Voice Chat Can Really Kill the Mood on WoW

Hehe that is where i learned that I wont be using voice it was the orc with the botson accent and the dark elves and the texan light elves..

Your attempt at satire is condescending at best.

LOL Squeeze. That's the first post of yours that has made me laugh and not piss me off even the slightest. You're slipping, dear.

Mission accomplished!

But seriously, folks. Get a clue. It's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of the virtual world. Don't fear the reaper!

If you people weren't so reactionary then maybe you'd be able to enjoy life a little better!

Yeah, I've been channelling a lot of my inflamatory energy through v-chat these days...and I'm turning 30 this month. I'm too busy crying to make people angry.

Luckily Colette just gets mad when she sees my name these days! I can still get some mileage off that!

Don't push it.

On the flip side of the coin -

Why does it bother so many pro-voicers that some people dont like the idea of voice in SL?

I never understood that to the extent I have seen. Basically those opposed to SL voice have been accused of hiding things, being closed minded and of course "reactionary"

Theres also this false myth that there was never a voice experience prior to this new one coming out.

Why should the pro-voicers care what the anti-voicers complain about? - very shortly they litterally wont have to "hear" it.

Actually I usually judge each of your stances in each thread on their relative merit, or lack thereof.

The fact that you are consistant in being thoughtless towards those who dont agree with you probably makes it feel the way that you have described.

In addition to other comments of those who are against the use of voice chat in SL, my concern is from the line in the article:

"Indeed, some guilds won't even let you participate anymore unless you use voice chat, because text-only chat seems shifty."

Is there going to be discrimination if you don't use voice chat? I like the separation between RL and SL. It allows me to explore and experiment in an almost purely virtual world. I say "almost" because I know that there are real people behind those avatars. Voice chat seem to be too much RL encroachment on my SL experience.

Of course there will be.

There already is, Im surprized you havent experienced it yet. Not everyone will discriminate. I dont think most will. But yes, many will.




This sentiment is shared by many. Its also seen by some as an "excuse"

true on both counts. And people such as those will not be worth my trouble. Don't bother me and I won't bother you.

voice? voice?
LOL may I say...

If it works like everything else in SL, it will not be a problem for those (like me and so much others) who don't want it... just because it WON'T work

Whatever... voice is nothing: imagine... imagine you're able to use your webcam to put your face (well, for sur, some will not only use their faces...) in real time on your AV....


_____________________________________________________
don't want pretty skies
don't want voice chat
don't care about sculpties contests

-> want decent support
-> want stable platform

I have a dream.
I have a dream that one day the SL nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: all residents deserve a stable and optimized SL"

Maybe it's because of the un-founded whining about a new OPTIONAL feature that keeps popping up on any thread that has to do with v-chat.

Maybe it's all the threads about how bad v-chat is/will be and all the reactionary "sky is falling" arguements/rants they include.

So if you have previous voice experience are you more qualified than those that haven't to know if v-chat is going to ruin RP/help griefers/expose men with female avs/make deaf people sad?

Maybe it's the condescending tone so many of the "talkers will ignore typers and make them feel like 2nd class citizens" prejudicial arguements take that annoy people that are actually looking forward to v-chat. Optimism sure seems to be an enemy in the SL forums!

If you don't like v-chat and don't plan on using it, that's fine. You can state that once somewhere and leave it at that unless someone posts some new information/opinion that you would have a new response to.

"...Basically those opposed to SL voice have been accused of hiding things, being closed minded and of course 'reactionary'..."

Maybe it's in response to the closed-minded and reactionary rants that anti-voicers post over and over.

The only REMOTELY valid arguement I've seen against v-chat is regarding RP and alienation of deaf/mute and otherwise speech impaired people that are only able to use typing to communicate.

However, my experience with v-chat in SL has shown that a lot of v-chatters make every effort to include typers in the conversation. I know this won't be everyone. That's human nature.

So as long as this stupid subject keeps popping up and people keep making the same tired arguements that are refuted with the most basic logic you are most likely going to see accusations of closed-minded reactionism and implications of glossophobia mixed with technophobia.

Actually it works pretty well so far...probably because it's 3rd party!

