crazy neighbours

Now, let me tell you what happened. This person put up the ugliest building imaginable, with huge, poorly done textures proclaiming Chris Rock Rocks My World. It was a five story house of cards, litterally. Inside, the worst pornography imaginable, poorly done to boot, and very primative furniture for sale. Oh yes, the building was topped with a huge Land For Sale sign.

The entire neighborhood tried various things, they kept buying up land as people moved out, and putting up more hideous buildings. We reported it, and the answer was, it is their land, they can build anything they want. Regardles of the fact that the rest of the neighborhood was very well done.

Plan B. We stopped responding, and we did not sell out. My partner and I own 1/4 of that particular sim, so our refusal to sell basically limited them to odd plots. Once we stopped dealing with them at any level, they finally sold out an left.

The sim, however, is only now recovering, 8 months later.

I just wanted you to know the score. Unless he overtly harrasses you, the Lindens have to abide by TOS. So they will do nothing.

Simply ignore him. He will get bored with it.

Best of luck!

In response to the question above. I rounded down to the nearest 1,000 L$ (about a 280L$ difference). I think that the land bot was programmed to search for parcels at below market rates in the sim, and jumped on it immediately. I had planned to decrease price in increments until I got a hit, and was quite surprised to get such an immediate response.
As i said, I was so fed up with the aggravation of having such bizarre neighbors that I was prepared to get what I could, even if I lost money on the deal. Glad to get out slightly ahead.
My new situation gives me more land and prims, and actually is costing me less since I can downgrade to basic. The lost 300 L$ for premium will not be missed, and even with land tier cost ot the sim owner, it is no more than what I was paying to LL, without the added cost of membership fees.
You just need to look around. There are some good values on the private sims, but also a lot of over priced situations. Just be patient and search until you find what you need.

I realized that the above may not be clear enough. (Long day in RL and a glass of cognac does not leave me as sharp as usual) The parcel was three linked 512's, and the 280 difference was applied to each 512 for a total of 840 under average price for the amount of land involved. All the other plots I could find in the area were 512's or 1024's, so I averaged the prices based on a 512 model.

The sheer irony can be reversed
1) you use too many adjectives to judge people that dont agree with you, is that a "childish and arrogant behaviour" too???
2) You defend too much the neighbor, what makes me think if you're not the one demanding the use of the neigbor's land for your recreational purposes.
3) We have had some abusive neighbor at some point and maybe that's why we feel identified by the original poster, now, why are you feeling identified with the neighbor that's griefing?


To answer your direct questions
*****"What do you call a person who's so selfish that they won't let their neighbors use a small bit of waterway that in no way whatsoever impacts them as landowners?"********
I'll answer this one with another question.
Who told you that it doesnt impact you to have somebody using your land if you are using it, lets say for a gathering with your friends? or who told you it doesnt impact you if he rezzes something so high primmed that it makes your own prims return to your lost and found?

****Why isn't it a selfish and jerky thing to do to block your neighbors access to a portion of your land? Especially when you, and the land owner, lose nothing by it?***********
Could be the same reply as above, but lets answer you directly... because when I buy something, and pay for it with the money I earn working hard, I want to do with it what I want without giving explanations to people who make charity using other people's property (is the irony detectable??)

Have a good day

I have the pleasure of having one of those crazy neighbours as well...
Her fence was crossing onto my property for a while, I didn't mind at the time because it was just water. Now I would like to build something in that spot so I sent a friendly IM asking to move the fence a little.
The very next day I found myself staring at huge red ban lines! She didn't answer my IM, but moved me onto her ban list. God knows why because I was very nice to her.
I sent her another message appologizing if my previous message had insulted her and invited her over for a chat, you know, work things out.
She then got into a rant saying how much she hated my build and that it was obstructing the perfect sunset for her skybox renters on THE NEXT SIM!
I changed the texture on the build to be the nice neighbour that I am, but she put up another poorly alligned and textured ban wall. That one is now crossing my property again (only by a little) so I decided to AR her. I don't wish to put anymore energy into it.
She built this ban wall which is prohibiting pretty much everyone else in the sim to cross over to that side and all because of a few minor details which we could have worked out if only she had talked to me...
I refuse to play her childish game and therefore she is still NOT on my ban list contrary to what she has been saying.
I'm just going to sit this one out since things have a way of working out in SL by itself.
I live at a great place called Sonyo and I have otherwise fantastic neighbours with whom I have a lot of fun! Come and visit the place sometime, all are welcome!

