Now a German Paedophile Expose in Second Life

I don't think SL would be handled any different than if you hosted a website which involves at least three parties.

(My interpretation of everything, may or may not be accurate )

The site owner has to comply with the laws of where they live, and has to comply with the laws of the country the server is located in and is the only liable party for the content of the site.
The hosting company isn't strictly liable for what happens on its servers (subject to the law of where the servers are), but it has to show it's quick to act on reports of illegal activity and cooperate with any police investigations.
The visitor only needs to comply with their local laws.

If you're a business (or an individual offering similar services) with an international consumer base, then the laws of the visitors apply as well, which is why Google was sued by Germany (or was it the France?) and had to adjust its indexes according to that country's laws for German/French citizens to continue to provide a service there.

With LL opening a satellite office in the UK, things will probably muddle up more since then they will fall under UK and European law the same way as any other company with a physical business presence.

And this explains why the country tag that will be added to the profile.

An underground ageplay group will be able to require age verification, country of origin verification for people who join their group - thus protecting both themselves, and keeping out people from countries where its illegal.

In the USA, its not. There's a court ruling on it.

In Germany it most certainly is, and servicable by jail time. (edit - if the content is sexual - if its just kid avatars in nonsexual situations, then no)

It depends on where you live, and the laws in your country, not what your opinion or mine may be.

*grins* me too...

In germany its illegal for adult avs wearing children's clothing to do sexual activity?

Or an Adult Av and a Child Av (in childrens clothing)

or is the distinction to hazy?

It sounds like even the school girl costume thing on an obvious adult Avatar would be a BAD idea for a german though.

country verification is a big issue for casinos in SL. They WANT to ban people by country.

Personally, I ban myself voluntarily from ageplay content, it makes me physically ill. And I have no worries about LL doing it for me, either.

It might be legal in America, but that's only because of the legal culture in the USA, which gets queasy when dealing with free speech and expression issues.

That unfortunately, is an ethic largely absent from European courts. :/

its a grey area, if the girl can be interpreted as a teen, or age ambiguous.

yeah, its a bad idea.

Any female shape could be seen as a teen to someone looking to prosecute.

Maybe someone should start selling skins with obvious age spots and wrinkles, and hair with grey hairs to keep Euro's safe.

Which I doubt highly. I mean, I live about 30km from the German border, I have many German friends (SL and RL). Such a thing I never heard.

I just checked if some of my German friends were online on MSN to get the futher details on this. But I have a good feeling it not that negative.

Morwen.

It's not the legal culture actually. It's a little document called The Costitution.
But yeah, free speech is an evil thing.... But I guess self righteouness isn't absent from the European Courts. So what's the point here? The mentioned activity is NOT illegal in America, I am in America, then the case should be moot. And the same should apply to Gambling. SL residents who live where the activity is legal should be free to do so.
again I ask, WHOSE laws do we live by?

I haven't had pixel sex and not really looking for it in SL.

It may be legal or not for an adult av to have sex with a child av but I wonder why that turns them on?

well its more a case of - is it worth the risk?

Im sure that the intent of the law wasnt to stop obvious adult images - but - avatar age might be in the eye of the beholder.

With actual photos they have actual Photo subject identity information as a control. If someones RL identity is over 18 then pronographic images of them isnt Child Porn - even if the subject looks 16.

----
BTW - before I get flamed

Im not supporting Ageplay or teen porn (legal or illegal) - im just commenting on the German rules.

i think you'd be disturbed by various child pornography laws on this side of the pond Colette.

for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornographyI remember a famous news presenter (Julia Somerville) being arreseted at one point for taking a couple of pictures of her two/three year old naked child. it might still have happened if the kid was in a swimming costume. it's also perfectly legal for two sixteen/seventeen year olds to get naked and have sex, but any photos/video recorded during the er.. session would be considered child pornography. as for the 'pseudo-photographs of children'..it makes you wonder whether those photographic child avatar skins for sale in stores are considered illegal in the UK. i saw some being advertised once on these forums once and it made me nervous. i closed my browser and cleared my cache. the law in the UK is more of an ass than most.

the country you live in are the rules you go by, obviously.

