Now a German Paedophile Expose in Second Life

Following the story that in Holland, the Dutch Prosecutor's Office is considering legal action against child porn in SL (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/21/dutch_demand_ban_on_virtual_child_porn/) and (http://buziaulane.blogspot.com/2007/02/second-life-flight-from-first-life.html), and the blog concerning Rape Games (http://sparklematrix.wordpress.com/2007/03/22/second-life-rape-games-update/), the sexual activity of some players in SL has again come under the spotlight with a recent German news broadcast, on ARD, again focussing on child porn (http://portal.gmx.net/de/themen/digitale-welt/internet/web-trends/3995580-Staatsanwalt-ermittelt-wegen-Sex-mit-virtuellen-Kindern,cc=000007148100039955801RIaPy.html).

In Germany it is not only illegal to engage in paedophilia, but also to depict it in any way. Stories, pictures, cartoons etc depicting any of this is illegal. Circulating now in German porn shops are movies made inside SL showing sex between a child avi and an adult avi.

In Europe, the stories concerning SL are starting to become entrenched in people's minds that SL is a haven for paedophiles.

There is talk of another programme coming up, on BBC's Panorama, also depicting SL in this way. It is getting to the stage where, in Europe, who would admit to being in SL?

How many of these kind of news stories will it take before rl businesses and corporations desert SL in droves?

Is it time that all sexual activity in SL, which engages in role playing which is illegal in RL, such as Age Play (paedophilia), Rape Play (rape, abduction, sexual assault), Gorean Lifestyles (sexual slavery), even Furry Sex (bestiality) should be outlawed completely by SL, for the greater good of the majority of its residents?

How many more negative news stories can SL survive? How long before these sickoes spoil it for the rest of us?

The story of the Dutch professor was publish months ago and deeply discused here... what this person wanted, never happened (ha... again he runs into a big wall. This person is only happy when he sees his name in the news).

Why bring it now up again?

Morwen.

I agree with you on certain points, however it's impossible for LL to monitor every action ppl make. As for Gorean's...that's a Master/slave agreement between 2 adults (assuming they are) like BDSM in RL, which is also not illegal. Age play can be outlawed as far as I'm concerned. 2 Furry's going at it doesn't concern me and Rape play is also done in RL and is not illegal because it's play.

Just my 2 cents.

Mandy C

Actually ROLEPLAYING these acts, except ageplay , is NOT illegal as it IS ROLEPLAY.

Ageplay involving sexual acts is banned in SL, I make the qualifier of sexual acts because there are those who roleplay kids.. just to be kids with no sexual hangups and this is perfectly fine.

But the other things you mention, if roleplayed, are not ACTUALLY what they are depticted, either in SL or RL as they are CONCENTUAL.

That's the keyword, concentual, people are acting NOT actually doing, in RL they have safe words to stop the scene at any point ( or if it's a lifestyler they can split up no different to a marriage ). Therefore it is NOT illegal.

Furry sex is never, to my knowledge, seen as beastiality. There really isn't a RL comparison but the closest you could come is one or both DRESSING UP as an animal. Bit bizarre but not illegal.

I had to laugh at that - but of course the sexual ageplay is a very serious issue. Which should be self-regulated within SL itself, by the residents - as well as through other enforced measures. I have never seen it myself but if I ever do come across this I will not hesitate to file an abuse report.

Other than that I agree with the consentual thing what ppl want to do in SL is up to them really.

I'm sorry, but you are factually inaccurate. The statements you have made about how classifying what you do as "ROLEPLAY therefore it's OK" or "consensual (my correction)" and therefore it's OK, are not founded in the history of prosecutions in a number of countries. In the UK, for example, the Spanner Trust exists to fight for the rights of consenting adults to leave lasting marks on one another as a part of sex-play: in fact, such behaviour is illegal in the UK at present. The history of the Spanner case and the way that consent was explored by the judgement on the accused is extremely relevant here.

Bottom line is, if the authorities don't like what you are doing, they will come up with a way to describe it so you are busted. Another UK precedent is the law relating to people appearing in material - including "pseudophotographs" - which seeks to portray them as under-age persons. Note those two phrases - "seeks to portray" means in your words, ROLEPLAY. And "pseudophotograph" means, any form of artwork, whether moving or still, photoshopped or hand-drawn, avatar or videotape.

So these rules are already drawn up and ready to use, and there are people on SL who imagine themselves immune from them. From my own personal experience of law enforcement in the sexual field (outside ageplay, admittedly) it's perfectly possible to go for a couple or three years thinking you are just fine, before you get raided and thrown in jail: it takes that long for law enforcement to fully "notice" you.

So; get ready. Company's coming.

Perhaps it IS time to freelance the servers. You Log onto a world in your country,bound by your laws, and if you are from nother country, you are free to visit that area, you must abide by it's laws. I can't think of any other way. save that, Sl is fast on it's way to becoming the sanitized corporate Blahworld, that RL prety much is.

UK is a bad example as they have laws to punish yourself for self inflicted mutilations ( piercings/implants )

As for the legality of any role played scenario i don't think LL should take in account the details of every laws of every countries they aren't legally bound with.

Especially that some of them even if stating themselves as modern republics are going a bit over the top regarding individual liberties.

California laws aren't the best thing in the world but it is less worse than where i live.

So you mean that when in deep lust I bite my partner in her shoulder, causing a small wound (and that happened) that would considered illegal in the UK?
Ermm... I stay on this side of the water between the UK and here .

Morwen.

So in short are you defending the age-players or the furries? What about the rape players? (ie. Midian city, Goreans etc).

Killing someone in RL is illegal, should simulating that in SL not also be banned?

