camping, pathetic or productive?

With gambling gone, that will eliminate a majority of the camping anyway. Camping chairs and gambling machines go hand-in-hand.

I said I'd keep quiet, but oh well. :/

The moral objection SL forum members (I say forum members because I see nowhere as much hatred of campers in-world.) seem to have is that they feel L$ is only for people who contribute, either through a SL job or through real cash. Otherwise you are a cheat in their eyes, and are not welcome.
"Why don't you just build something/script something/work at a store?" I just don't have any interest in doing any of those things. Plus I don't want to work in a game. If I wanted to work I'd do that in real life. "Why don't you just buy your L$ with real money?" I just don't like SL that much to spend real money on it. There are other games I'd rather spend money on.

The only reason I signed up for SL is because I could sight see for free. I'm not really interested in participating. That probably makes me a bad guy. :/ By the way, I know what you are about to say. "But you can still sight see for free." Yeah but it would be nice to be able to buy the awesome avatars I'd find. "Well too bad you bum." You say. I know "Your selfish because you are not willing to work in SL or pay money to buy that avatar".

In the end this debate doesn't really matter. The anti-camping people have already won. Traffic will be removed. (wouldn't be surprised if traffic doesn't make it to the end of the year.) The reason to set up camping spots will be gone and camping will dry up. And those of us playing for free will leave. And you guys will say good riddance.
I do wish that old accounts could pick L$ from money trees. Then I could be paid for exploring. And exploring is what I originally wanted to do in SL anyway.

PS: As for the search results, almost any system based on popularity can be gamed. I guess the only system I can think of that wouldn't be easily gamed is a system that counted the number of L$ transactions on a property. But I guess that would favor some properties over others, mainly stores.

PSS: And as for sim lag/monopolizing, the problem is that the camping spot owner is putting out way more camping spots than the sim can handle. I still think a better sim access system would be in order, where land owners get priority access to the sim, and visitors (ie campers) would be auto booted from the sim to make room for the land owner. Last time I suggested this it was dismissed out of hand without any consideration. I guess because I'm filthy stinking cheating camper. :/

I guess I'll slink back into the shadows now.

Actually I'd say there are even better ways to explore, for free, in SL. I was absolutely burned out on crafting yesterday and dying for something to do- so I started hopping between my "usual" shopping haunts... but I realized I really didn't want to spend any more money (already down lower on my balance than I'd planned this week). So I waffled a bit and poked around in the corners for freebies I hadn't seen before and was coming up with nothing when I caught a lucky chair with my letter up. So I sat, and got my gift and was feeling much more cheerful when I just searched lucky chair. I went skipping around the world from there, enjoying the different sims I ran into and occasionally getting a nice little gift. (I think I came out with 4 or 5 after several hours) I found 3 new shops that I want to go back to when I have lindens and got the most amazing hover/skimmer craft I've ever had the pleasure of riding that made sim hopping even *more* fun.

Just pick a direction and go. You can make a very nice avatar out of all of the designer freebies out there, and if shopping + going new places if your thing- there are hundreds of places out there with freebies to entice new customers- some really nice. As a new shop owner it was my *first* priority- putting out a freebie, great for bringing in random traffic and for giving people the chance to see your work before they buy.

There's a lot out there that you can get without a linden, but it really does take work. Sadly without camping I can't think of any quick/easy ways to make a few lindens for the almost free stuff =( Which is almost a tragedy.

Amend that to "some SL forum members". Even here many of us could care less about camping. But there is a group of the "creative" types who have the elitist attitude you describe.

So you don't want to work for money, and you don't want to put money into the game.

Why do you think you are entitled to get any money at all? Does someone "owe" you something when you will give NOTHING in return? Why?

Yup! If work was a good thing, the rich would keep it all for themselves.
- Old joke!

But, but, but.... Camping IS 'work'. In order to camp you have to give up some freedom of action. You are trading (some, no matter how little) of your time and resources for reward - which is 'work'.

i dont think people really owe anyone anything at all. if somebody wants to camp to earn $ to buy things, whats the harm in that? they redistribute $ around the grid, just like anyone else.
i do hate 'bot' campers, or farm raised campers whos sole mission is to deposit earnings into a farmers account for cashing out. that sucks imo, but i cannot see how a reasonable person can group a single camping person with a legion of camperbots.

Well I'd imagine campers do keep the L$ floating around the economy. I'd see little point to camping if you didn't then go and spend the L$ you'd received.

I won't comment either way about whether people are entitled or not, but I can tell you _why_ they think that:

1) If you aren't {capable of / interested in} creating content, SL is just a social MMORPG;
2) Most social MMORPGs do give you things for free (some of them you can play entirely for free) so why shouldn't SL?

Of course, having been here a few years and created content, _I_ know the answer to (2), but many new folks don't, or when they find it out they don't like it..

But how much, really? Most camping chairs pay something on the order of L$3/10 minutes at best, and many pay a lot less. So you spend hours camping to "earn" L$30 or L$50 maybe.

I did try camping some when I was a newbie, partly because I didn't understand the minuses and partly because having 30 or 40 L$ in balance seemed like enough. But after the first couple weeks, when I realized I was spending a lot of time being idle for a very small return, I gave it up for good.

Actually this view is what's lazy.