Some people are just that immature, unfortunately...

Hmm I suspect if I was to own a block that was partially water then maybe I would spilt my parcel to allow access to the water part for all but still be able to exlude those I didn't want in the land part. This doesn't cause any problems I know of, but I could be wrong.

But if they're going to be a pain about it then stuff them.

i had another post here and realised it really had nothign to do with what the OP had asked.

so ima follow my partners example and say: yes, more often than it should.

Yes. Yes it is.

Buying/Renting from private estates is definitely the way to avoid the majority of issues that are presented here.

Mainland is completely uncontrolled and you never know when your next neighbor will be a club filled with camping chairs or a very unreasonable person.

I've gone back and forth on the ban line thing; however, I'm now at the point that I hate them and feel strongly that general ban lines (as opposed to banning a specific individual) are very bad for the SL experience.

I've stopped trying to travel over any mainland below the line limit for fear of being ban bounced, orb warned, bounce again, orb warning, orb warning 6 seconds - eject, nightmare.

You're paying rent for mainland anyway in the form of tier to LL and you get nothing in return in terms of protection or support.

I prefer to pay my tier (rent) to an estate owner that has direct control over the quality of my experience.

I've previously owned 8192 of mainland and I've rented three plots on different islands -this is what I've learned:

Mainland sucks for a multitude of reasons - lack of any limitations at all on your neighbors' behavior/builds and the huge potential for lag producing commercial property draining sim resources are the primary negatives. Another negative is that all it takes for that property you bought for $125 and pay $40 a month for to lose a lot of its value is one club filled with camping chairs or ban line happy neighbors.

Estates can also suck, but if you're renting all you have to do is pack your stuff, find another plot on another estate and move. Yes, packing and setting up again can be a pain, but it actually gets easy once you figure out how to do it efficiently.

The key aspects of getting an estate plot, from my perspective, follow:

1. Don't buy the plot and if the only way to get it is to buy it - find another estate. Spending a lot of money to buy a chunk of virtual land that is completely under another person's control makes no sense to me. There are some very well established estates where buying land makes sense in terms of it retaining value, but on the whole I see no point in buying an estate plot and then paying a premium monthly tier to the estate owner. Better that you pay a higher premium on the monthly tier payment and retain the flexibility to move whenever you like without having to worry about selling the land. Also, if you rent, there's no chance that the estate owner will skip tier or quit the game leaving the land you bought for $200 up for auction with no recourse.

2. Read the covenant carefully and then fly around the estate to see if it's enforced. If it says no commercial usage - look for anything commercial - rentals included. Any commercial activity significantly increases traffic and increased traffic = significantly increased likelihood of annoyance/griefing. If it says no ban lines and several people have ban lines up = estate manager doesn't enforce the covenant.

3. Talk to the estate manager before you enter into a long term (month) rental agreement. If they're responsive and reasonable before you're renting from them, they're more likely to be that way after you're renting from them.

4. Be willing to relocate if your living conditions deteriorate. This is huge and why I'm such a big advocate of renting instead of buying. I've seen "Island Paradise" turn into rental filled griefer/lag fest in a couple weeks. Estate owners lose focus, have RL issues, get tired of SL or break-up with their SL partner...whatever, the bottom line is that you maintain pretty much complete control of your experience in SL by renting rather than buying.

Long post, but pretty much every post I've read in this thread is complaining about issues that are exclusive to mainland.

Slightly under price your land so one of the bots grabs it and then find a nice estate plot.

Right now I'm on a 10k something plot with 2370 prims, no ban lines or orbs anywhere, a really cool Owner that lives in the middle of her islands, is on-line frequently and it's running 18k per month, split between two people.

