What is "PG" Anyway

Okay I am tired of getting nowhere with the Lindens, so I thought I would post here even though I realise that there is a good chance that no Lindens ever read these forums !!!!!

Going off the last 2 weeks experiences I wonder if they actually read anything we, the customers send to them, Even the JIRA is woefully lacking in any form of action, and I am now wondering if the crash reports go straight into the shredder too. “Don’t take any notice of the guinea pigs and lab rats, even though they are paying for the priviledge of playing in our maze”. I am sure that is their motto.

I have about 5 support tickets outstanding from that time 2 weeks ago when the help channel was pulled, with no response from the Iindens except the proprietary auto-reply saying have you checked the Knowledge base. And as usual my answer is "Of course, but I couldn’t find any answers there, and that is why I used the support form". I am now waiting for their next auto-response, usually after 3 weeks..”Is it still a problem ?. If so send us a reply", and we will put you back in the queue for another auto-reply and further 3 week wait before we contact you again.

No I’m not missing a pair of shoes, and I’m not stuck in a corner, although I might as well be…The sim where my shop is for me is at an all-time crawl for a class 5 and all I get is 4 days later "I’ve popped across and can’t see anything wrong"….Ok why am I still juddering round then….. Ah I think I have now found out why, not thanks to the Lindens, but because my machine was running slow, so went to clear memory of little used TSRs…..Hey SL is using 1.4 of my 2Gb RAM, that is why my frame rate can’t get above 4 FPS………Been watching it since and unless I relog every 2 hours when I try to teleport with the RAM usage of SL is up above 1.2Gb, I know what will happen…Incomplete teleport and crash out because no RAM left. Guess what, yes it is in the JIRA and they are working on it, but they don’t know what is causing it, so obviously no idea when it will be fixed.

But never mind that…we have some great new stuff for you to play with…..Why??.. I can’t stay on long enough to play with it. All it will mean is I’ll crash out every hour instead of every two.

Forget the other support tickets guys, while I can’t stay in game it is useless having fixes for the other things.

And don’t get me started on the abuse report system/form. I asked civilly if there were any rules regarding blatant advertising and sale of genitalia in a “PG” sim. You want age verification and you want “Adult” Content clearly marked. OK there have been a number of posts on here about what is adult and what is mature. Well.. I know we the “PG” land owners are only a small percentage of the land available in SL, but why are we just ignored. There is no classification lower than “PG”. I bought the shop premises there because I did not want to be stuck In the middle of shops selling Dicks and Pussies etc, but guess what There is one or more here, so I was wondering, can I sell videos??? Or toys ?? Ok I’ll ask first seeing as the Lindens are making a big thing out of this “Adult Content” at the moment.

Guess what guys (and Gals) I am still waiting, the shops are still there and selling their stuff, How about the Lindens.. Oh yes I got several of them auto-reply things saying the matter has been resolved, and look at the Police Blotter for the outcome, but as you will see from the detail below, what good is it !!!!! 4 days after the event.

CAN ANYONE OUT THERE TELL ME WHAT IS ALLOWED IN “PG” AREAS.

This is what I actually sent them (specifics have been with-held to protect the “innocent”), following the first standard reply that said bugger all, and the second standard reply that said the same as the first. (If you haven’t seen their standard reply it is include at the end).


Email 2, following second standard reply email

“”Sorry Martin...

BUT SOMEBODY ON THE ABUSE TEAM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS BEFORE JUST SENDING AN AUTOREPLY.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS QUESTION IS NOT JUST BEING ASKED FOR FUN. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO DO IN PG AREAS. I DO NOT WANT TO FALL FOUL OF YOU RULES AND REGULATIONS IF THERE ARE
ACTUALLY ANY IN PLACE>>>>>>>>

STOP AVOIDING THE ISSUE..!!!!!!!!!!!

Anything in the TOS and in your community standards is so vague, and little mention is made of PG areas. And as I see no action being taken I do not know where I stand.

