Teen Grid sims visible?

Just to add fire to the conspiracy, This would also explain the very WTF comment from a linden in the blogs the other day about the new "verification" data they are thinking of implementing. One of the items was an "Age" which on an /all adult/ grid was like ?!?!?

Well, NOW IT MAKES SENSE!!!!

BTW this would be terrible. Have you heard about what goes on over there? I've not seen it first hand but some escapees have told stories... and as the stories go: It's a total disaster area with griefing and crap on a scale that no one on the main grid could possibly imagine. The level of "conscience" and "social adjustment" is just incredably low. Take the lowest 10% of behavior on the main grid and that's like 75% of the teen grid.

I imagine there ARE a lot of sane and rational teens that want out of that hell hole, but letting the entire mal-adjusted crowd over here... I sure would be sorry to own any PG land

I've recently sat down with my teenage daughter when she was logged in to Teen SL, and I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what really goes on there. What I saw was... not much. Teens have a right to complain that Teen SL is boring.

I think the biggest problem is the lack of any opportunity for newbies to earn money to get started. In adult SL, there are money trees and camping chairs as well as a really extensive selection of high quality free merchandise. There's a lot of effort put into helpng a newbie get started. If you create a product in adult SL, there are low cost... sometimes free places to sell that merchandise. There are vendors that take a percentage of your sale price rather than charging rent. You can sell products through SLX or SL Boutique and transfer the proceeds to your account in-world.

None of this exists in Teen SL. There are places where you can rent a stall for L$100/week, but how do you earn that first L$100? There are a few teens that seem to have access to cash, but there's nowhere near the level of activity in stores, clubs, etc. you see in adult SL. There is a good sized sandbox which is pretty active, and yes, I did witness some griefing... someone created some self-replicating flying fish that would follow you around, and could be annoying. I helped my daugther create a builder's skybox so she could work in peace.

I don't think Teen SL will survive with its current restrictions. Compared to when I first signed my daughter up several months ago, it seems more places have gone out of business, and there is less opportunity than ever. Yes, it's true teens have cash to spend, but neither they nor their parents have any way to get it into Teen SL.

When reading this thread I started to wonder just what there is in the teen grid.
Thanks Dilbert for the insight. No wonder the teens want to get out and see the main grid.

There seems to be a lot of ageism here on the lines of 'kidz meanz trouble' as well as retiscence among the 'mature' creators to clean up their act.

I've been working in the education sector for a long time and think that some of the most creative and exciting ideas come from these very people. I fully second someone's point that there are some 'adult' griefers more disruptive than most youngsters.

I can see why creators of mature content and lands are anxious of how they are going to keep out the underaged but as someone else has pointed out, there are ways and means of doing this even with one integrated grid if and when LL provide those mechanisms.

I wonder if some of you forget that SL is a changing, developing, phenomenon. I can see a single grid with a revised mechanism of keeping the underaged out of areas designated or declared 'mature' working. Many club owners and vendors I'm sure will have the choice of opening up to under 18s content permitting. Why not one grid? There's only one world?

No, we dont see that sim here on the TG

You do realize the concerns with mixing the grid only are partly due to mature/adult content?

The other part has to do with protecting teens from adults. As you can see with what happend recently with Myspace .. in addition to legitimate concerns over Teen's welfare - this is a extremly touchy issue with regards to the press.

The last thing SL needs right now is more sesationalist news stories.

I actually think the reasons the grids are seperate has nothing to do with teens being griefers.

Now I do think they will merge the PG areas some day .. It makes no sense for the entire 3d web to be 18+ ... and LL is still hoping to become a 3D internet ... whether realisitic or misguided.

But I am sure they are willing to let other places like My Space , blaze this legal trail and then they can figure out how to proceed.

If you are a member of teen second life - you are not supposed to be able to see these forums.

There are many more reasons to keep the grids separated than to join them. It is not simply restricting the access of minors to mature areas, but how about avoiding 'spillover' like

- mature content within camming distance of PG areas
- objects

...and perhaps many more.

