would you be willing to join the land revolution?

@sakura: It seems you are determined to go through with this, and all power to you for that. I'll say it again with no cynicism: good luck. This is an incredibly generous gesture and I hope it works out. I can't help thinking that it is poorly thought out and will cost you a huge amount of money for a small amount of appreciation.


If that is an answer to my hypothetical scenario of 4 people grabbing all the land, I add a follow-up. What if the fifth person wants the *entire* second sim? Or even the next 8 people? Will you buy a third and fourth sim? Honestly, I applaud your efforts to help, but I fear you will end up exploited.

well the thing about that treasure, you basically said i didnt improve the plan but the thing is if i wasnt trying to improve it i wouldnt be looking for a second sim or even bringing up the idea then you said the math didnt add up it didnt at first but im paying the majority and that what you over looked you also complained that i was being argumentative well thats part of my personality im naturally argumentative ragardless as to how you feel it sounds and youre assuming i got angry but the thing is i had a calm tone the whole time you dont know how i felt you cant see my face in rl all youre doing is basiing anopinion off an assumption i didnt tell you how i felt at all i expressed frustration but to me frustration and anger are two different things

and my answer to kelly may is this is a group shared land no one is getting an entiire sim to themselves and i made that clear before people even joined

Since bringing up more than one issue at a time is not working, let's see about one problem at a time.

What are the specific rules about how much land a single member can use?

You see there; you *didn't*make that clear at all, what Kelli mentioned. In fact, you said that people could have as much space as their house takes. What if it's a huge castle, and the person wants the whole sim, or even half a sim. We can't help what 'your nature' is, here. When you are trying to get people to buy into your business plan, when you want to sell your idea, you present it in a way that's believable and not arguing everyone down, when they question it. If you want their opinion then listen to their suggestions, you are just arguing. Anyway, I"m out, had enough of this. Your plan is not clear, and as I said before, if you already have your supporters and sponsors, then you certainly don't need me. Good luck. (Even if you 'weren't' angry, you 'sound' angry, sarcastic and nasty, and you won't win over any new sponsors that way). So it's about how you come off, to others, even when they can't see you in rl.

Not that clear, frankly:

ps. So far I seem to be the closest you have to a supporter in this thread, try not to piss me off by getting my name wrong.

well kelli it wasnt even on purpose andi think youre making too huge a deal out of it and just because my plan wasnt clear to you out of the 19 times i explained it maybe you shouldve IM'd me directly for clarification regardless as to how it came off the reality is it wasnt as "vicious" as you thought

Sakura:

Have you owned land in SL yet?

Before you jump into this, make sure to own your own personal 512 on mainland for at least 2 months. Just to get a taste of the complexities of land owning in SL and how it will change your perspective.

It will also key you in to things you likely would not have thought of before, but should be aware of and thinking around before venturing into a larger land group scheme.

If you have owned a piece of mainland that long already, then this advice is not needed. But do make sure your plan is spelled out in a very clear line itemed contract-like presentation, so that everyone joining you on this will be on the same 'mental page' about what is going on.

Personally I think you would be better off making good solid long term friendships with 21 other people first, and then all getting together. Online strangers can sometimes end up being very hostile towards each other over the simplest of miss-communications.

I can haz land plz?

I wonder how a 19 yr old would have the money to risk on such an endeavor. Having a teen myself I know her income is limited but i am aware some do have money out there.

You have said You are covering the difference btw what you get and what is needed remember this is NOT monopoly money we are talking about it is real money.

Right.. so, you were expecting people to IM you with interest, after posting here in a forum that allows replies. So, when people exercised that ability, questioning your plan, giving what seems to me very good advice, you become defensive.

Given that the same questions were showing up time and time again, maybe it would have been better to just go ahead and POST your clarifications here. Saves on time and your energy, because then you're not answering the same question over and over in IM.

I reread the original wall of words and realized that the above quote is the true purpose of posting. If that is the case, you'd have done better to post in the classifieds or post a snippet in your signature. Also, by posting them in the proper place, you'd never heard the criticism that you apparently feel you don't need.

Well, good luck and sorry I'm not interested.

... and badly, and unsuccessfully.

The number of "groups" who've purchased land together in free-form fashion and succeeded by all accounts are very minute.

If the OP doesn't mind "holding the bag", then why not? But investors want something -- especially a presentation and business plan, which this is not.

I won't repeat what has already been well said in this thread, but if the OP already has some money for land and tier, why not just buy what YOU can afford and play with that land, allowing friends to use the land as well. THEN, if, on that smaller scale, you think you can transition to a larger venture, do so.

Good luck

well the thing is i feel like people are just making assumptions

fine i will post my plan again in a more clear fashion

1) get more people to join the group to contribute to buying the sim
2)buy the sim
3) everyone gets 1500 prims maximum this is assuming that theyll even use the 1500 because i have alot of people that have said theyre only going to use 500 people pay 100ls a week minimum ill pay the difference along with our sponsors if people want to have skyboxes thats fine too the persons space is as big as their house however you cant take up 1/4 a sim 1/2 a sim or a whole sim
4) buy a second sim if necessary for the remainder of the people

fyi:the land will be rented

therefor doesnt necessarily require rl money it all dpends on the kind of land and the owner if ll owns it then yeah it costs rl money but if you rent it from an estate it doesnt

our group has sponsors that have agreed to pay the majority of the tier as well as me

Bingo. No thanks

Ok, Sakura, you have accused people of making assumptions.

