set of beds were made with parts of their bed, so they were also zapped from existance.

And for the record I didn't use any of those animations anyway, nor did I have any clue they were pirated or stolen. And for that matter, the parties in question didn't even write the scripts, they just sold them. I really wish an official press release would be issued, because nobody knows the reasons here. But I assume it was that the parties in question slole these scripts and sold them to, oh maybe a few hundred thousand items acoss the grid.

As a shop owned, yes I get nonstop IM's. I actually have since closed shop, I was debating for months, focusing on a new company. So that was the final decision maker in this case.

/me sighs.

A lot of the scripts and notecards removed were NOT because the person listed as the creator had stolen them; the scripts in question were released for use by the original creator.

They were removed simply because E.C. was listed as their creator. The scripts and notecards themselves were perfectly legitimate.

I'd bet that the license for resale terms were, like Craig's, limited to reselling anims that were *not* full-perm to the next owner. That is, the reseller was probably required to neuter the perms before reselling. At least that's what I'd require, if I were brave enough to do it at all.

(Of course, if the received anims aren't full-perm, this wouldn't be a meaningful distinction. And this doesn't address the question of whether E.C. was herself distributing the anims without knowing they infringed.)

To me, it looked as though EC bought the full-perms items and then posted them for sale as BIAB. If true, he deserves whatever grief he gets over this.

Hi folks, Chaz Longstaff just made me aware of this thread. That's what I get for leaving town for the weekend, totally miss some huge eruption on the forum that involves me. This certainly explains why I've been getting so many IMs about these animations

Anyway, I haven't yet taken the time to read the entire thread so I can't make specific comments or anything, but for now I did want to let everyone know that I'm not upset with anyone other than Eva. Although I normally don't sell my work full-perms, given that so many of you already have my animations and this could destroy your businesses, you can contact me for official licensing terms. Thanks!

So the bed I have with EC as creator, and a number of animations of other creators inside, isn't necessarily illegal.

I don't have a business in a box type thing, or a full perm type thing, but an end-user bed. Everything- prims, scripts, and animations- are all no-modify, no-transfer.

I bought it some time over a year ago, perhaps when the content was being used and sold legally.

BTW, for the record if anyone is curious, I spoke with linkin Slate on 26 April 2008. I had seen some of his anims in a freebie box, and tracked him down to see if they were pirated, and if so, where were legit copies being sold. He said he was now treating animations done by him as freebies. Again, as per Amity, you may wish to verify yourself with him.

FREE SEXGEN

I have spoken to my staff and we are willing to replace these broken
beds with a 50 anim SexGen. I feel for the end user here who bought
in good faith, but I also know that LL is limited as to how they can
approach such a pervasive issue. Not everyone is going to be happy.

That being said, if you will point your affected friends to this
thread and its specifics we will do what we can to get our fellow
enthusiasts back in the saddle

1. Contact Andrea Faulkner or Stroker Serpentine and mention this
post.

2. Provide evidence (rez or transfer) of your broken Eva Capalini or
Loni Arado creation to one of us.

3. Choose your style of bed from our shop here:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Eros/184/193/23

4. We will provide you with a FREE 50 anim SexGen bed.

This is a limited time offer because we do not want to be doing this
forever. But we feel it is the least we can do to support the
irradication of these agregious con artists. (and its good promotion)

Stroker Serpentine

Wow, Stroker, that's very generous of you! I wish I could take you up on it, but somehow I don't think you have it *that* deeply in your heart to give a copiable version. But on behalf of everyone else, it's wonderful and greatly appreciated.

WOW that is very nice of you to offer this to people. Very honorable and you should be commended. That you are willing to replace these items for people when you were the one ripped off is amazing.