Can we not be included when linden labs talk about "the community" ?

Until people get away from the mindset of "how much money can I make here" and move towards "what can I do to enrich other people's experiences in SL", there won't be a community either.

All we have is groups of people that make up their own communities (furries, goths, vampires, Caledon, etc) but everyone keeps themselves to themselves.

Broccoli

True, yet isn't that what we do irl as well? And if SL is a reflection of RL in a lot of ways, can we change that?

Mandy C

It's kinda funny how some people want certain real life things included and excluded from SL, and others think exactly the reverse.

You only have to look at the proliferation of third party sites, all offering almost the exact same thing, with "communities" of about 20 regular posters, if that, rather than people thinking "I could join 'x' site and help them to grow.

If I knew the answer on how to make one true community, you can bet I'd be working towards it. Until then, I simply seek out people who feel like I do, and hope that between us we can manage something.

Broccoli

Agreed, they can set what rules they want, and I wish they would set more clear concise rules. But they repeatedly refuse to act on a number of questionable situations, until THEIR Asses are in Hard Alley. Then they make a sweepeing unilateral move, usually without much warning, and then post some bullshit about protecting the community. That's ridiculous. Same with New Features. You can add all you want, take away all you want. Some will be for advancing the platform, rom atechnological or business sense. some may be because Dr Phil wants a new bell or whistle added. No problem. but again, don't insult our intelligence by trumpeting some non existant popular demand for it.

Same here.

Mandy C

When you look at advertising in general in RL, statements such as '8 out of 10 cat owners said their moggie perfered this food'... read the small print, and they surveyed a couple of hundred people that showed any interest in the bloody survey in the high street as they shopped in the first place.. its called subjective advertising...

To use the terminology 'the community' as a representation of all the users of SL, is not more as far fetched as the stupid cat owners who mostly buy out of some warped sense of concience or by price alone.

Even if they had a poll on the forums.. how many actual users frequent the forums?

There will never be an easy answer to gaining the majority of the populous's opinion, unless they email every account a questionaire and hope your spam blocker doesn't bin it before you get to see it, or the vast majority bin it. Those that will make some vote, will be the ones who maybe care more about the 'community' more than some.. which brings me back to the cat owners in the shopping Mall.

Making money is the entire basis of community. If I offer a product or service for sale that fulfills someone else's need, then I am enriching the community.

It is basic human nature to want to spend the majority of your time with others who are like you.

It is funny to me, that the Lindens claim "the community" spoke on an issue, when for the most part "the community" has no place to speak. We only get as much general discussion here as the mods allow. Closing the general discussion forum was a mistake, one that could be fixed very easily.

Good point! Yet I can see Broccoli's standpoint, but I guess we're talking about a Utopia then. But seeing older residents helping noobs out just because they want to is fullfilling enough for me.

Mandy C

then it is a very poor community. I'm really not interested in such a community

Then the community you live in will be one of caves or mud huts and a life expectancy of 30.

nope, just a really good neighborhood, in sl as in rl

it's not money that makes the world go round

Someone has to pay for it. Why do you think the works of Shakespeare, Dickens, or Cooper were written? They were the popular entertainment of the day, written to make money and provide a living for the authors.

Without money, life really does become "Nasty, brutish, and short.......".

So LL defines the community as being that part of SL society that files ARs? Since I tend to avoid dolcett clubs, ageplay clubs, and so on, I rarely feel the need to file abuse reports.

The horrible, but very logical conclusion, is that LL sees the SL community as people who visit such places.

Actually, yeah, it pretty much is.

The only reason you can ignore that fact is because of that fact, ironically.

The primary existance of Second Life as it is now is to make money. For Uncle Phil and The Lindens, for all the business owners from Ansche to Zaphod , for the Corporations who are PAYING to be here. Any other results, artisitic accomplishment, social enlightenment, cultural advancement are all bonusues, in my opinion. When a new user comes to the site for the first time, without any knowledge of SL (as I did), what do they see? "Buy Vitual Land". "Buy and Sell Lindens". "Buy First Bling!"

SL may have started as a Social Engineering Experiment, but it has settled into just another for profit entertainent venture, becoming more commercializd and mainstream each day. The "Community" could change that to an extent, but for the most part The providers will decide where it goes.

Human nature Brenda, the desire to improve and profit can't be unlinked from our being.

For me, that's nothign more'n a BART ride -- but I highly doubt my opinion would ever be asked, ya know?

Mari

To answer Kyrah's original post... nope, we can't be, cause here we still are, part of LL's 'community', until the day we cancel our accounts, regardless of if they consider us or run over us.

The real question here is: How many people feel more and more disenfranchised by LL's ever-changing view of 'community'? And how long before all the truly creative people, like Kyrah, decide that being part of LL's 'community' has nothing left to do with "Thier World, Thier Imagination" and simply leave the place to the profit driven corporate scums?

I whole heartily agree. I'd love to see my name no longer associated with being the last farking post on that forum! And as far as the community goes? Well, it sounds as silly as crying, "Save the children," when it comes to making rules for the main grid. Just say, "We are doing this because we feel there is a need to," and don't hid behind that 'community.' Maybe if we had the general discussions form, I'd feel differently, because at least we'd be able to discuss and fuss there.

Broccoli, I have one question: Whose morality do you want to enforce? Remember, please, that morality is a subjective thing, based on one's religious and personal beliefs.

That's the kicker. They babble on about doing thing for and by the wished of the
Community", but I think they are only listening to a certain segment "The Community". Which they are free to do, of course.

Sorry for quoting the whole thing, I'm lazy this morning.

Actually though, in my case, my little shop enables me to break even at the end of the month, *if I'm lucky*. I'm quite the opposite really, as that is the bonus for me, not the other way around, as I'm sure is true for the bigger businesses. If I don't earn a profit in any given month, and end up out of pocket, eh, no big.

Of course LL can make any laws they like and we can agree or not.

However, to suggest its because of the community is just rubbish. They have never asked our opinion on anything (presumably they talk with a few select residents but they don't represent the community). If they are going to incorporate new rules, do it, but don't say its because of the residents' wishes.

ill bring the smores.....

True, I over generalized definitely. Many of you do run your businesses out of enjoyment of the contetnt creation and as way to share it with everyone. And breaking even is a fine accomplishment. Sometimes I'd like to make my SL habit self sufficient.