For example, prim dicks may be carried around and used in here... anyone would be able to hand such a thing to a minor, as long as objects are not flagged as well as 'unsuitable for minors'.

On Teen Grid, once such a thing is seen in the wild it would definitely be removed from the inventory of the culprit and blacklisted.

I have no objection to the combining of grids.

Landowners that have mature content have to set their land with the mature flag.

Adults who are over 18 can verify themselves as being so to have access to mature content.

Those under 18 will not be able to verify themselves and therefore will not get access to mature areas.

Those under 18 who lie, steal or borrow someone else's ID to get hold of adult content, will do so anyway whether the grids are separate or one.

Sure, there is the risk of pervs preying on children, but I'm sure they already do that, but let's not forget that it is the parent's responsibility to police their children's internet time, not Linden Lab, or the players any further than activating the 'mature content' flag if appropriate.

Broccoli

Just as stated in the previous posting I have less concerns about underaged travelling towards M-rated sims because that could be sufficiently prohibited.

My biggest concerns would be M-rated content travelling to THEM. On a dedicated teen grid it is much easier to be controlled and get rid of, simply because such content has no right to exist there. Here on the adult grid it is much harder to do so.

I can just imagine adults making a cut with trafficking prim dicks, Xcite 'tools' and sexgen beds and stuff like that...

Next to that, what would prevent a minor building such things in here as well once they're on the adult grid? On the teen grid such things would get deleted without a further comment, here it would be much harder to discern wether the original creator is a minor or not.

No - merging the grids would do much more bad than good in my point of view.

Simple answer, check if the person is verified as an adult or not.

If they aren't verified as an adult, then they shouldn't have prim genitals, xcite stuff or whatever.

You want adult content? Get verified. It's in your own interests if that's the way you want to lead your Second Life.

Broccoli

There's nothing wrong with teenagers anyway, we were all teenagers once. It's almost as if now that it's illegal in most places to discriminate on the grounds of race or sexuality, some people have to start being ageist to replace it.

There is nothing magic that happens at 18 to make people suddenly considerate and moderate in their behaviour.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so maybe I'm not saying anything new here.

First off, I met "adults" who behave like teens or that lack a mature attitude anyways on a daily basis, so actually meeting a "mature" teen would be a pleasant experience

Don't take me wrong. I don't want to make "adult things" with a teen. I would deal with the avatar like I would deal with a RL teen, but then I have to know he/she is one.

This goes hand in hand with age verification. Let's say (just for the sake of it) that it will keep teens out of the "mature" regions. You're out on a PG area, where age verification is not mandatory. You meet someone new, how can you know he/she's not a teen in disguise (and viceversa)?

That may force more people into doing age verification, even if they stick to PG areas only.

Oh well...

/hands his passport over to a Linden and sighs

Between "shouldn't" and "can't" there is a large difference. The Lindens are far by not everywhere and - may they forgive me for saying this - have a history of acting when the refuse (feel free to use the four-letter-word for digestional leftovers) has already hit the fan.

A possibility would be to have EVERY questionable object tagged as 'mature' as well so they won't be passed on to minors. But that would require discipline from the content creators and on the other hand it could create a 'black market' for unmarked adult goods.

So diligence of the content creators, civic attention and responsiveness of the Lindens would be required to prevent a similar scandal from happening as with the recent ageplay business.

Quite a load.

Keep the grids separated and things would be much easier for all of us.

Maybe I was 15 once. But a teenager in that sense of the word? I guess not, others of my age were too immature in my eyes back then.

That argument 'we were all teenagers once' doesn't go very well. We handle knifes, scissors and other potentially dangerous tools every day, but would you hand them to a baby just because you were a baby yourself once as well? I don't think so.



No, there is nothing magic with reaching the age of 18 other than having survived that long. But it is the age where humans are regarded as considerate and moderate enough to handle things for themselves. Maybe some grow up enough to be that way at 14, others at 17... but the age is set so that only a minority wouldn't be grown up enough...

