crazy neighbours

LL should use the old servers to outline the mainland waterfront properties and use those as public waterways.

Nothing's bad about being nice to your neighbors.

And it doesnt hurt you to let neighbors passage - unless your neighbors wont respect your privacy.

If you get too many non-neighbors intruding then you could add just your neighbors to your access list and put up ban lines to limit that.


However, in no way is it Okay to force people to allow passage by their neighbors. Its entirely the land owners perogative.

And I agree with you 100% regardless of how people are reacting to my posts, or what people are selectively reading in my posts.

now, Colette, based on your answers, lets take my questions one step further and see if anyone else can answer them as easily as you did, shall we?


If it's not bad to be nice to your neighbors, would you say being nice to your neighbors is better than being bad to your neighbors?

And

As long as your neighbors respect your privacy and only use your water way as passage, and it doesn't hurt the land owner to allow said passage, could we then say that allowing passage by your neighbors is a nice thing to do?

Sad that you have to go through these steps, but just put up the No Entry Wall and add avatars who can access your land. Make sure Make sure "Create Objects" and "Object Entry" is UNchecked. That should dtop him from putting objects across your borders and even entering your land. Report abuse and if Linden does nothing about it, contact me in game, there are other ways to make griefers go away.

Nowhere does it say that a waterway giving access to "ocean" is the problem at issue here. that seems to be an arbitrary presumption. So we are having pages of debate on a purely hypothetical supposition rather than address the question of how common childishly selfish and arrogant behavior that amounts to griefing is in SL.

Even if a "waterway" allowing access to the "ocean" is involved, I fail to see why the alleged boatowner can't just pack up their boat and go rezz it on an accessible shoreline - unless they want to invent an excuse for the kind of property griefing OP has reported.

Finally, since we see all this griefing, looks to me like a neighbor here who does not deserve to be granted access of any kind whatever for any reason. Sometimes being nice to someone is educating them that their boorish behavior is unrewarding and unwise.

Perhaps Jellin will be nice to the folks posting here, and go troll some other thread...

There is not a thing wrong with being nice to one's neighbors. One of the things I try to do to be nice is to respect their property rights and their privacy. I don't traipse across their lands. I think that is nice. I don't rez objects of any kind on the lands or thers. I think that is nice. I try not to build ugly or unpleasant looking objects onmy land. I think that is nice. I don't demand that people give me acces to what isnt mine. I think that is nice.

I expect others may disagree with me. I understand and respect their points of view, although I disagree. I don't let the disagreement become an excuse for name calling. I think that is nice.

I don't have access to water on any of my properties. If I wanted water access bad enough I would PAY for it. I see no reason to force others to pay for my use of it though. Isn't that nice?

Actually, the OP never did get around to telling anyone exactly what this neighbor wants, other than to say he demands access to the water. Originally I posted asking what is the crux of the dispute. I said that IF it were a simple dispute about allowing a person minor access to a waterway, then perhaps the childish and arrogant behavior is on the part of the OP.



Once again I seem to have to repeat myself to people who have selective hearing. I agree with the above. With one proviso .... the OP describes a number of vehicles left on her property. You don't have to be a griefer to lose vehicles when you hit a ban line. But please, feel free to ignore that pertinent fact.



Once again, (do people even actually read this stuff? Or just one word out of five?) who said the neighbor deserves anything? And it seems, from the rather selective (though it seems I'm the only one to notice just how selective it was) description the OP gave, the neighbor started acting the fool after the OP banned him. And yes, once again, we only suspect this entire thing is about waterway access since the OP has neither confirmed or denied that.

So ...

If the neighbor only started acting like an ass after he was denied use of a waterway, then my original unanswered questions (except for Colette) still stand.

Who was the jerk first? The land owner who said "No! NONONO Nobody but MEMEME can step foot in MY water! NYAH!"