Let's leave all assumptions aside, on both sides of the equation. Just the facts.

Can you show us a copy of the contract involved in all of this, since you are proposing something that is going to involve a real money expense from the people involved?

A venture such as this is going to need a contract, to ensure that your involvement is not abused, and neither is theirs.

I strongly recommend you do get a real life contract drawn up, to be signed by all involved parties, and have a lawyer also examine it to ensure you haven't missed anything.

So your renting from another party, what if they decide to up and go not like it has not happened before in SL. Will you compensate the members of you group for money lost?

To the best of my knowledge unless someone is making a good amount of L$ is SL to cover the costs t does cost RL money

I wonder who these sponsors are would be nice if they would show you public support

If you are looking at 23 people to do this, you should divide the prims by that number for allocation which would be 652. Your allocation would put in a position of if a few use max, there would be none left for the others or rez objects.

Your price of 'buying' a sim equates to about a weeks rent, within a few days the next 23000L would be due but you are only asking each person for 100L at that point so instantly you need other funds which seem rather suspect considering you say you need the people signed up to buy.

Renting from an estate needs real money, around $350 a month. Even if using Linden dollars, they are still that value. If you use two sims you double that. It's very immature to say if renting doesn't require real money.

Sakura, firstly you did not answer mt previous post which was where can one find and join the group and most important what is it called?
Now, having read your business plan, I am looking at this as a potential sponsor/investor and would like to add some comments and ask some questions.
If you would be so kind as to clarify them it would be appreciatted.

As previously requested, who is this group, what is the group charter?

Is this sim going to be mainland or an Island?
Will these people get Accountancy roles so in the event the land is sold on they will receive a pecentage of the land sale through the group?

So far how many people have said they will ony use 500 prims?
Taking these people into account and then the people that will use 1500 prims at what stage do you see the first sim filling up and a second sim needs to be purchased?
Can you tell me how you are going to manage, track the prim counts of each individual?
You have previously mentioned that 23 people is what will be needed to make this business plan and group functional.
To briefly look at the figures so far assuming the worse scenario the land the group purchases is a private island. The one thing you have not mentioned but did so in a previous post that each memeber will be required to pay a joining fee of L$1,000 so taking that into account in the following;

Group joining fee; 23 members L
Group Payments: Weekly L$2,300
Land Purchase Price; L$23,000


4) buy a second sim if necessary for the remainder of the people

fyi:the land will be rented

therefor doesnt necessarily require rl money it all dpends on the kind of land and the owner if ll owns it then yeah it costs rl money but if you rent it from an estate it doesnt

our group has sponsors that have agreed to pay the majority of the tier as well as me[/QUOTE]

As others have said, the fact it's rented land is neither here nor there; either way, Linden Lab requires payment in the form of USD. How the person responsible for the tier raises is is neither here nor there; Linden Lab don't mind if it comes straight from his bank account or if he's collected the L$ equivalent of the tier in-world and converted it.

To repeat my earlier question, though; you said -- what sort of help, specifically, do you say you need to "kickstart" this project that your existing sponsors are unwilling or unable to provide?

My pitiful attempt at a derial.

Don't ask questions. Just join!


(I admit I have not read this thread but when I see revolution as a topic... well... Che!)

Sakura, firstly you did not answer my previous post which was where can one find and join the group and most important what is it called?
Now, having read your business plan, I am looking at this as a potential sponsor/investor and would like to add some comments and ask some questions.
If you would be so kind as to clarify them it would be appreciatted.

As previously requested, who is this group, what is the group charter?

Is this sim going to be mainland or an Island?
Will these people get Accountancy roles so in the event the land is sold on they will receive a pecentage of the land sale through the group?

So far how many people have said they will ony use 500 prims?
Taking these people into account and then the people that will use 1500 prims at what stage do you see the first sim filling up and a second sim needs to be purchased?
Can you tell me how you are going to manage, track the prim counts of each individual?
You have previously mentioned that 23 people is what will be needed to make this business plan and group functional.
To briefly look at the figures so far, assuming the worse scenario, the land the group purchases is a private island.
The one thing you have not mentioned but did so in a previous post that each memeber will be required to pay a joining fee of L$1,000 so taking that into account in the following;

Month 1 L$ TOTAL
L$
Group joining fee; 23 members______1,000________________23,000
Land Purchase Price;_____________-23,000__________________0.00

Purchase price is normally first weeks rent/tier.