(note: I do not own islands and do not rent plots ;p)

Well, phew, I've finally got through reading all the replies. Thank you all very much indeed for taking the time to post. As to Bruja being ban-line and security orb central, yes, there are a number of these. However, whilst Bruja has no specific covenant or zoning, it has become a largely residential area, and there are no shops or public bars that I'm aware of. In the circumstances I would say then that the bans and orbs are not unreasonable. As Fluff Payne pointed out, the water is an inland lake, and there is no public water at all. For a long time we did not have an orb, but so many people arrived and made use of our stuff, and would not leave when asked, that we felt it would be the simplest solution. We don't really like parcel bans either! A lot in Bruja however don't affect us, as we have friendly relationships with all our other neighbours. The Beck estates mentioned are owned by Sy Beck, who has been perfectly charming and very friendly. I believe his intention is to privately rent his apartments. The neighbour with whom we have had problems could indeed have more space for his yacht, since he has a large parcel of land which had a good deal of water when he bought it. He has raised the land himself. The yacht is rather a high prim item, and we would have to turn off our auto return to permit him to sail it into our parcel. This would have implications for our own possesions, if we wanted to rez something. Also there is the question of where would he take his yacht? We have a bay large enough for swimming and small boats, but we also have a little atoll of islands through which I'm afraid his yacht couldn't pass. These islands house our diving deck and skydive pod and are also for quiet relaxation. We don't plan to remove them, as they add to our enjoyment of the land and make it more attractive.

To the posters who have quite rightly said that I have not put my neighbour's point of view, I have to say that this is true. But only because I don't know what his point is! We had screens that were invisible to him. They were there as a backdrop to our planting. We didn't put them up to upset this man, simply as one might in RL plant a large shrub to screen off an ugly shed in their garden. He then put up the first of his very large walls, much higher than our screens. As I said, we did remove our screens, we did add him to our access, we did offer to help him make his land more pleasant for him. There was no gain to us in any of this, and he agreed to what we suggested. Then, once he had access he changed his tune entirely, rejecting all help or suggestions and making no changes to the sadly ugly view which we had back! In view of this, and his offensive comments, which I must say Fluff forbears better than I, we had to ban him.

I hope this clears up any confusion that arose from my first post, and I would like to thank all those who took the time to reply, and who invited me to visit their homes. I will be sending an invitation to all who have replied, if they would like to visit. It is greatly heartening that the overall response has been so sympathetic and helpful, and I am again reminded of what a friendly place SL is.

Thank you all, very much.
Pixie xx

Hi Jellin, thanks for taking the time to post. We didn't actually ban our neighbour until a few days ago. I have explained why we have an orb, but if anyone wants to visit they can send us an IM and we are happy to invite them over.
I hope you know that I didn't refer to my neighbour as a 'bad man'. I would not do that.
As I have explained, the water here is an inland lake, and is all privately owned, so we couldn't very well let someone sail through if they would be unable to travel to the next plot along! We would effectively be giving access to someone who contributes nothing to the maintenance of the land, or to the tier payments, and who has been very offensive. As to whether there should be public waterways, well, that's another matter. I think it would be very pleasant indeed, if well maintained.
I deliberately didn't name my neighbour, because as irritating to us as his behaviour has been, I feel it would be wrong and bullying behaviour on my part to do so. I have stated, very clearly, that he has the absolute right to do as he pleases on his land. As do we.
My original post was simply to ask whether others in SL have had similar problems, and it appears that they have. We will think about moving at some point, although probably we will buy an island/whole sim, which should circumvent our current problems at least. And Fluff would like it too, I'm sure!

Pixie xx

Well the answer to the first question is it pays to be nice and therefor it's not bad at all...

The answer to the second question is that it depends on your property, how it is developed and where the desired access for passage is. I'll try and illustrate with my own personal situation:

I have 1024m2 of land which is totally underwater and borders a protected Linden land sim which is also 100% water. Because of the small size of the plot I have a build (house and garden on pilings above the water) covering 100% of the plot.

Now say my neighbour who owned the plot behind me wanted to sail his boat through my land and out onto the protected Linden land. Under normal circumstances if I had an undeveloped portion of the plot that could be used as a channel, then I would have no problem with that (assuming his boat would fit).

