Well, I guess Ageplay is now Officially banned

Anyone who comes on SL to roleplay sex with a child does it for one reason, because it turns them on, or they wouldn't do it. If watching that turns you on, you are a paedophile.

The German film clearly shows that the events in question happened in a child sex brothel on SL, it also shows groups with large numbers being part of it. This going on isn't just a couple engaging in private play, it's organised paedophile activity.

LL have to take action or else all the countries where digital paedophile pictures are illegal could find SL blocked altogether. With two thirds of the grid non American, it would cause a huge problem. Wonder how many people would lose their land if just AC was to disappear tomorrow if Germany pulled he plug.

Why is it different? The people behind it are still adults and no real child is being harmed by the act.

Are you talking about ageplay or sexual ageplay? The two are very different things.

I'm talking about sexual ageplay.

This is a major concern and big sore spot of mine. My avatar is around 5'3" and, as far as SL conventions go, is rather flat-chested (I was trying to guess at a realistic C-cup). Basically she's just a trim version of the offline 'me' (with a prettier face). EXAMPLE

However, since the majority of avatars are well over 6' tall and have extremely exaggerated figures I am commonly mistaken for a child. I don't engage in virtual sexual activities but I can't help but find it somewhat offensive that people think I'm a child because I have a more realistic size and proportions. I find it difficult to believe that someone would mistake the RL me, a 5'2", c-cup, 38 year old woman, for a child. I happen to be very happy that I'm short and I've extended that to my avatar as well.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that there ARE short avatars out there who are not 'virtual children', not ageplayers, who are making use of sexballs. I think there needs to be clarification on what a 'virtual child' is in the eyes of the people enforcing this. Virtual age is extremely contextual. Is it going to come down to "If your height and breast size sliders are below X number then you are a child"?

More appropriately, I'm sure there are/will be RL police officers on the grid posing as underage avies. That should give the sexual ageplayers food for thought.......

There might even be RL police officers who were into sexual ageplay as recreation ...

We're going to have to agree to differ on this point. We're not so far apart on the general point but on the child avatar issue we're poles apart. To me once you take away the adult identity it's child abuse you're fanatasising about. Whether the characters behind it are adults or not, the imagery when using a child avatar is not about playing dress up to me, it's about abusing children.

Im 5'5" in both lives - My avatar is slim - I participate in adult sexual activity in second life.

I dont think my avatar in any way looks like a child.

However someone who saw me with a large male Avatar might think so - espcially if they had an agenda and were looking for that.

Some definition would be nice. Hopefully obviously Child-like is whats not allowed. Rather than "Wow she could pass for 16" In which case a lot of non Ageplayers will get in trouble.

An older teen doesnt necessarily look any different from a grown woman when its a cartoon person.

Some teens can fool people to think shes a grown woman IRL anyhow. Fake Id's anyone?

I can only assume it isn't in the least wrong, offensive or distasteful to you otherwise you wouldn't be arguing so vehemently in support of it. I am sure many pedophiles agree with you and are jumping with joy that you are so admirably defending their point of view. Good Job, keep up the good work. You sir are fighting a truly admirable cause. Be proud.

6) Ensure that all electrical items are in standby mode.

7) Empty all cartons of milk that are older than 72 hours.

Assume the crash position.

9) Kiss your ass goodbye.

10) Now you are ready to have some fantasy fun in a peaceful secure setting happy in the knowledge that a griefer will be panning the cam into your box and your photos will be on google images within 28 minutes.

Well as we saw with the Germans....this type of thing is illegal. Cops from those countries could easily be looking on this forum and flagging in supporter of this act and check them out when they are on the grid.

Yeah, I'm defending the cause of liberty (something most people these days couldn't care less about). A cause I'll champion until the day I die, regardless of my personal feelings about a given issue.

The two arguments here are

for "sexual age play"
1. "hey its really an adult isnt it ... so the fact they LOOK like a child doesnt matter"

against "sexual age play"
2. "Regardless of wether its got a adult player at its controlls ... the fact that you fantasise about having sex with a child (AV or otherwise) is pretty poor"

In this country this type of thing is not illegal. As far as the Germans - I'm not in Germany, so why should I care?

Liberty ....

Ok ... Im gonna go out now and break into somebodies house and steel there stuff ......

Becasue thats my Liberty and my Right for freedom

Bloody hell ...... we arnt talking sex with furries or the Gor lifestyle here ...

We are talking about GROWN people IRL .... getting sexual kicks out of the IMAGE of KIDS!!!!!!!!

Have you even been paying attention?



No, we're talking about grown adults playing in a game with cartoonish collections of pixles.

You're defending the cause of liberty?

You say this in such a matter-of-fact manner its scary.

There are some things not worth defending and some wars not worth fighting. One cannot blindly support a cause in the name of liberty.

Good judgment and common sense should always be exercised regardless of the cause. Unless of course you are unable to do so out of blind personal preference in which case you then cross the line into blind fanaticism. Be careful, that can be dangerous.

October ...

I sincerely respect your view and your right to air your views, I also acknowlege that according to the web that Child pornography is againt the law because it encourages trafficing in people in the USA.

We are always going to disagree as to what is deemed acceptable or tastefull at it becomes even more difficult on SL ... this is a flash pan of views.

I agree this sort of sexual devience is down to the indevidual and of course there choice.

BUT.....

I think that Linden Labs are going to vote with there users .... and if Germany who is SL's second largest user base after france says its illegal to age play or depict children on the main grid care of making SL acocuntable ... then SL will want to protect its investment.

Age players have a place ... and in the privacy of there own home etc ... I ca nt comment
but the fact that the media have disclosed a Kiddy brothel ... jokey or otherwise does give us food for thought as to what the grid is comming to where its completely ok to have sex with "child" avatars but gambling is wrong.