Regards

Astarte.

PS.... Looks like this will be a good entry for the forums the way it is going.””



Email sent to Lindens following first standard outcome email receipt

-----Original Message-----
From: Astarte
Sent: 18 May 2007 09:33
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: [rt.lindenlab.com #849696] Abuse Report Resolved: Abuse: "Clarification of PG Sim Rating and sexual content" RT#849696

“”Thank you for looking into this matter, but I am now still sat here wondering if I should be adding adult videos to my collection of items for sale. As:

The original reply to my abuse report told me I would be informed when a decision was made. OK, you have done that.

This outcome letter says it has been resolved, but you can't give me details, "check police blotter for any outcome if there is any". OK, I have no idea whether any action or decision was made. By the time I received this "outcome" email, the report made on the 13th May is not listed on the Police Blotter. It is already too old to reach to bottom of the list.

OK so what am I saying here. I don't know the outcome. All I know is the shop behind me on this "PG" sim is still blatantly displaying and selling Dicks and Pussies (adult genitalia) in his/their shop 4 days later.

SO DO I TAKE IT THAT THIS ACTION IS FULLY ALLOWED IN A "PG" SIM. AND THAT THERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS APPLICABLE TO THE "PG" RATING.

I also notice a new development on the area behind him, which is still a "PG" sim whereby there are now "S(xxxx) L(xxx)" apartments for very short term rent for a price, includes sexgen bed, sexgeen hot tub and scripted dance poles etc; just pay teleporter a sum to access. (Well I wonder what their intended use is for ?? ). Extra detail available if you need it, but there again, Is it allowed/ is it not; I have no idea !!

I am sorry I am not a prude but you are the ones that brought up this age verification and "Adult" Content, as there is nothing lower than "PG", I specifically bought property in a "PG" area to get away from these sorts of things. And if you read my first email "abuse report". I was asking for clarification of what the limits are, so that I as a shop owner do not stock anything that would infringe the "PG" classification. Unfortunately that question has not been answered, and so far the indications are that anything is allowed in a "PG" area.

All I was looking for was some form of general guideline of what I can and cannot do. The blogs contain hints on, what you can and cannot do in Mature and Adult areas...Everyone is worried about the distinction there, but "PG" seems to have been totally lost. I know everyone is supposed to be over 18 on this grid, but to label an area as "PG" and then not stick to the rules, whether it be an adaptation of the "gaming" classification or the "film" classification, does not really matter, that would at least give us all a standard activity/content acceptance policy for that area.

This is a "PG" sim it is not mature.. the parcels cannot, nor should it be possible to mark them as Mature, and therefore should not be able to contain Adult content which is even further up the scale. Until all your HOOHAA about age verification and Adult flagging, "PG" areas were not as popular.
I think I am right in saying there are less "PG" areas then Mature on the grid, and consequentially, the land tended to be cheaper, because of the community standard expectations for the limited use of this type of land.

Now it appears that several of your customers are now jumping on the cheap land alternative, to start their enterprises, knowing full well that there is a good chance they will not get noticed or may even be able to bypass any form of activity/content processing on these cheap land "PG" sims, And anyway if they get caught, no bother, they can just resell at a profit.
Sounds like Catch 22 for you!! “”


Their Standard final outcome email

“”Dear Second Life Resident,

Your Abuse Report has been investigated and resolved. In accordance with our Privacy Policy, Linden Lab will not disclose the resolution of abuse/community standards violations with Second Life residents, except when necessary to introduce a new or amended policy. Linden Lab will not disclose incident details including (but not limited to): identity of the reporter, details of chat logs, resolution of incidents, and suspensions or banning of Second Life Residents.

The Police Blotter, located on the Second Life website, <http://secondlife.com/support/blotter.php>, keeps a running record of abuse resolutions. Although specific information about incidents is not revealed, basic information about the most current disciplinary actions can be found there.””