But since my build covers 100% of the land/water the only way to grant access would be to raise the height of the build sufficiently above the water which would be unaesthetic, a chore and compromise the enjoyment of my land. I don't see why in this example I should compromise my build to allow access.

FYI I personally don't believe in ban lines and do not use them.

Hi everyone, we at Plumb Bay are holding a regatta on 21st April, from 2.00pm Linden time, 10.00pm in the UK. there will be dancing, games and competitions. Our orb will be off for 3 hours, so if any of you would like to drop in, whether to join in or just to look around you will be very welcome. If you cannot come at that time, please IM me and I will issue an invitation for a time convenient to you. Once SL is back up and running, I will send this message out as an IM with a landmark to you all, but it may take me some time.

Thanks again to all of you for taking the time to post.
Pixie xx

Thank you, that answered all my questions completely. For my point of view, since he can't actually boat anywhere since it's a small private lake, you are in the right and your neighbors the one acting the fool.

To everyone else who jumped on me, wasn't it all so easy when things were explained by the OP? But thanks for your , well, let's call it 'input'.

Why be like that?

We jumped all over you because you were being a little rude to the OP and making up stories. You were the one that derailed it by calling her integrity into question.

And now this? Why the last bit? It would have been fine with the first, but...

well, smug condescention doesn't look good on anyone, sir.

Pixelplumb - I'd much prefer to run into ban lines and go around than to be TP'd home when just flying through a plot of land and yours is so big that if someone stops to read the pop-up they will not have time to get off your land before the 10 seconds is up. Maybe extend the time to 30 seconds to give people time to get off your land because it is so big.

Anyone who posts a very one sided story will always get me to ask questions about the other side or parts of the story that were left out.

A better question would be why everyone was so quick to believe the OP without any evidence or testimony to the contrary? The OP made a statement and no one, not one person, stepped back and said "well that doesn't sound like the whole story".

And as for calling her integrity into question, you go ahead and find one place where I did that without quoting me out of context. I originally said if what you say is true, then the guy is in the wrong, but if you're not telling the whole story, or if he just wanted to use a waterway, then the OP is in the wrong. And I asked for more detail.

Then everyone started in on me, dumping more and more what-ifs to the problem. And I answered the what-ifs. So, if answering all your what-ifs is making up stories, well so be it, but I wasn't the one building the drama, I just asked the OP for more detail and what I thought about what she said.

Personally I think a lot of people in this thread should do some real thinking about WHY you all reacted the way you did. You know, the knee-jerk response to believe without any question whatsoever the story of the OP.

I think its because some people really value their own privacy and have had similar incidents happen tothem - at least so far as "freeloaders" EXPECTING to have access to our land and property. I like my private times at home with my boy friend.. for talks, discussions and intimate moments. I dont like uninvited guests wandering about then. I also like to have friends over and just visit. Uninvited guests are a disruption.

Also, and I know that many disagree with me here, but I think if I pay for theland, pay the tier everymonth and build or purchase items that I should be able to control who enters and uses them its just simple.

There are many many people here on SL who honestly believe its one giant playground and everything in it is a toy for their potential enjoyment. I have ban line sup because I am SICK of rude people walking in onme at times I dont wish to be disturbed, refusing to leave when asked and telling me I am a selfish jerk for wanting them to go.

I reacted the way I did because I disagree completely with the concept of taking away my rights and privileges as a landowner. I think that it's wrong and, to be honest, the only argument from the other side is pretty much "I want to use your land".

Add to that your constant moving of the goalposts and ignoring valid points and things get heated. I spent a lot of money to enter into an agreement with Linden Labs that the virtual land that I pay for is mine to use as I see fit, within the stipulations set out in that agreement. What the other side seems to be asking for, and in some cases demanding, is for that agreement to be broken and for it to be changed so that a few people who choose not to use public lands can use my private land and that just seems incredibly unfair to me.

You asked me to point to where you called her integrity into question without misquoting.
I think the paragraph above it does just that.

"A better question would be why everyone was so quick to believe the OP without any evidence or testimony to the contrary? The OP made a statement and no one, not one person, stepped back and said "well that doesn't sound like the whole story"."

