Well, I guess Ageplay is now Officially banned

My comments are in blod


exactly

I do understand the desire for liberty and free speech.

But quite apart from the pragmatic aspects of all this (managing to keep SL going and not shut down), I do think there is a difference - a lot of differences, actually - that depend on where something is taking place.

Other people have rights, too, and one of them is the right to be in a space that does not allow, for example, sex with child av's.

Of course, it is true, they could leave if they didn't like it.

I said long ago that I was glad LL forbade anti-semitic and other hate speech, because I wouldn't want to be in a place that allowed it, and I would have to leave.

So we have a case where a few want liberty to practice something many, many find very distasteful, abhorent, and in fact anti-freedom, and would have to leave over, rather than stay in the place that allowed such expression.

In such cases, I think it is reasonable to circumscribe the liberties of the few to practice the distasteful thing - whether it's sex with avatar children, or racist speech or behavior - in order to achieve an environment many can participate in without having to forego their own principles.

Otherwise, the many won't want to be here at all, and that is what LL faces here.

And for practical matters, it is true that sexual age-playing groups do attract those who would view and trade real-life child porn. For that reason alone, it behooves LL to ban any sort of sexual behavior using child avatars.

Liberty isn't really a matter of allowing any and all things, just because another person isn't physically hurt. That just ends up with an environment that is attractive only to the lowest common demoninator.

LL can't be faulted for not wanting that, but wanting a place most people can feel reasonably comfortable participating in.

And aside from all that - if LL hadn't done this, we wouldn't have an SL much longer to even argue over.

coco

You are completely and utterly wrong here. I really cannot stress how totally wrong you are.

Yes, both participants are adults. Yes, one participant is dressed and wearing a child AV for sexual purposes. And yes, October, that is being presented, is representing a child for the purpose of enacting a fantasy of adult-child sex. That is the PURPOSE of it, to fantasize that you are, indeed, having sex with a child.

There's no way around it. Yes, it's a fantasy, but it's a damn sick fantasy and it helps to perpetuate child molestation. It enables the pedo's. It FEEDS the pedo's. It brings what may be a closet fetish into the light and helps forms RL connections with others who want the same. ""SL, building pedo networks today!!! Join Now!!!!""

I'll even go further and say that pedophiles who have worked up the courage to dabble in this is SL are FAR FAR FAR more likely to try to work up the courage to do the deed in RL.

SL should have done more to stop this when they had a chance, even if it means (gasp) hiring more people to PATROL the grid, not just sit on their thumbs waiting for an AR.

I'll also say, yes, there are people in SL who want to play as child AV's who want nothing whatsoever to do with sex. This is going to be hard for that community as they try to defend themselves against suspicion.

Hey, I asked pretty please. Just for the sake of not repeating things

If you erase a harddrive full of .jpgs of RL photos of children that are now adults, does that mean it's not child pornography?

Pornography is media depicting sexually explicit or suggestive acts. 2 adult-looking avs having sex is media depicting sexual acts. Nothing wrong with that.

Child pornography is media depicting sexually explicit or suggestive acts involving children. Computer games are a form of media.

Honestly, I can't see why you're defending this. What kind of person would want to live in a world where fantasizing about sex with children (real or imagined) is permitted?

In the US. Ohh too bad SL is a world wide game and at the moment US players are actually in the MINORITY. And that means what? It means LL has to pay attention to not only laws in other countries, but the friggin MEDIA!!

Do you HONESTLY believe SL will survive the world wide bad media if this isn't stopped?

That's fair.

This is exactly the case.

In certain countries, however, depicting children in a sexual way as drawings or cartoons isn't illegal.

In retrospect I misread your comment. My apoligies. In any case it seems we are in agreement here.

By your reckoning then, furry sex is really about having sex with a dog, or a cat or a dragon? Because the av is depicted as an animal and not a human.

Same with child labor, using children in war and forbidding women to vote, work, dress the way they want, or not get executed for adultery.

That doesn't make it right.

Extradition?

My thoughts on this remain the same:
Where children are concerned adults need to stop being selfish and concerned only with their own nasty pleasures. That means that there should be no tolerance of even virtual or graphic depictions of child rape as it blunts the impact of social taboos and puts children at risk.

Im afraid your ire is misdirected. I'm not the one defending pedophilic behavior.

Hate speech should be banned - in public areas, in open chat. However if someone wants to say whatever about whichever racial/demographic/etc in IM or on, say, a private sim where no one else can get into that is fine. Just as people should be ably to practice whatever sexual kink they have in designated or private areas.

SL is private entity owned by LL and free speech as a consitutional right does not apply, I'm afraid.

Hence the bits in the TOS such as...

YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT LINDEN LAB HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NOT THE OBLIGATION, TO REMOVE ANY CONTENT (INCLUDING YOUR CONTENT) IN WHOLE OR IN PART AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND.

Extradition is only valid if you commit a crime in one country and then flee to another to avoid prosecution.

Does extradition apply with the internet and SL? Don't know but I'm fairly certain it's not covered under the same laws.

I'm not questioning right or wrong but whether something is illegal or not. The other forms of exploitation/abuse you mentioned are not applicable to SL.

Here you go folks: http://www.asacp.org/press/press0203a.html


Amazing what a little research can do. In the United States any depiction of underage people having sex is Illegal. The same applies with cartoons and animation (lolicon), etc etc. The models must be depicted as 18yrs of age or older. If not.....IT IS ILLEGAL!.



Seriously now, how hard was that to get?

Beastiality is wrong. Should sex with furries be banned? Slavery is wrong. Should Gorian RP'ing be banned? Murder is wrong. Should combat sims be banned? Some people feel that homosexuality is wrong. Should that too be banned from SL?

No, I wouldn't condone this. Why not? Because the pictures are OF children. REAL children that have been abused and exploited. You're comparing apples and oranges.



No. You're thinking of "Jumbo Shrimp".

I'm going to assume that you are using the word "you" to mean "people in general" and not me personally.
I actually wasn't talking about wanting to have sex with children, I was talking about a couple playing games to spice up their sex lives. I know there are people that enjoy diapers, changing yadda yadda. Not my thing, but it's none of my business and it's none of yours. They KNOW that the person on the other end is an adult. The "younger" partner wears a young looking AV to expand this fantasy. These people are not paedophiles by any definition.Many people... and I know this may be hard to believe... have this amazing ability to see an avatar on Second Life and realize that it's not who the person actually is. They can look at an avatar and see it as a costume. Weird, huh?
Excuse me? When, exactly, did I ask for your help? Please, tell me when I begged and pleaded with you to help me with my "problem"?
And what was my "problem" again? The fact that I can see the difference between an avatar and a real person? Oh, yeah. I should be locked up in an institution because I can figure out that my friend that dresses up like a hyena on Second Life really isn't a hyena, just the same way that I can tell that my friend that pretends to be a teenager is really a mother of four. There are more than the one reason in your mind for this "disgusting" activity.
As I said, I disagree with and am a little repulsed by the video of the club designated for this. Having said that, painting everyone involved in ageplay, sexual or otherwise, is just wrong. THAT is what I take issue with.

You're going to compare furrie sex, BDSM, and simulated combat with simulated sex with a child? With a straight face?

Do any of these activities in 3d virtual world format break any laws?

LL doesn't need to ban anything but simply act when laws are being broken by its users.

I'd suggest you learn what extradiction is.