Or the neighbor who said "Hey! Can I use the waterway here? Just boating through"

Now, one the whole other hand, who is the troll? The OP asked a question about conduct. I gave an answer. So that makes me a troll? Wokay. If you say so, jeez.

Or, we can look at it a different way. We can look at the OP who with sweetness and spice painted their neighbor as a villain most foul while painting themselves as upright pillars or citizenship. And then asked the community who's right and who's wrong.

Hey, that sounds as fair and balanced as Fox News, doesn't it?

Is the OP a troll then for trying to shame without names her neighbor? No, that couldn't be, she writes so pretty. And it's so gollydarned popular to ban the world from your bit of property these days after all. Watch out! They'll steal your palm trees!

Perhaps my favorite part of this thread is when the OP tells everyone "Oh the bad man did stuff" and right away, without any real idea of the true situation, or any idea of what the OTHER side of the story is, people start labeling the neighbor as a child throwing a tantrum, a 4 year old.

I'm sorry if you don't understand the sheer irony of that, but it's funny.

It's very nice. It's also very nice that you seem to have completely avoided my questions and my points. Very nice.

I find it intriguing.. I have a theory..

it sounds like the angry neighbor is seeing "banlines" that deny him access to the parcel. And in his "broken english" that may be what he's complaining about. If the OP has an access list, or has set up some kind of access restrictions, then they may not be aware that from their neighbor's perspective, they've erected a 100+m wall of garish red "NO ENTRY" lines.

So now the OP is the bad guy?

Now the acceptable response to being banned is to basically grief the person banning you?

As I said before (funny how the person railing at everyone to read the thread didn't respond to this), regardless of who did what, how the OP behaved or whatever, IS this behaviour, is this response ok?

I don't think it is, no matter WHAT the OP did.

The rest, the "What's wrong with being nice", the "Is it access to the ocean", everything else is irrelevant.

Doing what the OPs neighbor did is messed up.

"Who was the jerk first? The land owner who said "No! NONONO Nobody but MEMEME can step foot in MY water! NYAH!""

It is difficult for me to imagine the OP speaking in this way. Based on her presentation in this forum, I imagine she did nothing of the sort, and that her neighbor has his own nonstated reasons for being a prick. It is also difficult for me to imagine why you have invented this whole preceding conflict rather than take the OP at her word, since neither you nor I know her or her neighbor or her situation other than what she has already stated. Water rights might be an interesting debate but they have no bearing on this thread at all. We are all duly impressed with your argumentation skills and your accusations of selective hearing. I would, however, point out that you are so distracted by your own thoughts that you have misidentified the gender of the OP. And I would further add that is the least of your problems in this thread. You may walk away convinced you have "won" this imaginary debate, but the victory is entirely in your own head.

So here is my answer to the OP:

1. Yes, childish neighbors are a common experience in SL.
2. Yes, defenders of these childish neighbors are a common experience in SL forums, even if you go out of your way to be courteous and nonspecific in your general question about whether childish neighbors are a common experience in SL.

the bad nayber may just be tring to make money, by being super annoying then setting his land for sale at price no one would buy, cept you being next door......

I personally would just wait, they will get tired of it if you give them no reaction.

And here you have the very crux of what I was saying. We don't know. I don't know, you don't know. All any of us know is a thin story from the OP that I find suspiciously void of anything resembling the other side of the story.

So you just made one up? Well done.

That is true of most complaint posts, you know.

I just went over to Bruja, the location mentioned by the OP, to look around. Result was inconclusive. Most of it is so filled up with banlines (except the extreme northern portion and a new club being built but not yet open in the northeast) that you can't get around.