That, in my opinion, is the very definition of calling her integrity into question. I had no reason to question her motives, and, as it turns out, rightly so.

You then say:
"I originally said if what you say is true, then the guy is in the wrong, but if you're not telling the whole story, or if he just wanted to use a waterway, then the OP is in the wrong. And I asked for more detail."

And this I disagree with as well. Regardless of what she did, and I notice you never answered the question about your views on this, the neighbor's behaviour was unacceptable to me.

If the guy just wanted to use the waterway, she is completely within her rights to deny him access. Regardless of whether it's neighborly or being a good citizen of SL or anything. She was, and still is, completely within her rights. She was not in the wrong in any way, shape or form, as SL is set up at the moment.

May I infer from what you said in that quote that there is a possibility that you believe that the neighbor's actions were justified? 'Cuz it sure seems like you think it was a reasonable response with "...then the OP is in the wrong."

This may be what caused all the trouble. You want everyone to not believe what the OP said without some proof or clarification, but you seemed to be under the assumption that if it wasn't the whole story then the OP was wrong, without actually hearing the whole story. Almost too willing to believe that the OP wasn't telling the truth, which is just as bad.

What got my back up was the way you said the OP would be in the wrong if the neighbour wanted to use her water to pass through. Restricting access to your land does not give your neighbour a right to trash your view and drop prims on you just for the hell of it. Boaters have no "rights" on private land, regardless of whether it is a private lake or it joins linden water.

actually, if you had bothred to read her nieghbor's post, it wasnt one sided, they confirmed, and in one paragraph, actually admitted having a conversation with thier nieghbor, to find out his side side and to ask why he was behaving in such a way.



may i ask why you were so quick to "defend" such behavior so quickly w/o any evidence yourself? at least a few did go themselves to investigate before posting. and many just replied because they too have been met with this attitude. its not that they were so quick to believe the OP, they had experiances to share as well.



i must say, you are correct there, however i do believe the "if you are denying him access to the waterway, it is you who are being jerks" is what made people jump on you. it has been stated that it wasn't there before they bought the parcel, in fact she built it.



sorry to say, yes you were. in fact, you became very "knee jerk" reactive yourself.



as was stated in another post, because its thier land. period. you have no more right to abuse anothers property, than i have to stroll into Your real life kitchen and help myself to your coffee and pop tarts. maybe you should re read your posts. and i agree with the previous poster, condescending smugness is in itself rude, and maybe, just maybe, if you would actually think about how you'd feel if someone trashed your hard work, you'd understand how many here feel about this tyoe of behavior, and not be so closed minded on others experiances.

P.S. one may also wonder if you are "said" nieghbor the OP is speaking of

To the OP, ...good luck with the neighbor and ty for coming back and posting more details to the situation. Now that its understood where the parcels are next to each other its easier to picture what you describe and you are, of course where before as well, fully within your rights to leave him banned or have the access list activated. I'm now laughing at the image of someone trying to boat around in a huge boat on a small lake...plowing over the poor people enjoying their water floaties and swimming fun. I need to learn not to picture everything lol.

I agree with many many people here, the best thing to do? If you want your screen of landscaping up, put it back up, enjoy your land, do with it what you feel will make it more enjoyable and just wait it all out. He will get bored poking at someone who just doesnt react, whats the point in that? Good luck none the less and enjoy your water!

*nods*

Of course if the neighbour asked POLITELY for access JUST to the waterfront JUST to sail away to the ocean. Then it would be un-neighbourly to refuse...

BUT in this case the OP is 100% right, sounds like the neighbour has been far from polite in which case he doesn't deserve an neighbourly reasonabliness.

Agreed. Un-neighborly, but still not wrong. Un-neighborly does not mean "in the wrong", in my opinion. Yes? No?

its all POV. imho, the crazy nieghbor, who henceforth shall be referred to as CN, at least by this poster, was un-nieghborly in his reactions. even when the OP allowed him access.

my question is, if sailing is so important, as i see some posters have posted here, and waterways on privately owned land are at such a premium, may i suggest a sim be created to cater to just that particular need?