Definition of Theft?

Quite right, Yumi.

I wanted to mention too, that I performed a search the other day in Search All, as I was looking for a specific item. I chose from the sites presented on the first page and went to look at the item. It wasn't what I had wanted. So I opened Search All, put in exactly the same search term - and got back a completely different set of results. I remember being surprised, but didn't have time to think about it. This thread just brought it back to me and if someone is in-world and has time to kill, I'd like them to experiment and see if the same thing happens to you.

Order:

1. Open Search All and put in search term (copying the term so it will be exact the next time).

2. Explore results.

3. Completely close search window.

4. Repeat 1., pasting in the search term.

Are the results the same, or different?

same for me...did a search for "blankets" in all search. closed it out. did a search with no word so there would be no results. then searched again for "blankets". exact same results

You may have to visit a result. The full Google certainly "learns" from which links you've followed to inform future searches (for example, if I'm logged into Google and search for "community standards", I get the SL community standards as the top link, because it remember that I've followed SL related links in the past). I don't know if the GSA search does this too but it might be something to bear in mind.

Ah right so you want search based on number of sales. Why didn't you just say that in the first place.

Actually thinking about it for a minute I think you could make drastic improvements to search simply by adding more search parameters and creating subpages for each individual search listed item.

To milk the "chandelier" example a bit further. If you're searching for that you don't truly care about the parcel it's sold on, you care about the item itself and the rest of the store is really largely irrelevant.

In this specific case I could search for "chandelier" and the result would be a list of stores that sell one just like you get now, only you'd get say a maximum of 5 - horizontally placed - thumbnails (I really hate that SLex returns all results from everyone) where the highlighted keyword text is now.

Clicking on a store result would show all items fitting that keyword with a thumbnail preview.

Clicking on a thumbnail would show the subpage for that item with the name, description, tags, price, display image and a direct tp over to where that item is in the store (no more landing points please).

Taking added metadata into account I could search for a "chandelier" that has more than 3 prims but less than 30 (gets rid of the textured ones) and costs less than say L$300 and get a preview straight from search without having to tp anywhere until I made up my mind of the ones I want to go look at.

It doesn't solve the ranking problem obviously, but if you don't have to tp over to every single result and wander through the store looking for it but already get a flat image preview then it's much, much less of a pain to look over a larger number of results.

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It wouldn't cover scripted vendors, but search doesn't cover those now anyway so that's not much of a difference there.

Knowing which texture to display could be accomplished with a new prim property or simply by convention (say whichever texture is applied to face 0 if there isn't a texture inside the prim named "Whatever".

Personally I think keywords should be matched against tags, much like blog posts (and landmarks will be taggable under the new landmark system) rather than the name / description of a prim.

Finally, I don't think representing item search results along with new filters (like # prims, for sale price, etc) is beyond what GSA is capable of so all in all it doesn't seem like it would take an insurmountable amount of time for LL to get done.

Every customer is important to me. What's not important to me is someone who makes out that they can be so influential in sending people to my store that they can have a significant effect on my sales - especially when they would like me to change my ways for that priviledge. I don't think that Mickey realises how successful my store is.

All customers combine together to make a successful business, and each one is as important as each of the others - like the 100 cents in one dollar. But losing one, or gaining one, makes little difference to the whole. There's nothing arrogant about it. That's just the way it is.

I wasn't here when pose balls were invented and I don't know why they came to be called that, but those are balls, and that's not what we're talking about. I promise you - poses are static (i.e. a pose), and animations are animated. There's no need to quibble about it - that's just the way it is.

My store's page was always relevant for what is on it, and you know that. All I have done is make it more relevant.

Kitty. If you searched for "chandeliers" and you found chandeliers, you got what you searched for. You got relevant results. It doesn't matter whether or not anyone would buy them - you got what you searched for. The results were very relevant to your search.

I'm not dense at all about search, Kitty, but some people seem to be. You don't ask any search engine to "give me a list of stores that are most likely to have a kind of chandelier I want" unless you tell it what you want, and your example of searching for "chandeliers" is *not* specific enough. You got exactly what you asked for. The search engine did very well for you.

See my previous paragraph. I'll add that a search engine doesn't know you and it doesn't know what you want. The only thing it knows is what you type into the search box. I don't know why you're arguing the point, because you know all this. It's common sense.

The OP was attempting to camoflauge the thread to keep Phil out.

This is likely because there is more than one index. I've seen 3 different sets of results simultaneously, and each set could be repeated over and over and it always returned the same results.