LL only went as far as to ban public "advertising" of (sexual) ageplay. Neither form was banned, and both forms have the additional restriction that they can not assert any non-legal age even for their character (ie "I'm well over 18 but I ageplay a non-sexual 8 year old" is AR'able).

If you accept the premise that acting out a virtual fantasy (between consenting adults) can cause one or both participants to actually commit it in real life then it applies to everything else as well.

The adult industry thrives on "teen"/"barely legal" labels and couples do practice ageplay in RL as well. Noone has any issue with that, but if virtual ageplay is different then your comparisons with RL for the other fantasies are no longer valid.

RL ageplay doesn't encourage child abuse but virtual ageplay might, so while a "forced sex" fantasy in RL doesn't encourage rape virtual "forced sex" might so it need banning as well, and so on.

The bottom line is not whether anyone thinks it should or should not be illegal, but whether it actually is, which might be part of why LL is moving towards identity verification.
Gambling is illegal in the US, virtual sexual ageplay is illegal in Germany, virtual "rapeplay" irks Belgian officials, and so on.

The future might very well be that country verification is next, and that casinos will have the legal burden of auto-banning US citizens (which would mean banning anyone who doesn't let LL - through Aristotle - publicly display their country) and anything to do with ageplay would ban German citizens, "rapeplay" locations would ban Belgians and so on.

Can I claim to be god if I come back to play the game one other day after being killed?

Certainly. Your world, your imagination.

If they are consenting adults, yes. Perhaps a legitimate concern is if child avatars are involved, I will concede. But if we are talking about 2 Adult avatars, with one dressed maybe as a schoolgirl, or the Old Storm Trooper/ Farmgirl Scenario, what they do in private is no one's business.

I second that!

Mandy C

Mandy, Brenda, you are missing the point.

It is not whether you think that what people do is no-ones business but their own, it is what the authorities and laws in various countries say.

If you are American then there is no likelihood of the Dutch or German police coming knocking on your door (but bear in mind the European businessmen who have set up legal internet gambling in Europe, and been arrested when they visited the US).

The point here is the perception of SL in the minds of people who continue to read news stories about these activities from a press whose voice is heard, while yours is not. LL recently stated that only 35% of members are from the US.

So, if it gets to the stage where members in Europe are too embarassed to admit that they are members of what the press are calling "a paedophile's haven", where will that lead SL?

In another thread a member is complaining that his bank is refusing payments on his Mastercard, as it is coupled with illegal sexual activity, and his wife and daughter are asking him if he is a pervert.

Would you be happy to be tarred (rightly or wrongly) with the paedophile brush?

Are you proposing that? Or using that as an excuse to let all activity go in SL?

The question is... do you allow people to force that mark on you?

I will not. I will stand up and make clear what my points of view are. As I always have done.

And oh yes, it very much your own business what you do. Specially on the matter of sexuallity. There is no Dutch law that forbids me to dress as a schoolgirl and have sex with my partner (I like other things tho). There is no Dutch that forbids me to be gay... even not when a certain US president thinks we gay people have less right (gay marriage) or some pope in Italy calls us evil and sick.
I am a business woman myself and if some country has problem with my lifesyle, it says a lot about the "government" of that country.

Edit: It is nice to have a boss who supports his employees really. He dumped once a rather big customer because this customer didn't want to do business with "gays". He even considered to take legal steps against this customer (discrimination on sexual preference).

Morwen.

I understand the point. But for arguments sake whose legal standards are supposed to be adhered to? In the US, gambling is illegal, in Germany certain sexual activities are illegal, in China everything is probably illegal...whoe rules do we follow. And how are these incidents being brought to the press? Are they sending Spies in world, is the Government setting up sting operations, bringing in entrapment issues. Or are residents blowing the whistle on other residents? (The most frightening thing to me). Perhaps whole new laws need to be written for Second life, and it's followers, seeing it transcends national boundaries.

@ Brenda: "Great minds....."


I think, since LL is a US based company, US laws apply here...but that's just me. But I do think as things progress the way they do now, the slogan "Your World Your Imagination" needs to be changed...

Mandy C

How about "Our World, Your Government's Imagination"?

Are you all loosing it...?

You can think what you like but when a newbie starts SL it not because he/she heard that SL is cool to play in, no he/she only knows it a sex game!!
Why else 90% of the males that start this game walk around asking any girl they encounter
hi my name is bond james bond wanna fuck? (ok not the name james bond but you get the picture)
Then you have the peeps that are lonely,depressed or what ever the problem is and they have the freedom to act out in SL what the really want in live.
And then you have the creative types that help those people act it out if they lack the skills
to script or build stuff.
Don't blame certain people we are all part of the problem, SL is build and advertised as the game with no limits.

Off course there are limits I see in SL the same thing happening as with the internet, when that went "public" there where no limits!!!

I do not condone to ageplay gorian or other crap that going around SL but i will be the last to say omg the SL image is ruined...

I know there are good people here in the SL world and people that don't engage in stuff like that, like myself I have a profound dislike of some things that are done in SL.

Look at place like hard alley how easy that can be found and look at there traffic do a search on sex or anything that has to do with it look at the traffic they make

We all had part in it some how some way, every action has a reaction!!

Wolvie

ROFL!

Mandy C

People are always going to have misconceptions about anything. I've had a person refer to SL as "Cult". If someone is going to make a judgement on some sensationalized media story without looking into it themselves, that's something I can't worry about. As for the individual who says his family thinks he is a pervert, if he is spending any significant amount of time in world, and his family has no knowledge whatsoever of what he is doing, perhaps he has issues he needs to take care of with them.