would you be willing to join the land revolution?

Where can people join this group 'Land Revolution' and exactly what does it cost?

Alright sakura, lets try again, remember we are trying to give positive critisism and help you avoid making a costly mistake.

So your plan is buying 2 full sims, with a bit of luck buying two for 23000 L$ is posible, you might even find 2 grandfathered class 4 sims, by now they are running on class 5 hardware anyway so no preformance drawback there.

This will give you 30000 prims total, a slight overbooking of 3 people but you might be lucky enough to make that work so we are going to asume you have that covered.

Now the costs, 2 grandfathered full sims will cost you and your sponsers 195 USD per sim is 390 USD per month.
Your income will be 2300 L$ per week, this comes down to 9857 L$ per month or 37 USD.
This leaves a gap of 353 USD or 94957 L$ every month for you and the sponsers to pay.

As a small estate owner I have to warn you for the aditional hidden cost in the form of drama, people leaving, time used to handle griefers and fights and people wanting something done right now.

Now it is up to you to answer the question is this all worth the idea of helping people to a cheap home?

I would conclude it is not worth it but maybe you are braver and more thick skinned then me.

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and a few

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Hope these help you out.

If you want to be taken seriously then you need to be upfront about EVERYTHING, tell people the whole plan, who these sponsors are etc etc.

So far all anyone is seeing is what appears to be a half thought out plan with half thought out additions to make it seem to work. ("I'm might buy second sim", well thats another 23K upfront plus tier, where is the cash for that coming from? These sponsors? if thats the case why don't they sponsor the first sim and then you can say "Here is what I have right now, want to be a part of it? sign here, etc etc"

We are not evil mean nay sayers here, but many of us have seen things like this before, know what works and what doesn't. Some of us have even done similar things or contributed to similar things.

For example I personally sponsored a homestead sim for about 7-8 months for a public good project to use for R&D, and I paid 50% of the tier for 3-4 months for a sim garden project on Zindra.

What I am trying to show you is that we can help you, if you let us, but we aren't going to go off shoving money at something that clearly can't work on the information we have been given.

Please learn proper sentence structure. You are making a business proposition, not just conversing. You want people to invest real money. If you aren't willing to take the time to present yourself in a professional manner, it doesn't bode well for your plan.

Those are the relevant numbers. (Working the numbers from scratch, I get a gap of L$94943--essentially the same.) That's where this all seems unworkable: Are there really sponsors drawn to the prospect of shelling out a total of L$ 100K each month to subsidize housing? On an ongoing basis? And to subsidize just whomever signs up?

I'm all for in-world giving, but when the numbers are this big, the question arises: Is this really the most important thing to which US$ 350 /mo could be donated?

(Just in passing, if grandfathered sims weren't used, the gap would grow to US$ 553 /mo.)

All things considered, including the mathematics ... I'll pass

No, you missed some of my point. The problem is that you haven't provided any assurance that any of this is actually taken care of. "I might" buy another sim is what we in the software field call "vaporware". It's just talk until there is some reason to believe it. That reason MUST be more than taking your word for it.
Most of the ones responding here seem to very interested in seeing this work, or at least how it can work. I, for one, am not saying it can't, only saying you have not presented enough details for me to have confidence.
What, besides your word, assures investors that they are getting what they pay for?
Who is paying - is it your personal income? If it is, what assures investors that you will continue to pay?
I have seen too many "projects" in SL and RL poof simply because the person with the money got bored and went on to something else, leaving others with no money and no project.
Trust REQUIRES more than just asserting that we are being naysayers - you MUST give something to make that trust a sane option.

Sakura,

Listen to these people. They are not being negative, they are trying to tell you about financial realities.

The reason that there are so few group-owned residential sims, commune-style, is that you can't count on people to "do the right thing". Let's say 20 people sign on to your project, and pay the up front fee. You buy your sim. Next month, tier comes due. And it WILL be $195.00 USD per month for a mainland sim, $295.00 or more a month for a private island.

You send IMs to your group. "Please pay $Lxxxx for your share of our tier this month". Three people send money, the rest don't. YOU are responsible for paying the tier, you can't MAKE anyone else do anything.

This is why almost all sim owners have a formal rental system. Tenants pay the rental box on time, or the owner returns all their stuff and rents the parcel to someone else. No drama, no hassle (yes, Des, I know, I KNOW. I'm simplifying here.)

About the only way I can see a communal group working is if you know all the members in RL. A bunch of college roommates, for example, or some sort of professional group or members of a company.

My first land was done in a similar situation, but the owner and the backers paid for everything, they even gave me back the L$1 I used to buy the land, I had no costs at all, there was a plan to make back the money through other means, but after 6 months this fell through, so the sim closed. But I met some of the best people/creators in SL there, I met my SL/RL partner there and I learned most of my skills in that period too, and it cost me nothing.

Here's an issue people keep bringing up which you haven't yet addressed satisfactorily. You state the each member can have a much land (space) as they need for their house, up to their maximum prims. OK, out of the 23 members, 4 have castles that spread over a 1/4 sim each.

Simple question: where do the other 19 put their houses?

Yes, we can build in 3D, and they can put them on sky platforms. But they put in their money on the understanding they'd get space on the ground for their houses. You have to restrict the land usage of individuals, because at the moment it seems to be 'as much as you can grab'. Unless you have 23 extremely fair-minded individuals, there will be drama.

Also, to provide the 1500 prims you offer, you *WILL* have to buy another sim. Will, not might, or in the future. More than one, in fact, because you are offering a total of 34,500 prims, and a sim only provides 15000.

