Can you be banned from SL?

Okay... you agreed to whatever was in the covenant for the land when you acquired the parcel, and were responsible for perusing it for updates or changes at regular intervals.

Even if you purchased the covenant parcel, but failed to read the covenant, you're still held to the terms and conditions outlined in the covenant.

However, having broken the covenant, for whatever reasons, and whether or not you do meet any obligation or perceived obligation within the covenant, the worst the sim owner can do is ban you from their sims. Linden Lab wouldn't ban you over something like this.

Note that the Lindens can't get involved with the dispute. Section 5.1 of the Terms of Services makes this clear. This doesn't mean contracts are unenforceable within Second Life, simply that it means a RL third-party would have to do so.

Anyone renting land from another player should read and understand the covenant before committing to enter into a rental agreement. It does cost a lot of RL money to run an island, and some estate owners have a harder time finding new tenants than others.

That said, all contracts between players are basically unenforceable; it's up to the players to live up to their obligations. The estate owner in this case, if it's true he was threatening to have to OP banned, sounds a little more desperate than most.

Well, actually, no.... Per the terms of my contract, I can move right now and not have to pay any penalties for doing so. Landlord-tenant law does provide for some penalties with regard to leaving before the contractual period expires in most cases, but the landlord cannot believably make threats like "I'll get you banned from [InsertCityNameHere]" if I do leave. And notice that there was no contractual period in the OP's case.

Since you bring up RL landlord-tenant contracts, you probably also realize that even if there is a penalty for leaving a contract early, recourse is usually limited to something far less drastic than exile (or the threat thereof), right? At worst they could hire a collection agency to recover any money owed and put a mark on someone's credit report, and there are very strict rules about the amount of money that can be charged as a penalty.

Speaking of retards, I don't know why you can't understand a very simple comparison between someone who lies about getting the OP banned from SL and charging exhorbitant amounts and an RL criminal... You want people to have sympathy for the "landlord" because he has bills to pay, but so do RL people who use blackmail to get their income. Just because a person has bills to pay doesn't mean that we need to have sympathy for their methods, does it? I did say to give notice if possible, but I also said to treat the threats of banning as the absolute shite they are.

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I guess I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like some of what the OP is talking about is not in the covenant, but rather was told to him by the landowner when he tried to clarify what the covenant was saying...

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Shorty:

Is there a way you can show us the existing property covenant? I believe it all depends on what you and the landlord agreed on that document.

In regards to the banning issue, none land owners can ban people from SL, we can only ban people from our own properties.

I've been following this thread and I really, really have to ask a question.
Why do people not read the information they are given?
As an Island owner and landlord for mainland areas I could relate stories of horror about failure to follow simple covenants/rules that exist to protect my tenants life-style and my investment of $1650 purchase and $295/month tier fee. That said, I only know a few that would enforce the payment terms harshly if there was a good reason for default, that's life and something most of us understand. However, I'll never tolerate/understand/comprehend not reading the covenant. Who would buy something in RL without understanding what you are buying first? Yes, sometimes people don't understand English but in my experience they are the people who ASK first then decide.

Totaly out of order, if it happened, that the owner made false threats but actions understandable if he has this clause in his covenant. Next time shop around and find somewhere with a covenant that suits you needs.

_Ding

I've never heard of a RL lease that demands payment of a penalty plus additional month's rent if you decide to move at the end of the term. I supposed a landlord could write one, but it's doubtful that any court would enforce it. Even when a tenant breaks a lease in the middle of the term, the court will hold that the landlord has the responsibility to mitigate his damages by attempting to find a new tenant. If the lease is month-to-month, a tenant typically owes the landlord no more than 30 days notice unless there's a contract specifying something different.

Linden Land Sharks?

Sounds like a good company startup...specs and figures...Go!

And that provision (at least in my state) is only enforceable if the landlord can prove that they are making a dedicated effort to obtain a new renter, usually requiring the proof of advertisements and repairs done to the property. Even then, the amount of time for which they can claim damages is limited by statute.



Yup, while you can put anything at all in a contract, enforceability is a completely different issue.


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My only advice would be to ask a Linden or call customer support.

A big part of me believes that Linden Labs likes to "watch" private estate owners more closely and then to take region based owner/admin abuse seriously.

I really dont think Linden Labs would enforce anything said by a covenant, I mean where is the line drawn on just exactly what a covenant can and cant do. A covenant more/less serves the purpose of an obligation regarding terms and conditions of a rental. Honestly I think its something that 'can be' phased out due to its own limitations and/or abuse.


my 2 cents

I get the strong sense that there are two sides to this story...

