Hi, I wonder if anyone else has had the kind of problems we have. My husband (and in world partner) and I bought a beautiful plot of land in Bruja, Mainland new continent. We share the land with 3 other couples who are also friends in RL. We have landscaped and planted our waterfront and it looks really good now. In fact, IM me and you are welcome to come look around! But from the outset one neighbour has had a problem with us. We don't know exactly why, but suspect that he was using the water on our land before we bought it and moved in. Ever since he has behaved in a bullying and unpleasant manner, putting up large, ugly constructions right at the boundary, and sending peculiar unlinked objects into our land, where they became stuck until we could return them. We have had huge boats, spaceships and all sorts of strange bulky unknowns! He insisted that we should allow him 'access to the water', even though this water is actually our land!Eventually we bought a security orb and set it up to permit only ourselves and our friends to enter. We have been scrupulous about protecting foreign land, and are on excellent and very friendly terms with all our other neighbours. To prevent our having to look at this chap's odd stuff, we bought lovely screens to use as a backdrop to our planting. This has been very poorly received, even when the screens were transparent from his side. He has built increasingly huge, 30, 40 and even 50 meter high walls, covered with hideous patterns, and put them up on his side! It seems that we are not allowed to ignore this chap, or his land! I sometimes think that he is unwell, but it is such a nuisance to have this kind of childish behaviour so close at hand.
Of course we ignore this poor man, and hope he will see how silly he is being, but I wonder if this is a common problem?
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Pixieplumb Flanagan
Prop. Baby Monkey
Join date: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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04-17-2007 06:31
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Mandy Carbenell
Recent Item
Join date: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 847
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04-17-2007 06:37
Hi, I wonder if anyone else has had the kind of problems we have. My husband (and in world partner) and I bought a beautiful plot of land in Bruja, Mainland new continent. We share the land with 3 other couples who are also friends in RL. We have landscaped and planted our waterfront and it looks really good now. In fact, IM me and you are welcome to come look around! But from the outset one neighbour has had a problem with us. We don't know exactly why, but suspect that he was using the water on our land before we bought it and moved in. Ever since he has behaved in a bullying and unpleasant manner, putting up large, ugly constructions right at the boundary, and sending peculiar unlinked objects into our land, where they became stuck until we could return them. We have had huge boats, spaceships and all sorts of strange bulky unknowns! He insisted that we should allow him 'access to the water', even though this water is actually our land!Eventually we bought a security orb and set it up to permit only ourselves and our friends to enter. We have been scrupulous about protecting foreign land, and are on excellent and very friendly terms with all our other neighbours. To prevent our having to look at this chap's odd stuff, we bought lovely screens to use as a backdrop to our planting. This has been very poorly received, even when the screens were transparent from his side. He has built increasingly huge, 30, 40 and even 50 meter high walls, covered with hideous patterns, and put them up on his side! It seems that we are not allowed to ignore this chap, or his land! I sometimes think that he is unwell, but it is such a nuisance to have this kind of childish behaviour so close at hand. Of course we ignore this poor man, and hope he will see how silly he is being, but I wonder if this is a common problem? Obviously he behaves like a 4yr old. Report him for abuse. He can insist all he wants...it's your land. Unfortunately this occurs more then you think, it happened to me twice and I reported them both. I told them and it was over. Mandy C _____________________
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level.
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Pixieplumb Flanagan
Prop. Baby Monkey
Join date: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 268
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04-17-2007 06:54
Thanks Mandy. We may have to report him I suppose, but of course his constructions are on his land, and he may do as he pleases there! It's rather sad to see this happening when we have made such efforts to make our land attractive. I suppose it may also be loneliness and envy on his part, that he doesn't have the skills to make someting nice, and has to find other ways of having an effect on people. I remember a lot of toddlers are like that, lol. Even negative attention is better than none, but I don't have time to be everyone's friend, and I don't find this person even very easy to understand, as he uses somewhat broken English, and can be quite sexist in his views.