HEY LINDENS .. How does the above answer my question ?????????

did you try emailing support?

Short of picking up the phone, which I refuse to do from the UK I have tried all ways to get through to them.

While I can give you no "official" response, I do think I can give you a pretty accurate one.

PG= Teeny tiny bikini's - no words worse that "Shit" - the occasional quick flash of a breast as long as it's tastefully done and fits within the surrounding content/mood - sexual innuendo but no direct sexual reference - The words Goddamn and other "blasphemous" Deity related derogatory terms may be too much for tender ears - Mooning is always allowed, especially it's it's a fat guy (for reference see "Pete Fats" - Violence in all forms but no excessive or gratuitous blood particles - The words "Penis" and "Vagina" must only be used in a clinical way - Popular euphemisms for "Penis" and "Vagina" cannot be used, or any mention of the particular parts of said organs, though the word "Goodies" is acceptable under any condition.


I hope this has helped.

The Entertainment Software Rating Board says.........

PG may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

as opposed to Mature that may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language, or worse.........my avatar.


thats what SL is, Entertainment Software, isnt it?, but thats a whole other thread.

Firstly: In PG areas, the following things are not allowed...

1. Genitalia (Reproductive Origans)
   
2. Swearing (Unicplicit Words)
   
3. Drugs (Pictures or use)
   
4. No sex animations of anykind and no pornographic material
   

With that being said, the shops outside of your land are breaking 2 (or more) TOS land violations. Im surprised that support didnt follow up how they shouldof...

Secondly: A good alternitive would be to write abuse reports on the land owner regaurding the land, (If you didnt already). Also, PG and Mature are based on Simulator, so you must be positive that the sim you are in isnt a mature sim.

Thirdly: Remember that LL is still in the process of implementing a new support system. Their support might not be so stable currently, but it will be soon.

Also try having a convorsation with the landowners (if you havent already), if they are too stubborn and arrogant to secied, then just continue with the support tickets.

PG means "Work Safe".

If it would get you escorted out of most stores or arrested in public in RL, it's not "Work Safe".

If it's something that would get you sent to Human Resources for a disciplinary write-up at most companies, it's not "Work Safe".

You're never going to get an exact list of "what's allowed", it's all open to some degree of interpretation.

If your best judgement isn't sufficient... or you're incapable of learning by example, you may be in for some trouble, I suggest you move to an (M) sim.

The Lindens will do all they can to avoid telling you what you can and cannot do in PG, I'm afraid. When they had live help, you could get a Linden out to remove offending objects from PG land. Now, who knows. I'm happy to tell you what you can and cannot do, as the self-crowned Queen of PG, but I'm afraid the Lindens don't respect my title.

I would say that your neighbors are flagrantly exposing themselves on borrowed time. They haven't been caught yet, but that's not implicit approval for you to do the same thing. The knowledgebase article basically says that if you have to ask whether something's acceptable in PG, it's probably not. Part of the problem is, SL is a multi-cultural community, and some things that are acceptable in parts of Europe, like nude beaches, are not okay in the U.S. But where nudity might be questionable, obvious sexual activity and the depiction thereof cannot be seen as PG by pretty much any culture, I don't think. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I sympathize with you. I also moved to a PG region to get away from crap I didn't want to see - in my case, it was a free sex bondage shop next door with real life bondage porn on the walls that were so close to my own store walls that I would get quite an eyeful when I was camming around my store. I moved into a more established PG region, where the biggest violation I've seen is prim penis litter on land that wasn't set to no-build.

My advice? Keep abuse reporting, and have some friends over to file abuse reports too. When it comes to abuse reporting, the more the merrier. Actually I think there has to be a cluster of them for LL to even look at them; they get so many.

The original post has given me one hell of a headache. Has anyone got an aspirin?