This comes close to my ideal idea for search - "Matrix search" (ie, "we need chandeliers, lots of chandeliers". In this case, your avatar appears in a blank area, and then the client loads each parcel that was found in search, arranging them in the "virtual sim" in a semi-randomised pattern. You can fly around the resulting meta-sim in the normal way - you encounter a "sim crossing" when between crossing the parcels, and you don't see avs on any parcels other than the one you're in. A button is provided which teleports you to the real sim where the parcel you're on is in, but you are connected to that sim all the time you are on the parcel, and can interact with (and buy) things on that parcel at that time.

Yeah, I'm just playing around. Kinda. I guess I'm trying to plant the seed of an idea that maybe search as we've come to understand it is just not the best or only way to think about finding stuff in-world.

There's a lot more RL industry money being invested these days on systems that handle "identity" and "reputation" and "relationships" than on, say, 3D graphics (or even web search ). I haven't thought a lot about how to leverage any of that to make it easier to find the "right" stuff, but I daresay the problem is more core to SL's future than having the shiniest clouds or the most perfectly pixel-lit prim bits.

Pardon???

Mickey. If a business is successful, it's successful. There's nothing arrogant about it. It's just the way it is. Look. I started my business in October last year. It was a tiny store when it started, but by January I was selling well over a million L$ of stuff every month. Do you really think that a few people coming from your recommendations is going to make much of a difference? You frowned on me for being "confident" enough to think I could manage without you. Do you still frown on my confidence? I have a very successful store, Mickey. There's nothing arrogant about it.

You seem to think that you are capable of noticeably improving the sales of a store, and I'm sure you can for little stores - briefly - but your affect can't do it for those that are already very successful. Anything you are able to do would be just a drop in the ocean to them. I'm sorry, but it's true.

Don't you think it's time to get back to the topic of *your* thread, and forget about trying to persuade us how influential you can be?

Dang Phil....sounds like you're stressing out about this, quite a bit....settle down a tad.....Let's say I have ZERO influence on anyone, to make you happy.....these are just MY numbers, lindens already spent (I had prepared them earlier today, in case you got riled up again).

And since I graciously plugged you....just consider this a plug for a dozen other people who have furniture and items to "die for." Fair is Fair.

Current Home I will sell, is unfinished, because I opened up a store in the middle of it, so it has been open for "Lookers" for some time. These are people who are getting ready to buy a lot, plant a house, and furnish a home to the max.

Can you say "Furnish a Home?" Only one will buy this set up - the others will take the ideas, and go do their own, and buy their own stuff, which I encourage. (I gave you all those numbers on all those people in the other post, Phil) But never mind all that....you said these people don't count, and you won't miss them from your store. Fine.

13 rooms. Each will be furnished to the max. 3500 prims to use....hmmmm that's a lot of low prim furniture, I think.

I'm going to be really blatantly tacky, and tell you what I spent on furniture, Phil. I'm going to have to do estimates, because I'm not going back through my notes and running back to each store to get a price.

Del Sol - 2500 to 3000
Ramos - 3000
Pendulum - 1500
Plush Pod - 1000
Lover's Playground - 8000
Neva Naughty - 1000
Reflect Your Dreams - 2000
Blip/Ace - 1850
Penny's Pets - 2000
Depoz - 1000
Pillow Talk - 2000
Bits and Bobs - 1200
Odd and Ends from 10 other designers - 3000

Approximately 30,000

Now get this Phil, I used furniture from my own store, for half the rooms, but don't always.....so for some homes, just take the above figure and double it. Make it 60,000.

3 more rooms to do......add another 6000

Make it 66,000.

Add some custom decorating jobs that came from showing the above house. 30,000 in Furniture only. We're close to 100k now.....pretty good drop in the bucket. If you're only selling a million a month, well that was 10% of your sales....pretty good drop in the bucket. And there were time periods when I was doing this several times a week - so say 200k a week times 4 weeks....that would be 80% of your sales.....and remember I have ZERO Influence.

Now, when this one sells - I will go do all of the above again, as I have for 30 or 40 times, not sure, lost track. The home isn't too shabby, either, Phil....drop by some time....you might get some display ideas....I noticed you line all your furniture up in rows.

That was really tacky and shameless....but hey, when in Rome........

None of the above stores are "little stores", as you described them, Phil.