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Lostmedia Ares
Drinking tea
Join date: 6 Sep 2006
Posts: 290
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04-17-2007 07:11
Thanks Mandy. We may have to report him I suppose, but of course his constructions are on his land, and he may do as he pleases there! It's rather sad to see this happening when we have made such efforts to make our land attractive. I suppose it may also be loneliness and envy on his part, that he doesn't have the skills to make someting nice, and has to find other ways of having an effect on people. I remember a lot of toddlers are like that, lol. Even negative attention is better than none, but I don't have time to be everyone's friend, and I don't find this person even very easy to understand, as he uses somewhat broken English, and can be quite sexist in his views. Rest assured ..he won't be arond long . I have seen and herd this many many many time's and most of the time ending with the same result ...he will sell up and move along . People like him are not suited to Second Life and it don't take them long to realise that. Easy to say hard to do ... but just try to ignore him , Add him to your mute list and just go about your business as if he was gone . Dont let one bad apple spoil what seems to be a happy little barrle, No point in getting yourselves all stressed out about somone who would only enjoy the fact that your upset . One thing thats ever changing in SL is the surroundings , Give it time and mark my words ..he will be somthing that you look back on in a few months and laugh ..and he will still be a muppet  _____________________
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
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04-17-2007 07:13
This is one of the curses of living on the mainland. Neighbors that are permitted, by the lack of even the slightest bit of Linden-enforced zoning, to grief you by placing all sorts of trash on their own land, in an effort to destroy the value of yours. It does sound like he wants "something for nothing". In this case, access to the water on your parcel, though he has no rights to it. So he's trying to bully you into either giving in or moving out. Such tactics are all too often used to try to force a neighbor to sell cheap and move out. After all, while he is there and making an A$$ of himself so visibly, the resale value of your land will be rather low. Few people would willingly move in next to such a jerk.
Abuse report him, and otherwise ignore him. With luck he'll eventually get tired of the feud. And take heart in the fact that all that junk is also making HIS land less usable! He's hurting himself, to at least some degree, to hurt you. Though he probably actually has his main home elsewhere. In general, the Lindens won't do much about a neighbor like yours, so long as his garbage remains on his land. I am afraid your only realistic alternative to waiting him out is to ditch living on the mainland, and move to a private island community, where the sim owner has zoning covenants that prohibit such childish and selfish behavior, and will enforce those standards by evicting residents like that jerk. _____________________
Sorry, LL won't let me tell you where I sell my textures and where I offer my services as a sim builder. Ask me in-world.
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Mandy Carbenell
Recent Item
Join date: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 847
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04-17-2007 07:58
Thanks Mandy. We may have to report him I suppose, but of course his constructions are on his land, and he may do as he pleases there! It's rather sad to see this happening when we have made such efforts to make our land attractive. I suppose it may also be loneliness and envy on his part, that he doesn't have the skills to make someting nice, and has to find other ways of having an effect on people. I remember a lot of toddlers are like that, lol. Even negative attention is better than none, but I don't have time to be everyone's friend, and I don't find this person even very easy to understand, as he uses somewhat broken English, and can be quite sexist in his views. Typical toddler behaviour like you said lol. Btw...I'd love to see it sometime, the way you describe your lot and the things you did there made me quite curious. Drop me an IM in world and I'll pop over if you'd like that. Mandy C _____________________
Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level.
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Barri Rossini
Registered User
Join date: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 46
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04-17-2007 08:11
My neibors are nice quiet folks, and on my left and behind me is a large forest owned by some furries whom never would need a building, then the road on my front. Its the perfict lot. IM me in world if you would like to see my home.
I hope this never happenes to me again, happened last year on my old char, I got so fed up I abandoned my lot and never turned back. |
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IC Fetid
Registered User
Join date: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 145
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04-17-2007 08:30
By his behavior, he appears to be underage. Abuse Report him as possibly being underage.
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
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04-17-2007 10:35
He insisted that we should allow him 'access to the water', even though this water is actually our land!Eventually we bought a security orb and set it up to permit only ourselves and our friends to enter. When you say that he wants access to the water, what exactly do you mean? Are you saying he wants to actually build on your land? Or does he want to be able to use a sail or power boat and he has to go over your stretch of water to get out to the "ocean"? If it's the former, then of course he has no right whatsoever to build on your property. You're definitely in the right on this. However, if your stretch of water is the only way to get to the greater open water to sail and all he wants is to be able to cross your land in his boat, that's something different. Personally I have a long abiding grudge myself against people who put up no access lines on their land for no apparent reason at all except, it seems, to inconvenience their neighbors. Now, IF, and I do mean IF, all he wants is to have free passage through your water to get to the larger open water areas to sail or powerboat, then I'd have to say you and your friends are the jerks here. _____________________
 It's Official! Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute |
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Susanne Pascale
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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04-17-2007 11:02
Oh yes, Jellin...they are the jerks. THEY bought the land. THEY pay the tier. How AWFUL that they dont just open up their land for the entire population of SL's amusement. Question: If access to water was ALL THAT important, why didn't theneighbor BUY waterfront property and PAY tier on it? Inquiring minds want to know.
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DancesWithRobots Soyer
Registered User
Join date: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 701
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Let's say it's just access. . .
04-17-2007 11:32
Susanne brought up a good point. It IS ther land, and while I personally HATE ban lines, I agree that it IS a parcel owners right to place them.