If you can do what you claim: buy and support 2 or more sims at massive personal expense to provide land at extremely cheap rates, then I salute your generosity. This isn't a business venture, it's a charity. Good luck to you.

fine then i WILL buy 2 sims and im paying the majority of the tier just so you know and thats why when poeple bring up the cost im not all that concerned and as for lissa fimicoloud actions speak louder than words youll know my dedication if you join the groiup and give me a chance but how can you say im not dedicated or trustworthy ? you havent been there when i was looking for land for this group and you werent therer when i went around telling people about it in world all you know is what ive told you and i think youre just being negative and not wanting to believe that its gonna work im just trying to help people with this

this is my way of doing charity people want to complain because what im charging is so cheap but this group was designed for people that dont really have a lot and no im not asking for real money all the prices are ls its a group contribution that is also designed to show people that its possible for an ordinary person to help people and build a community and you guys are saying that this is all positive critisism but all i hear is negativity and how it wont work if it was positive critisism you guys would be suggestion ways to make it work and frankly regardless as to what anyone thiinks im going to do this because its the right thing to do the other 19 people will be able to live on the second sim

You still miss the point. You are asking us to trust you on your word alone. We don't know you, so why should we trust you? SL is FULL of people saying "trust me" just so they can steal, how do we know you aren't one of them? We are asking you to give us a REASON to trust you.
No, we weren't there, so we are asking for the information. I don't see many saying it won't work, just many saying you haven't given us enough information to make a good decision.
It is NOT that a good deed can't work - good deeds can and do work all the time. The ones that work are the ones with OPEN COMMUNICATION, where the people involved know how things are going to be handled.
It's all in the details, and we don't have the details.

*blinks* Sakura.. you do realize that no matter what Linden Lab says, the L$ has a cash value right? It's bought and sold for actual RL currencies, not just play money that people have no use for.

That brings me to my next question, one that might have been asked earlier, but I'm not going to bother reading again. If you're going to paying for the sim(s) in L$, then are you actually buying private islands or renting them? Because if you're renting them, you might want to state that up front too. The only other thing I can think of it that they'd be mainland sims.. which is fine, but probably should stated just in cases.

/me looks back and forth between this thread and Desmond's recent land baron thread.

One of these things is not like the other.

(sakura if you are doing this out of charitable inclinations - that's great! But I'd be prepared to shoulder it yourself - rather than asking others to contribute. If you can't afford to carry the entire bill, it's built on shaky ground.)

That's because Desmond knows exactly what it is like to run a rental sim...in fact, a whole bunch of them. He's done it for years, and he's heard it all. He is still here because he is honest, fair, and hard working, and he...listen up, Sakura...UNDERSTANDS THE NUMBERS.

Sakura has a dream, and thinks that is all it takes to succeed.

/me hands Sakura a calculator and an eyeshade.

Think again, sister.

The last thing you want is tier payment you barely make month to month.

I am really confused that someone who has past posts including asking to share others land and about weddings as they have little money is now saying they will fund tier on two full sims as a sort of charity.

In short the answer to your question is NO.
You say to trust you but as others have stated we dont know you so, I do research and look over your old posts and find this " then there is this



Now were you really short on money or were you trying it on ? And you can be an english teacher umm so what was the issue in the first post then?

I have just looked at your profile in SL and this was a huge eyeopener to me "hey my name is sakura =D i used to make clothes but my store wnet out of buisness i enjoy traveling its nice to see all the different country sims "

well liste up lindal..I SAID IM GOING TO PAY FOR IT....and you guys are basing my success off of past failures but the truth of it is things have changed since then and you g uys are jumping to all these conclusions about me but the truth is i know how to make this work and i do understand the number if i didnt i wouldnt be saying im going to buy a second sim not only that but if i d idnt i wouldnt have said im paying the difference in tier so who are you to say that my charity will or wont work

and my answer to windswept gold is what does that sentence have to do with anything? i havent updated my profile in weeks so for you to be basing your idea of me off something that old is just silly not only that but like i said before my future doesnt ride off my past failures youre reffering to my noobie post the difference is i had only been on sl for 9 days then and now ive been on for about a year and you guys are criticizing this idea but the thing is im at least brave enough to try it because im willing to sacrifice what i have to provide for other people and try and change a mindset i also think its funny how you guys are saying your purpose is to help but what it seems more like is discouragment so im just going to tell you right now if you posted all this to discourage me it wont work so dont waste your energy typing negative things you may as well just make suggestions if you feel that strongly about it because i know i can do this it is possible i just need help getting it kickstarted and i feel like youre doing a great job of making assumptions of why it wont work but the thiing is how can you say it wont work when ive talked to several people that have done what im trying to do and say it will and are willing to be supportive and sponsor the group

Sakura, you have a very poor presentation style, confrontational, defensive, and unwilling to listen. I suggest if you have all these backers that are already on board with you to support and sponsor you, that you all go and build your dream. These people here are trying to help you. You cannot see that, to save your life. So, why are you here, arguing about it? You already have the supporters and sponsors you require, so you said. What is it you are wanting from the people here? Go get 'em, girl, best of luck to you.

i do want to listen and i do want help but i prefr suggestions rather than people telling me i cant do it because theny oure right i wont listen because i know i can do it

First off its Windsweptgold one word. your starting date 7/3/2009 it is now 1/21/2010 so that is 6 mths not about a year
As was said above you have the backers then go do it prove us wrong

What specific assistance do you say you need in "getting it kickstarted"?

Then, you should just go do it, as you did not get the type of responses that you wanted here. They didn't say you couldn't do it. They are skeptical, and why shouldn't they be? You sound as if you don't want anyone to question your plan. A good business plan can stand being picked apart, and questioned. The owner of that plan can stand up to scrutiny. You have become defensive and argumentative and have not shown at all how your plan will work, just got snippy when people questioned you about it. The math didn't add up. They questioned you about it and you got mad. It all went south from there.