Zyngo, is it gambling or not?

I see it as gambling, you put L$ in, get random numbers; a game of chance with a bet and win or lose it. How come it is permitted?

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I heard it was because you can see the top score you have to beat that it's allowed.

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Because the Lindens say so.

Gambling - the act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize)

So Linden Labs supersedes the law now?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/09/uigea_regs/

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/

Under US law are you required to inform the police if you become aware of illegality? Perhaps you'd better call the cops, just in case.

Good thing I am not an American. I was just prodding this, wondering how and why they were an exception.

According to the official rules and Linden "rulings", it's not gambling.

But we all know the truth...it's gambling in spirit, if not by the letter of the rules, and serves to separate people from their money and make the owners of the machines rich.

It's like many rules and laws out there. They are so tied up in "legalese" and interpretation by the bureaucracy that they end up being warped into allowing those with the means ($$$$$ and influence, which means $$$$$) to have the laws and rules rewritten to their benefit. That is to say, all other forms of gambling have been outlawed and Zyngo has remained. We know it's gambling, it's gambling, but by the technical rules and rulings by LL it's not. 1 + 1 = 3...get used to it, LOL

I guess because there is supposedly some "skill" in looking for and matching the numbers.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes you're even prohibited from informing the police (e.g., if privileged information makes you aware of a crime that's already been committed).

In this situation, although I personally believe Zyngo is gambling as defined in LL's description of prohibited gambling, the law is sufficiently complex that I couldn't say that I know a crime is being committed.

Perhaps you should AR every Zingo machine you see as a gambling device... If LL ignores and allows it to continue, when the law comes down on them there will be proof that they were notified of the illegal gambling devices.

Unless there is a way to guarantee that a user can develop enough skill to achieve 100% payout; it's gambling. (^_^)y

Poker having no skill to it? Place a bet, have random chance and it is gambling.

I didn't say it is my logic just the justification I have heard. I definately think poker has more skill then zingo. Heck they even show poker on fox sports. So, it not only takes skill, now it is a sport.

It's not logic or a justification. There is nothing in Linden Lab's policy that exempts games of skill. The existence of chance affecting an outcome and wagering are all that are necessary to make a Zyngo slot machine illegal under the written policy published by Linden Lab. All this talk of skill granting an exemption is just a bunch nonsense that ignorant Linden Lab employees spew out. The truth is that Linden Lab could ban all the slot machines in SL right now if they wanted to and correctly point to the anti-wagering policy as the reason and there is not a single legitimate complaint that anyone owning, operating or selling the things could make if it happened.

So, do we just casually report the machines when we come across them or ignore it all together and let the bias run its course?

Would the cops close LL for an audit if they found out?

"Tilting at windmills" comes to mind...

Report them all... let Linden sort them out.

You know I was around when the gambling ban went into place and I flat out NEVER understood how zingo was deemed ok.

The closest thing I could think of was if the numbers are not truly random. Heck if I know. I just know back then you never played a slot machine unless you seriously trusted the creator to not rig it and now you basically are stuck with zyngo and I doubt very much the creator will ever allow the code to be inspected It's all a losing proposition.

These forums are officially scary. This thread got blown five pages deep before I remembered it.

If I go tilting at wind mills, I will be sure to do it in a tank or bulldozer.

I'm the maker of the old game "Skunk Money". There was some "skill" involved, basically if you played the machine smartly, you could get ahead. Random tiles were on the screen, and you picked tiles to show them. Some were positive L$ values, some were negative L$ values, and there was one skunk tile. You could stop and cash out your earnings at anytime during play, but if you found the Skunk you lost. Sometimes, the skunk is replaced with the jackpot.

Now would this have enough skill that would make it Legal by Linden Lab's definition? Who would be able to make a ruling on this?

By Linden Lab's definition? No, because there is no skill exception in the defined policy. You would have to submit it to governance who would make an unofficial decision as to whether they would take any action against the operation of your gambling game. That is the only assurance you can get, as Linden Lab will not put in writing that any of these games are legal since they clearly conflict with the anti-wagering policy which is what it intends to use as its defense against any prosecution under the Wire Act or UIGEA. It's called plausible deniability.

That's fine with me. As I only sell the game (used to), and don't actually run any inworld.

I would call it gambling but apparently to LL it isn't.

Perhaps the real question is:

"Zyngo, do I enjoy playing rigged machines to lose money and keep my gambling addiction satisfied?"

There's a Zyngo parlour rammed full of slot machines on the parcel next to mine. 21 seconds script time even when I'm the only avatar in the sim. Bleh.