Again full respect to your views and your argument in point is returned that it is your RIGHT to make your choice either way.

There's a difference between a purveyor of child pornography and a supporter of what consenting adults do as fantasy between themselves. Some of the contributors here need to stop labeling anyone who uses the consenting adults argument as being pedophilac supporters. Being called a supporter of child porn when I'm not is as offensive as the child porn itself.

Also, threats like the above comment are bordering on harassment and pushing the limit of what's allowed in this forum. It smacks of paranoid witch-hunting tactics.

The people who were trading actual RL child porn images should not only have been banned but reported to the authorities as traffickers of child porn. THIS is the issue here, not fantasy sex play involving consenting adults wearing fantasy avatars.

It should be made clear they were being banned for trading in child porn. Instead, a general and fairly panicked blog post banning a fantasy sex activity, in the attempt to legally cover your asses and firing up the masses.

However, I guarantee you that if "the masses" who get riled up in support of the ageplay ban keep going, it won't stop there. Wait until FOX News gets videos of furry or Gorean sexplay. Or virtual drugs. Or combat zones. Or any of the other things that becomes the new media drama expose of the hour.

Age verification systems aren't going to resolve any of this mess.

I wasn't aware that you were the only one dictating what the issue is. Maybe we should all shut up and let you talk.

As I was saying: I'm defending the liberty of (and I emphasize this yet again) consenting adults to do as they wish so long as it does not harm or harrass others. Just because you may find it personally offensive doesn't mean it should be banned.

What we are discussing are two adults engaged in an imaginary situation. What is being discussed when ruling out ageplay in SL is two adults engaging in these activities, just with a better backdrop.

I play a child av on occaison, in a PG Sim..and do NOT engage in ageplay. I find it disgusting too. I'm a mom of four and the very idea gets my blood boiling. But if we start laying out rules based on how hard our emotional kneejerk kicks us, we're all fixing to be severely impaired. What I see in many responses is "*I* disapprove of this activity, so it must stop". Ok, so *this* is a particularly disgusting activity, but really, I can think of a few more pretty disgusting ones that *I* don't like. Maybe not quite as sick as this, but not far from it. But hey, who says ONE perspective should rule us all? In a perfect world, this discussion wouldn't exist..since it's not a perfect world...as long as no ACTUAL children are being harmed, I say none of my business. I wouldn't let them around the kids...but I wouldn't kick them out of the neighborhood.

As far as LL getting a rep of Pedovillage or some such. Well, so many artists of anime and Lolita types seem to come from the US here lately, I guess that means the US is welcoming peds by the dozens..and even worse, not only has the US not DONE anything about it, the Supreme Court even made it clear it was LEGAL. LL took the right course if they were in anything involved in RL child porn...but if it's JUST because they were RP'ing some sick thing...well, *shrugs* lots of that already in SL IMO. I'll just stay in my PG sim where it's nice and quiet and clean.

So, verify age upon entry as you've been, let adults do what they're gonna do with or without SL. The need to tell two adults how to act is almost as bad as pedophilia IMO. Both should be shot on sight.

But we are not talking about child pornography. We are talking about consenting adults engaging in fantasy over a computer game.

Let's keep in mind that Linden Labs IS a business. They have a right to protect their business and their ability to make a return on their investment and [the horror of it all !!] a profit. As a business, they have a certain amount of leeway and freedom to run it the way they see fit. This is not absolute, of course. They are, in the USA, subject to federal, state and local laws. Being international in terms of their service, they are also subject, in varying degrees, to laws of other countries. I am not sure to what extent they are subject to the laws of other countries - this isn't the field of law that I practice in. Suffice it to say, it behooves them to be aware of potential liablity situations.

I do my fair share of complaining, some would call it "whining." MY complaining is generally about the provider - customer relationship I have with LL. I am a paying customer and this gives me the right to squawk about things I don't like. Any complaints I post are legitimately for the purposes of getting my point of view across where there is at least a possibility of the provider, LL, saying, "Hey, she's right! Maybe we should do this.." If it gets to the point that I believe my monthly account fee and the $40 monthly tier I pay is not money well spent, I will quit and leave SL period.

Now, my point is LL does NOT have to provide a platform for age play, sexual or otherwise, it does not have to provide a platform for explicit sexual materials, it does not have to provide a platform for violence of any kind. Basically, its their business and their decision.

I think most of us agree that [a] child porn is illegal; it ought to be illegal and [c] it is morally reprehensible. There is a split of opinion about whether age play in a sexual context is any of the above. I am a lawyer and I don't know the answer to thel legal question. I suspect their legal dept is burning the midnight oil trying to figure this one out though, for at least the major jurisdictions they're concerned with.

Speaking for myself, there is a real dichotomy here. Sexual ageplay just plain creeps me out to the point I shudder just thinking about it. On the other hand, I believe generally that what goes on between consenting adults in private is none of my business. I am trying to reconcile these two competing ideas, without much success. I imagine that many of the people at LL are struggling with it as well.

Whatever decisions are made by LL on this issue is pretty much up to them. If sexual age play enthusiasts [wow is this Euphemism City or what?] take issue with their interest being banned, they have two choices, quit doing it in SL or leave. Same thing with just plain age play enthusiasts. I DO see the difference between the two by the way.

One thing LL cannot do is risk their entire company to cater to the needs and interests of a few. Let's say they decide, for whatever reason to bann the use of red headed female AVs who wear glasses and like to shop? You bet, I would SCREAM bloody murder, but ultimately I would have to decide to change or leave.

I'm not sure where the line is going to be drawn on this issue, but LL sure has to draw it somewhere. Whatever they do is going to annoy a certain amount of people. the ultimate fact is - its their call, subject to whatever legal ramifications apply.