I work in Information Technology, have since 1990. Much of my job involves customer service. In fact, 75% of my job is related to that particular field. If ever I arrived at my office, logged into the helpdesk, and discovered the following...

"BUT SOMEBODY ON THE ABUSE TEAM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS BEFORE JUST SENDING AN AUTOREPLY.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS QUESTION IS NOT JUST BEING ASKED FOR FUN. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO DO IN PG AREAS. I DO NOT WANT TO FALL FOUL OF YOU RULES AND REGULATIONS IF THERE ARE
ACTUALLY ANY IN PLACE>>>>>>>>

STOP AVOIDING THE ISSUE..!!!!!!!!!!!"

...my motivation to reach out to this customer, and help them toward a resolution to their problem would be flattened. I would perform my duty, with all due respect, and close the ticket with minimal effort expended.

There is such a thing as diplomacy, and it extends in at least two directions.

zk

Pg is an illusion wrapped in a dream wrapped in an enigma.

Does it taste like cotton candy?

Unfortunately, you may be right about that, much to my dismay. But I'll keep trying.

This sounds more than a little insincere to me. First you move to PG land to 'get away' from things you don't want to see, then you want to find out just how far you can bend the rules yourself?

In your efforts to reach LL, you might want to go with a short matter of fact message instead of an insincere sounding rant, something like:

"Subject: mature content in PG sim

Dear Lindens,

in location [Sim x,y,z] mature content (sale of genitalia) has been placed by [avatar name]. This is a PG sim, so I would appreciate it if a Linden could take a look and remove the offending items.

Thanks in advance,
Sincerely,
[Your Name]"

If you send a message like this, the Linden in question can actually see what the problem is in the blink of an eye, and won't have to weed through shouting (please, leave the caps lock alone!) and ranting and attempts to get permission to break the rules yourself to get to the point. Making the support staff's work easier is a far better way of getting what you want than making their life harder.

What the hell is a "suggestive theme"?

I'm sorry, but that phrase has all sorts of implications which really worry me.

"Bow chicka bow bow... " is a suggestive theme.

What is "PG" Anyway???

Here you go:

http://kitchen.apartmenttherapy.com/images/uploads/2006_04_10-pg-tips-tea.jpghttp://www.pgtips.co.uk/]http://www.pgtips.co.uk/[/img]

Yeah but what if I'm listening to my oldest brother's Sha na na 8 tracks? (yeah right!) Is some nerd gonna molest me?

(Zappa yes! which could definately sound porno at times )

Apparantly the Mothers of Invention started out as a 'house band' making soundtracks for................. porno films! They'd project the film up against the garage (ahem... studio) wall and basically jam along to it.

Cah-tho-lick-girls!

To offer a serious opinion - PG in SL is idiotic.

Unless they planned on dumping kids upon us from the beginning.

Suzy? ... Suzy Creamcheese?

SPGL? very true ... no, I really do agree!

OK Suzy and all the others thta have replied while I've been asleep. I only suggested selling toys and videos in the replies to the Lindines to try and get some reaction.

O have my own beliefs on what is permissible or not in PG areas and that is one thing that is not included. There is such a meagre amount of PG land that is should be as it says "PG". If you want to do those things, then go mature, there is masses of that.

OK Is sim PG.... Do you think I am dumb...Yes it is along with 6 other nearby....I chose it because it was a PG sim.

And all this info you are all sending me doesn't seem to be what the Linden's believe. Action has supposedly been taken by lindens twice, yet IT is still there. So if that is Acceptable to the Lindens, what else is acceptable in "PG" areas.

And IT guy.....I did politely ask twice before I gt on my high horse about this, and both times all I received was a standard, dealt with reply, which did not answer the question I asked. I might as well gone to the knowledge base and picked the first article I saw on any subject and that would have been as relevent to my question as their answer.

I refuse to see how PG is any more idiotic than prim naughty-bits.

No way mistah.. I'm Toni Carbone!

See you at the CYO!