None of the above stores told me to get lost, Phil, as you did......and I've chatted with a few of those store owners, and it was quite the contrary......so Drop It.......I have no desire whatsoever to shop in your store again....you are safe. And don't fret any longer about me not recommending your store to the shoppers who come through. You are safe on that, as well.

Like you said....none of it matters to you.....

Mckey. Nobody at this end is getting riled up. We're having a simple discussion about how useful or not useful you are to stores. You think you help stores, and I say you probably can help little ones in a noticeable way, but you can't help already successful ones in any noticeable way at all. Your list shows that - small amounts to big stores - drops in the ocean. I'm sorry, but you're just not influencial to any significant degree. You can't even influence me to get me riled up

Let's look at your list. The largest amount you spent in a single store is 8000, and that amount is approximately 3 times larger than any of the others, and 8 times larger than some. If you spent that 8000 in my store in a single day, it wouldn't be noticed, because it wouldn't put the sales for that day up to a noticeable degree. If my sales were the same every day, then of course an extra 8000 would be noticeable, but they are not, and an extra 8000 wouldn't be noticed.

And how often do you spend that much? When you build a new house; i.e. once in a while. Do you see my point?

The one time we talked when you were a customer, you were treated well as a customer. You weren't told to get lost. When you'd completed the house with a couple of pieces of my purple furniture in it, you suggested I go and look at it, which I did. You weren't told to get lost. When you started this thread, calling me a thief - not by name, but you called me a thief - you dirtied your ticket and, as far as I'm concerned, you can get lost. Do you imagine that BnB would be worried if you didn't spend the 1200 there once in a while? What do you think Craig would say to you if you called him a thief, or if you suggest he change something significant to suit your ideals, because you are such a big customer - you spend 1200 at his place once in a while?

Then you posted your over-inflated idea of your value to businesses (which you are still doing), suggesting that I must have a lot of confidence to think I can turn my back on you and do well. What do you expect from me? Do you think I should realise the folly of rejecting you, and remove my bots so that I can have your custom and my business will do well because of it? So you spent 66,000L on the house. So what? I sometimes sell that amount in my store in a single day, and I'm sure that those on your list sell far more than I do. I consider such days to be 'very good' (not the norm) so, if you spent that 66,000L in my store in a single day, then it would be noticed, and I would give you your due. But how much of it would you spend in my store? A few hundred at the most. Even if it were a few thousand, do you really think that would make a difference to me? Do you think I would be doing myself a favour by removing my bots to have your few thousand once in a while? I don't have the confidence because I think I can make it without your help. I have it because I *am* making it without your help, as are all of the shops you listed

Mickey. As far as custom is concerned, you are a small shopper. The total you spend is large but it's only once in a while, and it's divided amongst many shops, so each of them only gets a very small amount from you. For instance, your largest amount (8000) wouldn't be noticed by Lovers Playgound where it was spent. None of the places you listed will feel the pinch if you stop supporting them. They won't even notice. You should stop thinking of yourself as some some of benefactor, because you are not. You are not the big spending customer, Mickey, and your recommendations influence is very small. If you want to be a benefactor, buy from, and recommend, small shops where it will be noticed. Better still, just write your notecards for the sole benefit of your group members, which is an excellent thing to do, and stop this over-inflated idea of how beneficial you are to shops.

Going back to one of your earlier posts for a moment - you said you'll be sending out your notecard to your 400 group members, so 400 people will see you your recommendations, and thousands of people will see it if they pass copies to their friends. Do you really think that 400 group members are going to read your notecard with great interest? And do you really think that they are going to think so highly of it that they give copies to their friends so that thousands of people will read it with great interest? Do you see your over-inflated thinking, Mickey?

As for my display layout, you are right - it could be much better. But it works, so I'm content with it.

I just skimmed through that post of yours, Phil.....you've missed a lot of points, such as how often I spend....and twisted quite a few things.....so not worth addressing.

You seem to be obsessed with this. Our Business Styles are exact opposites....so I don't care if you have bots or not....I will never set foot in your store again.

You just insulted my group members. They are treasures to me, and have built my business. I talk to them, and I know them. They are half to three quarters of my business every week. They are my friends. Yes, I have an influence with them....but most importantly, they have an influence toward me, and give me advice and suggestions, and support my business.

I believe that you insulted the stores that I shop at, too....by saying that I am insignificant to them....I've run into most of those store owners....and that was not their attitude toward me.....nor any of their customers at all....in fact they made me feel quite significant. Not because of any particular dollar figure.....but simply because I'm a drop in the bucket.