The Constitution has to do with legal culture. If you are following Constitutional law, and legal culture tends to be conservative by nature, then you tend to have the opinion that virtual children has no victim, therefore no crime. You may not like the content, I sure don't - but free expression issues take precedent. What do you do with baby Eros in classical paintings, etc etc.

European countries have few to no precedents like the US clearly has to go by. It's harder to create law than it is to go by what has come before.

Anyway, welcome to globalisation. SL is on the cutting edge right now of a lot of untested/barely tested issues in this area, right now.

The pr0n industry in Germany decided it was best to just move. Beate Uhse, a German company, moved its entire online division to the Netherlands just to get away from German issues with adult content and child access.

wow - yeah


hmm one thing

What makes a Avatar in Second Life look 25? or 20? or 16?

I mean they look young - especially the women. While all the women I know look adult, if you were to say "she looks 16" how could it be argued? The Avatar doesnt have a birtch certificate. A 16 year old's skin isnt substantially different than a 20 year old's. A 16 year old is capable of having a full figure. A 20 year old capable of having a slim one.

Agreed. Sexual exploitation of children is one the lowest possible crimes for sure. but in the case here it seems a perception is being criminalized as much as anything else. And in theory ANY behavior that doesn't fit someone's narrow definitions could be the next target. it is a very complex issue.

/me nods in agreement

my partner is German, and he's pretty negative.

If you are referring here to Freedom of Speech in the US against the way we have it here in Europe... we are happy to have it this way, hench that is why we have it...

Art.1 of the Dutch Constitution states:

"All persons who are residing in the Netherlands, will be treated equally in equal circumstances. Discrimination on grounds of creed, whether political or religious, race, sex or whatever other reasons is not permitted."

.........

The Dutch penal code prohibits discriminatory expressions.

In the Netherlands the choice has been made to limit the freedom of expression, which consists of the fact that this freedom exists only for so long as it does not interfere with the rights of others not to be discriminated .

A lot more about this subject on: http://www.meldpunt.nl/indexe.php?link=mdifaqe#Artikel%201%20van%20de%20grondwet
(Site of the Dutch Bureau that handles discrimination).

But that is another discusion..... but if you made sound so negative, this should be clarified.

Morwen.

German investigation: kiddie porn in SL: reason for age verification?

Is this the reason for the quick move on ll's part to age verify?

German investigative report on kiddie porn in SL:


Quote:


Second Life not save for Kids

Posted on Mon, 7 May 2007 09:00:00 CDT | by Luigi Lugmayr

A German investigative TV show uncovered child pornography on Second Life. Additionally some members of Second Life abuse childlike play figures against money sexually.

The TV report witnessed the sale of child pornography on in the virtual world by a German Second Life player. An investigation is under way.
Linden Labs says that they will find out who is behind the user and also will introduce Age verification to protect children from entering adult areas in Second Life.

The TV report will air tonight on German Television.
More details on the SWR site (German, Google Translation). Via Heise.

--------------
The above, verbatim, found at http://www.i4u.com/article8812.html#

coco

Wow - still have to say - Protect what Children?

They arent supposed to be here.

Would be interesting to see how this Tv reporter wintnessed this alleged act. how many other reporters are lurking about waiting to make you their next scoop? Never mind being worried that the sexy girl is really a guy, she may really be Mike Wallace.

An article just went up on The Register about the German investigation. One quote in particular I have to take issue with...



Nothing short? I beg to differ. If none of the participants is a minor, and no actual sex act is taking place, regardless of what's being acted out it's far far short of child pornography. Now according to the article genuine child pornography is also being traded by some people and in that case they should be held accountable to the laws in their country of origin, but avatars grinding pixels is not sex. An adult using a child avatar is not a child. Personally I think that people with such predilictions having an outlet of expression that doesn't actually endanger any children is a good thing. It might keep them from going out and preying on actual children.

The Register article is here.

Mike Wallace is really bad at Cyborz

and thet Luffa spounge thing O'Reilly was into .. was just weird.

And lets not even talk about Marv Albert.

I'd rather hear about your Yiffing....