...nonetheless, there's little that can (or should) be done if someone wants to just leave. Why even bother ban them? They are leaving.

Part of being a good island manager is making sure you aren't exposed to too much risk, so one tenant can't hold you hostage or cause incredible financial damage.

For instance - say you are just getting started, have two tenants already, and get an IM that says: "I want 2 rent the rest of ur island I have moneh can I has it plz?" ...that should set off some alarm bells.

If you fail to adhere to the covenant your private island landlord put up, his only recourse is to ban you from his land. Worst case, he can spread your name around to other landlords suggesting they dont rent to you, or don't allow you on their land. (Note that it doesn't take a blacklist system to do this.)

All that said, SL is a big place, and if you feel the covenant is unfair, I wouldn't adhere to it, regardless of whatever bans may result. There is nothing the landowner can do to affect your account standing with Linden - in fact, if they are harrasing or threatening you, you likely have reasonable grounds to file an abuse report against them.

Good luck!

People really should read contracts (or covenants) more carefully before committing to them, I totally agree. It would certainly save a great many people from the headaches and stress that in the end can be attributed to their own failure to do so.


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I agree.

Always always read and reread and third read covenants.

I've seen covenants with NO MONEY DOWN! Only 4kL a week! omg I don't think so. I try to live well under my means, for those weeks were the Ls are slow to come in. It happens, such is life

I own 4096m, I pay LL $25 a month. I've seen covenants exclaiming double prims! So 2048m = prim count of 4096m all for the low price of $50 a month! Sweet deal...not.

Well, perhaps some cannot use a payment method to LL or don't want to, so yes, renting is viable, but please always read before you buy. If it sounds too good, you are being pushed for a fast response, or it sounds flaky, just say no.

There is plenty of land out there.

Just for the record, the first apartment I ever lived in in RL had exactly this kind of clause. Was especially painful since we moved out in a hurry because we could no longer afford the rent- but ended up losing a lot more money as a result.

I personally feel that adding a third-party (a landlord) to the transaction chain is absurd, however, a landlord can simply add the words "All terms and conditions of this covenant are subject to change without prior notice. No refunds."

Seemingly most apartments in my area carry such clauses. Or used to, I haven't lived in an apartment in over a decade, but that's what I remember. Also in my area, the laws are very well done to protect both the landlord *and* the tenant, as I've had cause to discover. Unlike in SL, RL landlords cannot just evict you without very good legal cause. For instance (in my case), if the landlord decides suddenly halfway through your contract period that they'd rather sell the house outright than rent it, they cannot evict you without giving you time to find new housing. That particular landlord ended up paying me $3,000 in moving expenses and legal fees plus refunding my last month's rent and deposit.

The current situation for renting land in SL leaves a lot to be desired, and it's a pretty risky business for all involved, as Desmond pointed out above.


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They *can* simply add those words, but that doesn't give them free reign to change things arbitrarily. For instance, I *could* put in a clause that if you leave without notice I can eat all of the cheese in your house, to pick just one absurd example. Some things just aren't enforceable, regardless of any parenthetical language or blanket CYA clauses in a contract.

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robby you put too much effort in trying to create a sl/rl parallel. you can take any element of sl into rl and expand it to lunacy if it is taken to logical extremes. citing rl contract law is an example of the inverse. accept that sl and rl are vastly different.

Actually, the sim owner does have free reign to change things arbitrarily as... they own the sim.

Contracts, in and of themselves, within SL are unenforceable, as outlined in the Terms of Service, Section 5.1, which we all agree to upon joining Second Life (whether we read the Terms of Service or not).

Anything else is beyond the scope of what the OP originally defined.

Oh, I know they do have free reign to say whatever they like, and clearly we agree about the enforceability of such clauses

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In many places the standard apartment lease is much more onerous. Commonly, you owe all unpaid rent through to the end of your least term if you leave early, plus a penalty. There are only narrow exceptions to thise written into the standard lease used in Texas (such as military service committments). While the leases allow the apartment to reduce the unpaid rent owed if they relet the apartment, they are not required to relet it.

I rent out to a friend what I pay for a 4096 sqm parcel which is $18 usd and he ends up paying me about 5400L$ ($21 usd) with no purchase price.

Plus my region runs low script times

I'm not expending much effort in drawing the parallels, really... I'm engaging in conversation where others are also talking about the parallels, and I do think it's interesting to note the contrast between SL and RL in some cases. This is one of those cases. There is very little support for enforcing contractual obligations in SL, and very little knowledge on the part of most people in-world attempting to do so, apparently. This is, to me, good fodder for discussion. I think that we will naturally see a great many more such discussions in the future, so perhaps it would be best if you not let it bother you quite so much.

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