"The only REMOTELY valid arguement I've seen against v-chat is regarding RP and alienation of deaf/mute and otherwise speech impaired people that are only able to use typing to communicate."

you forgot foreign people who can write and read, but are not that good with voice...

_____________________________________________________
don't want pretty skies
don't want voice chat
don't care about sculpties contests

-> want decent support
-> want stable platform

I have a dream.
I have a dream that one day the SL nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: all residents deserve a stable and optimized SL"

SqueezeOne Pow: I believe you (I honestly didn't try).

BUT: will it last? and what will be borked in the viewer when voice leaves first view?

(third party: we need à 100% thir dparty SL )


_____________________________________________________
don't want pretty skies
don't want voice chat
don't care about sculpties contests

-> want decent support
-> want stable platform

I have a dream.
I have a dream that one day the SL nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: all residents deserve a stable and optimized SL"

Very true, probably 60% of my friends list are people who speak English as a second language, Germans, French, Russians, even a couple from Asia and the Middle East.

But of course I speak Southern as my native tongue, so my girl in London is always trying to teach me English.

No, there is another valid reason for not using voice, or ANY option for that matter. "I choose not to" No other justification is needed. The same is true for those that "Want To". People on both sides of this argument are claiming self righteous high ground that just doesn't exist.
But you are right, this argument is getting tiresome. Let it be brought online and be over with for Christ's Sake and let it go where it goes.

I never took other peoples Discourtesy as licence for myself to do the same. The sad thing is, Like so many other rude people, i don't think it ever occurred to her she was being rude.

I'm hoping if enough people discuss experiences with Chat like my own, then perhaps when it does become widely available it's users will be a Little more thoughtful about how they use it. For some people it may Enhance thier second Lives, so I'm Not against it per se, I just think like any Tool it should be used Wisely and with regard for others.

Angel.

You again just proved your grace and manners.

I'm all for not using it simply because you don't want to. I've encountered people of this persuasion when running around with v-chat on and opted to type with them if they didn't have v-chat enabled to hear my soft, velvet voice that sounds like a panther purring.

It's up on firstlook (windlight was taken off for a while) and I've been using it probably only about 1/3 of my time in SL. Some places don't have it yet and some people don't use it. Fine with me!

Did people raise this much of a stink over flexi stuff? I wasn't on the forums when that debuted.

Its not really a feature - Text chat isnt "only" a feature. Basically its a method of communicating in second life. Before there was mainly one, Text. Now there will be two, Text and voice.

The whole downplaying it to the same level as features like rippled water is lame. Its merely an attempt to say someone's concerns is no good becuase global voice isnt that big a change. Which is insulting people's intelligence.



Attacking them at every turn for being reactionary actually just leads to people being more reactionary. Since it proves that the fear of discrimination is justified (becuase it discriminates against the ranters)



If I thought the Pro-voice people would just ignore the typers my opinion on the situation would be a lot different.

In many cases they wont be ignoring them, they will be actively trying to get them to Talk on voice, and they will be negative to those who wont.

This already occurs. It will occur more.



So nice of you to decide what people can express their opinions on.



If deaf mute people will feel alienated, why wouldnt others who wont use voice? Are negative effects of alienation predicated solely on the fact that Deaf people dont have a choice in the matter?

Admitting that deaf people will be alienated becuase they have no choice is admitting that anyone who wont use voice will be alienated. It really says that those who have a choice will be able to use voice so that they wont remain alienated.



I have yet to see you really refute anything on this subject with logic, basic or otherwise.

Wow. Okay, I'll touch on this in a way I havn't really seen touched in the thread.

WoW is more of my second life- Second life being my third. I "raid" 15 hours a week, and generally play 30ish. I'm in a raiding guild that's top on my server, and far beyond the average.

When people talk about raiding guilds that don't let you in without voice- it has nothing to do with text chat being "shifty". It has to do with efficiency. Raiding in WoW involves 25 people reacting to a situation with typically less than 5 seconds response time. 10 seconds is a matter of the raid failing at this primary task (killing the monster) or succeeding. Taking even 5 seconds to type out directions or needs is the difference between a guild that will be stuck in the beginner raid zones- and a guild that can advance beyond.