If you're as successful as you think you are, and have the sales that you continually brag about here.......why the heck do you have to use BOTS? If you don't need my business or any of my contacts business...then why do you need BOTS? If you're so Succesful?

People use BOTS because they can not make it based on the quality of their own creations, their business skills and marketing skills....and people skills. There is no other explanation.

Correction: I have about 150 group members. Yes, they read my notecards. They were very generous a few nights ago, in responding to a question about "how" they shop. I had one-on-one chats with several, and they were very excited to hear about a notecard system, that I could hand to them, rather than relying on searches. And yes...the group members I chat with every day do have consideration and respect toward me, just as I have for them. It is mutual.

So you are saying that if anyone from this forum comes to your store today, and spends 8000...you will not notice.

I will notice if someone comes to my store and spends 8000 today. I will notice if they spend 25.

Anyone is welcome to come into my store today, or any day, and spend 25L . You WILL be noticed.

Wow Phil. Just Wow. I'm sorry to disagree with you, but the first and only word that comes to mind after reading this alone IS arrogance.

Just wow.

Mickey. I didn't miss any point about how often you spend - you didn't make such a point. I don't belive that you spend very often when making a furnished house though, and that is based on the number of people you said looked through one before it sold - 400.

I haven't insulted your group members at all. I asked you if you really think they'll read your notecards with great interest, and I also asked you if you really think they are so interested in them that they'll pass them to their friends who will also read them with great interest.

I didn't insult any of the stores you shop at either. I said that the ones you listed are big enough that your purchases won't impact them. I also said that I'm sure they sell far more than me. I think that's the opposite of insulting them. Also, when you ran into me (in IMs), as a store owner, you were treated just like the others treated you - with respect as a customer. My customers are special to me, and if any of them want any sort of help or chat, they get it. Example: just yesterday, someone wanted a rug with a particular texture, so I made it for her. Not only did I make it for her, but I also gave it to her free of charge - and I've no idea whether or not she'd ever bought anything in my store. So you see, people really are important to me.

The people who are not important to me are those who wrongly call me a thief, and those who think that I need them to have a successful business. You qualify on both counts.

I'm not as successful as I *think* I am - I'm as successful as I actually am, and the reason I am successful is partly because I use bots. That's the reason for them. They are part of the whole. I can be successful without them but, as I've said several times before in this forum, it would be silly to turn off a part of my sales generation. From a couple of brief tests, I've estimated that I'd lose around 20% of my sales without the bots. The reasons that I can be successful without them is because I rank very highly in the All search, and I get a lot of word of mouth customers too, plus my products are of such quality that they generate word of mouth custom, and even excellent comments from competitors such as JoJo. What was it she said? Something like "Phil makes some of the absolute best item in his field". So you see, product quality has nothing to do with the use of bots. Bots are used to get people to see the quality, and my bots are used to get *extra* people to see the quality.

So it's 150 group members who will receive the notecard, and several of them are very excited about the notecard system. And yet that number was inflated to "thousands" when you were pointing out many people might actually read your notecard. What can I say?

That's right.

Is it important to people to be noticed?

If a name i recognise goes into the store, and I'm logged in, then I recognise (notice) the person, and I'll usually say "hi". They don't need to spend for me to notice. In fact it wouldn't help because I have the blue notifications turned off and I wouldn't know that they'd spent anything. Those notifications get in the way too much.

You didn't read that whole explanation, or possibly, you did not comprehend it. If you're not used to doing mass marketing, directed toward target groups....you wouldn't understand. My group members will pass them on.....they will be handed out to other business owners to hand to their group members....I also have other avenues of marketing, targeted marketing....in which a notecard will be added, and it could very easily be thousands. I think that the number I used is safely considerably less.

Was that a lecture on Inflated Numbers? from YOU, Phil?

There's nothing to disagree with, MoxZ. If you don't believe it, say so, but it's not something that can be disagreed with.

If I didn't understand it, it's because of what you wrote. You wrote that you'll be sending the notecard out to your group members (you probably wrote 150, but later the number 400 was in my mind), and you added that they'll pass it to their friends, making a possible readership of thousands. I call that inflated numbers. I also call it imaginary numbers.

If you imagine that I've inflated the numbers concerning my store, you are very much mistaken. But if it helps, please feel free to imagine it.

Mickey. You like to think of yourself as being quite influencial to shops. You think you help them. I disagree with you, because I am certain that your influence doesn't help any of the stores you listed to any noticeable extent. I think you have an inflated idea of your value. That's all there is to it.