Group Payments: Week2 __________2,300___________________2,300
Tier: Week2____________________-23,000_________________-20,700
Group Payments: Week3___________2,300_________________-18,400
Tier: Week3____________________-23,000_________________-41,400
Group Payments: Week4___________2,300_________________-39,100
Tier: Week4____________________-23,000_________________-62,100

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Month End Balance:_____________________________________-62,100

Your Contribution and sponsors:____________________________62,100

At todays rates to purchase from the Lindex 62,100 lindens; 238,85 US Dollars

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Month 2 L$ TOTAL
L$
Group Payments: Week1 __________2,300___________________2,300
Tier: Week1____________________-23,000_________________-20,700
Group Payments: Week2___________2,300_________________-18,400
Tier: Week2____________________-23,000_________________-41,400
Group Payments: Week3___________2,300_________________-39,100
Tier: Week3____________________-23,000_________________-62,100
Group Payments: Week4___________2,300_________________-59,800
Tier: Week4____________________-23,000_________________-82,800

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Month End Balance:_____________________________________-82,800

Your Contribution and sponsors:____________________________82,800

At todays rates to purchase from the Lindex 82,800 lindens; 318,47 US Dollars
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see you and/or your sponsors will need to find in Month 1 U$238,85 and in month 2 U$318,47.

Can you gaurantee that you or your sponsors are going to find this money to cover the weekly tiers. If one of your sponsors pulls out at the last minute you will still risk losing your land. How will you cover that?
This is a lot of money where there will be no return on the investment. Therefore this is more of a Charity and would in Real life be tax deductible.
Are you able to offer any advice or help on this matter?

Would you like me to calculate this for you as above for your first sim, or can we just say that you may as well double the amount from above. This will more or less be your monthly commitments of approx U$600.00. Real life money!
Please, you should change this to reflect in your first 2 parts of the plan.
1) Get more people to join the group to contribute to the purchase price which is the first weeks rent/tier.
2) Once group numbers are met purchase the land which will cover the first weeks rent.

I am sorry to say but you are being very badly misinformed.
As I highlighted above you will need to cover every week the weekly rent. You only receive in total L$2,300 from your group members. There is a shortfall every week of
L$20,300 or in real life terms U$78.08.
If you do not pay this amount you will be evicted from the land within a minimum of 48 hours, this I can more or less guarantee, unless every week you and your sponsors are going to pay the L$20,300 or U$78.08.

Can you confirm who these sponsors are so that if I wanted to sponsor you I would know exactly what my liabilities would be.
In the event of a sponsor leaving how will you gaurantee that the sponsors donations will be covered for that period?

I look forward to your response.

I think this is very good advice:As we now learn, the land is to be rented, not really purchased, so there's very little economy of scale here. That is, there's no reason to start with even one full sim: the numbers aren't going to work any better than with a few 512s.

I'm guessing there's something perceived as special about "buying" a full sim for L$23K. As already mentioned, there's nothing all that special about that price, even if it were actually purchasing the sim outright on the "used sim" transfer market. It's certainly nothing special as an up-front payment for renting a sim from an Estate. It's not that it's a bad price, it's that it's just nothing special; the full-sim scale of this just isn't doing anything to make the numbers work.

I'd also agree that this venture is *not* the place to learn how to manage land in SL. Unless one knows what one is doing, it would be very possible--even likely--to cause a lot more misery than joy for the intended beneficiaries.

Moving away from the finances, even if you can afford to pay for land for all these people, I see a lot more problems.

This is supposedly group owned land where people may put any house they like, where they like? I can only see a total mess with this. Where homes are not planned there is going to be a lot more room used and arguements between the members. All the different styles and qualities will look like a sandbox in the end with no planning at all.

Your prims, max 1500 each is crazy with 23 people. Would only take 10 to use up the sims resources and more arguements between the residents. You say some have said they will only use 500, well 500 is probably the limit I would put. 500 x 23 = 11,500, that would leave 3,500 for scenery and rezzing objects.

Personally, if I was in a position to be able to afford to pay for a full sim to help others, I would do it by planning in advance. I would landscape and leave equal sized spaces available with limit on the size of house and maybe 350 prims each or would just build a community where the houses are already there for newbies to live with communal areas.

Looking at your proposals as an investor I would have to pass as I can see nothing but headaches as nothing adds up plus sounds like chaos.

These sims aren't going to have a Mickey Mouse theme are they?

"Clear" would be using punctuation, such as full stops/periods/dots - call them what you will. And start sentences with an upper case character. You are looking for people to join you in your venture, but do you know how aggravating it is reading posts that have no punctuation at all - like yours? Intentionally making things difficult to read is not the best way of influencing people in a positive way.

But it seems she or he is asking for 'sponsors' (investors) to 'kick start' it with.

In other words, selling shares in their idea - and I'm not sure what is promised the contributers in return, if anything.

From what I understand, the OP wants others to chip in so they can buy a full sim and then let (other?) people pay what they want and rez what they want. (But I find sakura's posts indecipherable. One must at least try to make a professional impression if asking others to be part of a business venture, even virtually, in my opinion.)

sakura it's hard to get a large group of strangers to agree on things, especially where things like home, prim allocation and division of resources are concerned. Maybe if you knew them and you were all in agreement on everything before the project launched. But, it sounds as if there really IS no plan. Someone please correct me on any of the above, if I'm mistaken.

Again, the best way would be to begin with what you can afford to pay for and see if things grow from there. Actually, the best way would be to work for an existing baron as a land manager or something, and learn the trade.

My .02.