This is a spurious metaphor, because SecondLife does not pose a danger. If you're thinking of the possibility of a 14yr old being able to view adult sexual content, then my answer is that there is a huge difference between viewing sexual content on a computer monitor in the safety of your home, and being enticed into participating in sexual activity in real life. I don't think the virtuality which is the adult SL grid would cause a problem for a teenager's development.

But in any case what I was responding to was not the worries about the welfare of the teens, more to the people who were worried about the nuisance factor of having young people around and possibly behaving like, well, young people.

You can't have "PG/Mature/Adult" in a unified grid.

You can have "Disney/PornFilth". Because Mature means nothing when you're not prepared to do the one thing you can actually do on "Mature" land when the adult thing comes in- and that's say words ruder than "bum" or "wee". No sensible adult is going to *knowingly* engage in a conversation with a minor using anything but nueutral speech and topics. No lewd behaviour, no adult humour, no discussing of "mature" issues.

You can argue right now that there's a lot of teens on the grid, flying round mature or PG, and we all probably talk to them. The difference is, right now you can take the stance "You're supposed to be an adult if I can see and talk to you, so I'm not going to moderate my language in mature sims". With a unified grid, you're compelled to assume that every single unverified member is a teen. Given that no verification is needed for mature parcel access in the new proposals, that means, de-facto, that mature becomes PG.

Which might be a nice little maneuver in some ways, but it would make a mockery of the three tier system that's not even in place yet. On the other hand, if it compels more adults to verify just to find some peace and quiet from noisy kids away on adult regions, it reduces the stigma on people verifying for other reasons. Maybe.

I'm sure there are lots of great kids. I'm also sure I've talked to a whole bunch of great, talented, smart teens without knowing their age, but it omes down to a simple numbers game. The great majority of kids are immature. That's at least one definition of a minor, after all.

I also have vague memories of a transcript of a recent Robin's office hours or something where talk of merging grids was damped down.

Quite a few of us are actually perfectly capable of doing that anyway, without having to "restrict ourselves" in case the person is underage.

Remember that SL is not just about "adult content".

Broccoli

What makes the teen grid boring... an utter lack of ... SEX!!!

Why will the teen and adult grids be merged ... MONEY!!!

Will it happen if anyone likes it or not?? ... Voice Chat comes to SL!!!!

The poster might be one of the adults who has authorization to enter Teen Second Life, rather than a teenage member.

This is a horrible idea. Is SL an 18+ world or not. I don't want teens on the main grid - PG or otherwise. I can't see a teen sim on the map and long shall it remain.

If that's the only thing that keeps you here in SL, then you're missing out on so much. There's so much more to do with your time.

Broccoli

Show me the teen NOT interested in sex.
Actually, when I want virtual sex, I go to RLC.
Why when anyone mentions sex do you get all twisted in the panties, Broc?

I'm not getting anything twisted, it's just rather frustrating to see so many people trying to promote the view that SL is all about sex, when it's clearly wrong. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen here, but there are so many other things that people could be concentrating on and enjoying here.

I have never, ever engaged in 'pixel sex' with a stranger, and do not intend to. Those sort of things are best experienced in real life, with a real person, that you know, and actually feel something for.

Broccoli

I didn't read all 5 pages but here's my theory:

A while back, The Magicians (a team I was with at the time) built all the content for Global Kids Island in the MG that was later moved to the TG. Perhaps this is what is happening?

Or maybe TG stands for Toad Garden. Or Turkeys Gobble. Or maybe even Tank Girl! Just because you can't get in doesn't mean it's on the Teen Grid.

I don't know that I like the idea, but I can see the teen grid and main grid merging at some point, if only for the money and to keep the big corporate folks happy (being able to target all the avs with their marketing drek.)

I'm not at all keen on the verification nonsense, and I plan on keeping my island 'Mature' and not 'Adult', nor do I intend to do the 'verification' myself. As far as I'm concerned, I verified when I signed up, again when I became a premium customer, and once more when I bought a friggin island. If US$1675 (not to mention $295 a month since then) wasn't enough proof of who I am, then...

-Atashi