It's been a while since I looked, but isnt' there a way to charge for access to a parcel? The water part of the prioperty could be sectioned off, a fee charged, (or not) prim entry and build allowed with a short auto return. Just an option. It hasn't happened to me in a while, but when I had neighbors who thought it was OK to ban everyone except for a priveleged few from their property, I'd ban just those few from mine. Petty I know, but it got attention a time or two and showed people how selfish they were being. |
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Sys Slade
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 626
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04-17-2007 11:45
It hasn't happened to me in a while, but when I had neighbors who thought it was OK to ban everyone except for a priveleged few from their property, I'd ban just those few from mine. Petty I know, but it got attention a time or two and showed people how selfish they were being. The big difference there is that you can fly over when you aren't on the access list. When you're specifically on the ban list, you cannot fly over at any height. |
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Sandy Schnook
Official Dorkette
Join date: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 60
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Why does he need access?
04-17-2007 11:59
I have to ask the same question that Jellin does. There have been quite a few threads about waterway access. If he's just trying to sail a boat or pass by, then I understand his reason for being upset. Have you asked him to define what he means by access? My partner and I tried sailing before, only to run into constant restriction lines and gave up in frustration. Also, as for the objects you find, they all sound like vehicles. Due to the current physics of SL, most vehicles can pass into an area before the driver even sees the restriction lines. By then, it's too late. The vehicle is caught and it is difficult to get back. And depending on someone's knowledge about how SL works, most people don't even try, they just leave their stuff where it is.
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
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04-17-2007 12:10
Oh yes, Jellin...they are the jerks. THEY bought the land. THEY pay the tier. How AWFUL that they dont just open up their land for the entire population of SL's amusement. Question: If access to water was ALL THAT important, why didn't theneighbor BUY waterfront property and PAY tier on it? Inquiring minds want to know. Well, to answer your overblown and over-dramatic question, why didn't the neighbor buy the land? Maybe, like quite a lot of folks, he could only afford so much land. And maybe, like a lot of folks, he never dreamed that anyone would blockade what might very obviously be a waterway for a number of people. Now, for clarification for the histrionics, I did say .. well, let me repeat myself : Now, IF, and I do mean IF, all he wants is to have free passage through your water to get to the larger open water areas to sail or powerboat Now, to get back to the specifics of your explosion, who said anything about How AWFUL that they don't just open up their land for the entire population of SL's amusement.? I certainly didn't say anything about that. I did say, and I continue to say, that if part of your land contains the only waterway that connects to the greater open waters (and there are PLENTY of places in SL where you see this kind of property line) then yes, it is rude and jerky to block it and prevent your neighbors from peacefully and quietly sailing by. Why is it rude and jerky to your neighbors to do something like this? Well, that's hard to explain, because if you didn't learn it by the time your were in kindergarten, you'll certainly not be able to understand it now. It has to do with "Being Nice" and "Being a Good Neighbor" and it doesn't even cost you a thing, not one little thing to let sailors sail by on their way to wider waters. Now here's a question for you. What do you call a person who's so selfish that they won't let their neighbors use a small bit of waterway that in no way whatsoever impacts them as landowners? Letting them use this one little bit of land doesn't take anything away, doesn't mean they don't own the land, doesn't take away their prim allotment, doesn't do anything EXCEPT be nice to neighbors. But they still won't do it cause it's "Mine Mine Mine". What do you call that? _____________________
It's Official! Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute |
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
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04-17-2007 12:11
regardless of what they mean by access, is this really an appropriate action to take?
Even if the OP WERE in the wrong (which I don't think) about stopping him from sailing through on the water, is this behaviour warranted? _____________________
*0.0*  Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. It might just be a particle display.  -Mari- |
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
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04-17-2007 12:15
Yay! It's gone back to the "If you don't give me access to your land, you're a selfish jerk" argument!
I knew it would! _____________________
*0.0* Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. It might just be a particle display. -Mari- |
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
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04-17-2007 12:25
Yay! It's gone back to the "If you don't give me access to your land, you're a selfish jerk" argument! I knew it would! OK, now I agree completely the owner of the land has the absolute and perfect right to do what they will, including banning the entire population of SL from said land. I do not dispute this. I do not argue this. However, waterway access has always been a contentious issue. Why? So many waterways are not Linden owned, but sold with parcels. And so many people enjoy waterfront property for the sole reason that they like boating. So Mickey. Since so very many waterways are are so easily blocked by simple ban lines and they are such a rare commodity in so very many sims, yet still so sought after because of the idea of being able to walk from your house to the canal, hop in a boat and sail away is soooooo nice, I ask; Why isn't it a selfish and jerky thing to do to block your neighbors access to a portion of your land? Especially when you, and the land owner, lose nothing by it? _____________________
It's Official! Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute |
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Sweet Primrose
Selectively Vacuous
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 375
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04-17-2007 12:29
I have to say I greatly admire the OP's exceedingly reasonable and generous handling of the affair. I hope her neighbor's conscience kicks in sometime soon, or, failing that, that he may give up on his behavior.