However, most of the southern area is covered not by banlines but by the security orb the OP and her partner have set up. Another huge chunk is behind the banlines of something called Beck Estates, and seems unrelated, but its owner's English is hardly broken. Frankly, the security orb is more objectionable than the banlines to a visitor, because it quickly shoots you back to your home location (it says it gives you 15 seconds to leave, but that certainly is not 15 sec. from the time you get the warning notice), and among other things it ejects arrivees at the default tp spot for the Bruja region. The owner with the broken English might have a legitimate complaint for all I know - after half an hour of being banned and ejected from all over Bruja I never did find his property, so can't tell if he's being victimized himself or not. For example, if the security orb ejects him and his visitors from some or most of his own property - and he doesn't know how to complain to our English-speaking management.

So, apologies to Jellin; I forgot to be as paranoid as she has obviously learned you must be around here. I think it better to suspend judgment here about the actual situation on the ground. The case as stated, of course, seems clear enough: The guy is land-griefing in that description. No way I found of telling whether he is retaliating for first being land-griefed himself - which would mitigate the offense, if indeed there is an offense. The statement is uncorroborated ATM so we can't be sure that the case as stated is true. So we can only all agree that land-griefing in general is reprehensible.

The short answer to the question posed is: Yes. Land-griefing appears to happen all the time in SL. It happens so often, and there is so much disingenuosness involved in such cases that no-one can really tell whether the OP's neighbor or the OP is the real culprit.

And BTW, as you may have gathered, Bruja is not a very hospitable place, folks.

I signed on here just to have a look around...the creator of this thread caught my eye because she is indeed one of my landmates and the owner of the land I currently live on. I am amazed at how this thread has gone off tangent and gotten people slightly irritated. Yes, pixie has not yet responded to why this neighbor wants land access - so instead of going of on tangents and debating an already dead horse (I gathered that much by the comments on how much this is debated) why not wait for her response?

In short, the neighbor has never really said. Once in conversation to me he mentioned he just wanted to be able to fly through - however we all know he only needs an armband flying thing to just go over.

When we first moved in, we put a ban up just so we could sort things out and learn. We were approached and asked to take it down b/c it caused "lag". Well now three months later - we live in parcel ban central - many people on the new continent have them. We took ours down to be - nice to our neighbor! In the end we were met with what Pixie explained.

So - what does the neighbor want? I have no idea! Attention probably. I actually still get on with him and chat - doesn't mean I agree with everything he's said that has been derogatory or the actions he's pulled on my friends, but life is short to me and I just tend to let things slide. I am adament that his walls were a negative response to our screens as in "oh they don't like me, I won't like them" mentality. "I'll do it bigger and better" mentality.

As for waterfront rights, my family owns private beach property and we pay a higher property tax and a higher price for our home. We are extremely nice to our neighbors and allow them access to the public portion of the beach, but it is not unfair of us to request to them that they stay off our private portion. If we didn't want to be on the beach front, then we would have bought across the street. That partially I think is his gripe, he wanted to rent and marketed it as "beachfront" which it is not. The gonks however put a lot of thought into the property they bought and specifically chose one where people could not build in front of them. He did not - and that is something he will hopefully learn from iff that was what he wanted.

The neighbor has no interest in sailing or swimming - and even if he did - access to plumb's bay wouldn't give him much space as the other neighbors have parcel bans up and it's not an open ocean - it's a bay created by the gonks b/c they sank a good portion of their land.

Hopefully that clears a few issues up - the gonks are not in the wrong here as they have done everything humanly possible to make things work out, so have others who live on this lot. It's actually quite sad, as this is meant to be a virtual community for rest, fun and relaxation, yet "real" things such as land rights, money etc. play into it.

While Bruja is parcel ban central - along with much of the new continent - there are friendly people there! Me for example

The adage treat others as you want to be treated comes to mind here. The members of plumbs bay have done just that and unfortunately have had to resort to other measure due to the way they were treated.

*S*

Hi Pixieplumb,

I had a look at your sim and its not easy getting around with all the banlines, security systems etc



Have you asked him? My guess would be that he objects to the building a few metres in front of his beach, or possibly that his yacht sits in a pond?



It looks like he's a vehicle builder, which probably accounts for some of this.