Ventrillo is required for raiding in my guild. It's not optional. From 6-9pm pacific, all 25+ members of the raid have to have their headphones/speakers on and be prepared to immediately react or they are removed from the raid. If you aren't willing to log on Vent- you'll never even make it through the application process. Our raid leader (a very nice fellow- 27 years old with a NPR-style mellow voice. Don't believe all the stories you hear of screaming children.) spends 5 min before each boss detailing out the fights. He covers each ability, each aspect of the fight from each point of view and has a short period for questions afterward. Covering the fights in the depth that he does would require several lengthy paragraphs of text- and because of how long it takes to type out 3 pages of reading material it would usually have to be prepared in advance- eliminating the option for players to break in and ask for a more detailed coverage of some point.

Voice in a gaming environment allows for significantly faster reaction times. Every 1.5-3 seconds I have to hit a button to attack the boss. If I'm typing instead, I'm not doing my job... and that key press every 1.5-3 seconds cannot be queue'd in advance- it must happen at the time. So every second I spend typing, I'm failing at my job. In the raiding game- that second I spend typing could be the difference between going home empty handed, or killing the boss.

That said, voice isn't required for WoW if you're not playing at that level. If you're not coordinating Kael'thelas phases or pushing to beat a 10min enrage timer that you've consistently come within 5-10 seconds of failing several times before. If you're all gathered around killing bosses in Karazhan and 5mans, you can easily get away without that kind of reaction time.

Same deal with Second life. Nothing in Second Life measures fractions of seconds of reaction time in a coordinated group effort. There's nothing to "beat". SL is, generally speaking, a social and role playing game. It's an *entirely* different beast.

I can't think of a single role playing (as it's primary focus) guild in World of Warcraft that required voice. It would be *stupid*. It will be stupid if it's required for role playing in SL too. Role playing is just that- role playing. Voice is optional! That said, voice would be very helpful in meetings with a lot of discussion and information. Same reason that voice is a better medium for my raid leader. People read and type significantly more slowly than they speak and listen- you're able to provide more information faster with a solid retention rate through voice mediums. It would be helpful when trying to coordinate detailed building, and it would be helpful to the handful of folks out there who think of SL as a platform for real life social interaction.

There are a large number of reasons to make voice available to SL. There are few to make anyone discriminate heavily against non-users. Unless you're using SL for real life communication (meetings, presentations, etc)- I wouldn't expect to see discrimination.

In a pick-up group in World of Warcraft I'm often invited to other people's ventrillo servers. Declining the option has *never* gotten me removed from the group or discriminated against. It's put me at a disadvantage however, because I can't communicate as quickly as my party members can.

As for squeeky kid voices and immersion. Let me be honest. World of Warcraft isn't a role playing game to the people who require voice. I don't relate people to their avatars. Occasionally I'll react to an avatar (/flirt, /thank, /beg, /laugh, etc) but first in my mind is always that I'm communicating with someone *behind* the computer screen. I thank Raziela politely for *his* summon and don't think twice about the fact that he plays a human female and is actually a rather deep voiced Brazilian guy. Beaver isn't a dwarf female priest- he's a nice guy with a midwestern accent who travels a lot for his work. I know his wife- she also plays: Palooka, a gnome warlock. She's got a sweet voice and was recently in the hospital- which made us all incredibly sad. Not because the gnome warlock was gone (although we missed her contribution to the raid as well) but because we all relate to the woman BEHIND the avatar and the thought of her in pain and sick is just as terrible as hearing that a friend you see in real life 5 nights a week for 3-4 hours a night is in the hospital.

For people who relate directly to the avatar- you won't see them using voice. That's okay. They'll probably be happier with OTHER people who relate directly to the avatars... and who ALSO don't use voice. Voice will be primarily for the people who see the game as a platform and prefer to think of the people *behind* the avatars.

That's okay. SL is different things to many different people.

I think most of them would jump at the chance to practice speaking what they can already read and write. I know this is true of the ones I've met and is true of me for portuguese, spanish and japanese!

i'll have to hear this one day.