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
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04-17-2007 12:34
I have to say I greatly admire the OP's exceedingly reasonable and generous handling of the affair. I hope her neighbor's conscience kicks in sometime soon, or, failing that, that he may give up on his behavior. All the original poster did is show a very good natural ability to sound exceedingly reasonable and generous in a post. I would like to point out that no where does she truly explain what the neighbor is asking for, or an objective explanation of the events leading up to this point. _____________________
It's Official! Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute |
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tristan Eliot
Say What?!
Join date: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 494
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04-17-2007 12:35
I have sympathy for the OP and this is exactly why I wish you could turn off the rendering of other peoples objects outside of your parcel. It would make mainland living so much more pleasant. Not to mention bump up your frame rate.
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
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04-17-2007 12:36
So Mickey. Since so very many waterways are are so easily blocked by simple ban lines and they are such a rare commodity in so very many sims, yet still so sought after because of the idea of being able to walk from your house to the canal, hop in a boat and sail away is soooooo nice, I ask; Why isn't it a selfish and jerky thing to do to block your neighbors access to a portion of your land? Especially when you, and the land owner, lose nothing by it? Done to death in other threads. Guilt trips and name calling generally mean you don't have a point, other than, "I want to be able to do this and the bad person won't let me". This is the same argument as "Banlines should disappear when the owner's not online" and "LL should force landowners to not be able to put up banlines over water" and all the other ones. There are public waterways, just as there is public land. You can't punish someone for spending money to get a nice plot and wanting to keep it nice, which is ostensibly what's happening in this instant. There is no moral or ethical imperative for land owners to open their land, waterways or no, much as many would like to think there is. _____________________
*0.0* Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. It might just be a particle display. -Mari- |
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Sys Slade
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 626
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04-17-2007 12:59
So all people in boats should be allowed access to any land that contains water and can be used as a route to more water? Never mind that a premium was paid for that waterfront land, it should be open to all in ways that cheaper flat land isn't?
If this was flat land we were talking about, you would be told to get stuffed and use linden roads. If your car is too big to fit in the road, then it's your own problem. What makes it any different because it's water and your boat wont fit in the linden protected channels? If you don't buy the waterfront land (by that I mean land that is really on the waterfront), then you have no rights whatsoever to use it. Denying neighbours the "right" to access your land whenever they want is not being a bad neighbour. Demanding access to your neighbours land, and throwing a tantrum when you don't get it, is. |
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Sweet Primrose
Selectively Vacuous
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 375
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04-17-2007 13:04
"All the original poster did is show a very good natural ability to sound exceedingly reasonable and generous in a post."
You're right. Unlike some other posts in this thread.... |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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04-17-2007 13:22
This is my first comment on all this access based stuff.
Ive lived on the "classsic" waterfront in the older sims on a medium sized beach parcel. The parcel cost quite a bit more than flat land with no waterfront access, it makes no sense I should have had less rights than someone who lived somewhere not on the water. It is not the Landowners fault that Linden Labs didnt design in public water access. Its also not the land owners concern the property doesnt end near the edge of the water. If Linden labs wants people to give access like this then they should change the ban system for everyone. Or else use supply Linden in a more meaningful way and buy up some land adjacent to protected waterways and roadways to guarantee access. As the system is now - People are simply working within their rights. No one should be FORCED to be "considerate" of peoples use of public land by traipsing through their property. We might like them to be such, but forcing them to be so is just wrong. |
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Jellin Pico
Grumpy Oldbie
Join date: 3 Aug 2003
Posts: 1,037
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04-17-2007 13:24
I think it's pretty funny how no one can really answer my question.
What's so bad about being nice to your neighbors? And How does it hurt you to allow your neighbors passage along your water way? The only answers I seem to be getting is; It's my land, I have the RIGHT to block access all I want! Well, I'm certainly not questioning that at all. At no point did I say anything even close to that. At no time did I advocate taking away a landowners right to their land. Just the opposite really, landowners DID pay for their land, and they DO pay tier on it. They have the right to say what goes on on their land and who gets to set foot on it. No question. All I'm asking is; What's so bad about being nice to your neighbors? and How does it hurt you to allow your neighbors passage along your water way? If anyone can answer my questions without going into yet another tirade about land owner rights, I'll be shocked and pleased. _____________________
It's Official! Jellin, you are soooooo FIC! Fabulous, Intelligent and Cute |