ARing won't do much - at most he'll get a warning or short ban, and as you point out, he can continue to build what he pleases on his own land anyway. And you each have large parcels in a desirable sim so I imagine neither of you will be inclined to sell up quickly - you could end up being neighbours for quite a long time!

As in any neighbour dispute, I would think you'll get the best outcome by talking, compromise etc as LL are reluctant to get involved in this type of issue. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the dispute, neither of you are happy with the situation as it stands and you won't sort it out unless you know what the perceived problems are. If communication has totally broken down, I understand there are mediation services advertised in SL that might be able to help though I haven't heard whether these are any good or not.

Anyway, hope you sort it out somehow and don't have to live with those screens!

While Bruja is parcel ban central - along with much of the new continent - there are friendly people there! Me for example

I see it like this, if he was soooooooooooo concerned about the water, he should have bought that land also. I know everyone can't afford to buy everything, but if you can't... don't take anything for granted. That's the bottom line.

Life on the mainland can be difficult. I abandoned my mainland property and moved to a private island because I was tired of the antics of my neighbors. First I tried sky living (interesting, but not satisfying as I like gardens) and then backdrops, privacy fences, etc. In the end I was using loads of prims to inadequately screen my view, and losing sight of the sky to boot.
I was contending with junk yards, giant floating, revolving, illuminated question marks, and home brew casinos among other grief. The presence of ban lines (reaction of some of the saner neighbors) and privacy screens presented a nightmare landscape.
Now I have nice neighbors with tasteful houses and yards, well designed public streets, and beautiful views of the sky for a very reasonible price. I am sorry I ever wasted my money on the mainland to begin with.

From the post someone made above (someone that stated they were living in the land with the OP) I'm a bit confused on one thing. Does the annoying neighbor HAVE water front property of their own or is there land sort of behind other parcels of land that are not theirs?

In that respect right there, even to be NICE is a bit much if you are expecting someone to put out a path for someone to get to water that isnt even connected to their land for pity sake. I had some land at one point that had only a small portion of a wider plot that was water front. This seems to be rather common as well, leaving me at the neighbors whim to whether or not other parts of my parcel were water front to this lil pond as well. However, I also have had land that is on the same sim as water, but between me and the water was land owned by someone else like the OP. Its not the OPs job to provide access to water that the land isnt even near.

Also, since when did putting up ban lines come along with lines like 'nyah nyah' and rude mental images of some 2 year old sitting behind the computer with their fingers in their ears??? Or, when did it entitle someone to behave in a rude and offensive way? Since the parcel appears to be between the water and the annoying neighbor, it MAY have actually been bothersom to see this neighbor flying or whatever through their land to the water when he wants to.

So while certain people are inventing situations in their heads of what could or could not be going on...debating on if the OP is really a nice person or not (classic, btw) or if they are nice to their neighbors...you indeed didnt have enough facts to create the situation you did. You dont want to make a snap judgement on the 'annoying neighbor', yet you did quite the job of tossing out ideas of how terrible the OP could be. Dont debate your reply with other posters, ask your questions, sit, and wait for the OP to answer.

One thing about selling land. I noticed that none of the parcels for sale in my neighborhood were selling, so I priced my land just slightly below the average asking price for these plots. Hit sell land and had a sale before I could get my finger off the mouse button. Land bot? Anyway, I made a modest profit, although by that point I would have been glad to go with a loss if I had too.

Wow, I visited this sim and it's not just ban line central, it's security orb central...you can't fly anywhere in the sim hardly without being sent home.

Would be curious to find out just how much lower you priced it. I never could figure out how those bots worked....is it from searches or do they somehow detect the lowest price in a region? Grats on the sale lol

Funny thing about that. I just put up my ban line (my neighbor already had theirs up). The sad part is, all of the griefers are from the next region over. they cross the line to mess with everyone else. I used (3) Home Security Orbs, but finally decided to just put the wall up. Before that, I always found something built on my land and that person was always from the next region over.