Campers get money which they often then spend in-world ( I say 'often' but it's probably more than likely ) - good for the economy. Certainly before the banning of gambling, the amount paid out to campers every day was HUGE.

PLUS campers are a captive audience to advertise to (sure many just switch on anti-idle - but they DO get to see well-placed notices or adverts)

There's nothing wrong with making use of them to boost your "places' listing. If your place genuinely IS rubbish - it'll fail anyway! If your place is BRILLIANT then it'd be a shame for hardly anyone to ever see it unless you have large amounts to spend on advertising!

Camping is a fairly despicable waste of sim resources, and the return on time invested for a single avatar is pathetically deceptive. Unless you park a string of alts on camping chairs, you're simply not earning enough to really *do* anything in SL.

Those that continue to think that SL is merely some sort of "game" will doubtless always fail to understand why camping is viewed so dimly by many. I've always though it was a risk for LL to offer accounts to people for free...once you give someone something free, they always seem to want more and more and more...for nothing.

I hate to break this to you, but SL is a game to a whole lot of people, and an obsession to some others. Many (maybe most) of the several thousand on line at any one moment have no desire to view the platform as some sort of grand social experiment. They are in world to foo around, one way or another.

some nice person made it long time before, so i use it and made little modifications on

check this http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=289757

http://forums.secondlife.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'm SHOCKED to learn this. http://forums.secondlife.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Which is why they'll never really understand why camping is a waste of resources (theirs, and the sim's). *shrugs* My point is that shuffling, self-centered ignorance also has consequences for others, as well. But if their idea of *fun* is sitting in a camping chair like some burned out meth tweaker...that seems a little odd for someone looking for a way to goof-around.

My objection on Mainland camping is it like a parasitic worm to all the sims around it and the people in them. It only cares and benefits for itself while making the place it lives suffer.


Parasitic worms feed off of there human host, making the human sick and ill while they benefit, that is exactly what casino campers and casinos in general do.

'Cause then they spend the money on whatever floats their boat, and don't have to spend any RL$. They really don't give a sh*t about sim resources.

I think most of us that post on the forums have a different view of the whole SL thing than a lot of the people online at any given time. We seem to take it more (sometimes too much more) seriously than the masses.

I wonder if we can get any more of the "elitists" in here to tell us what is and what isn't a proper use of a person's time. Face it, the campers have just as much right to be in SL and using SL resources as any of the so called "creative" types. I have had friends who camped because they did not want to take my charity any longer. They camped till they could find a job that did not involve sex. While they were camping, they would IM friends, sort inventory, hell go do their RL wash. You don't like camping fine, don't do it. Don't give business to property owners who support it, but lay off this bullshit about how campers aren't worthy to share SL with the rest of us.

Campers would actually delay the time it takes for those L$ to be freshly converted to US$ again. L$ that just wanders around from avie to avie without ever making it to the LindeX doesn't contribute much.

Even if it did, camping and the spending of NPIs in general is such a tiny percentage of overall spending that it's doesn't have any effect on the economy at all. It just happens to affect a lot of people, but there's no economic benefit/risk to either having or killing camping.

I'll use this one again: you go to a restaurant and state: "frankly, your food isn't worth paying for, maybe I'll consider washing my dishes to pay for it, but really you should give it me because I'm entitled to free food".

If there is any elitism, it's actually on the side of the campers. If you want L$, you buy them, or you work for them, but for some inexplicable reason campers despise both and expect L$ to drop from the sky, just for them. (And before anyone comes up with a "I camp and I don't...." story, take a look at the average camper, you're an exception, not the rule.)

As far as the *right* to be in SL goes, only paid accounts might argue that they have a *right* to that. Unverifieds can hardly lay claim to any such undeniable *right*. But you're correct, campers do feel they have a irrevocable *right* to be in SL and are rightly entitled to a disproportionate amount of resources.

I absolutely disagree. This circulating currency that never exits the Lindex is what allows people to create and exchange items with each other.


I'm sorry but I disagree with that too. Non-premium accounts probably make up a hefty majority of not only the teachers, artists, scripters, and other "producers", as the students and audiences that applaud their efforts and give them a reason to do what they do. And some of the most exciting things happening in Second Life right now, are non-commercial activities.

This is akin to saying only property owners who pay land taxes have the right to live in a city. People add greatly to society without being actual property owners, and the people who pay the largest amount in taxes, are not always the greatest contributors to those societies.

If you are a premium account owner who "pays their taxes" but does little to contribute to the quality of life in SL, or who does little to help and encourage its youngest residents, you cannot pat yourself on the back and claim some worthier status than a teacher, builder, scripter or public performer who happens to be on a freebie account.

Economics is only one small aspect of an overall society. A critical aspect, but far far from the only aspect.

Not taking sides here Kitty, but please back this statement up statistically for me. I would like to know where I can find such information.

It's akin to sitting down in a deli or anywhere else commercial and private without ordering anything. They may or may not allow you to sit there indefinitely, but if you're ushered out because you're taking the seat of an actual paying customer you're out of luck and certainly don't claim any "right" to your seat.

This thread actually .

Post 25 (/327/30/198637/1.html#post1592662) - Argued that you can cut all the spending from the lowest two categories and it just doesn't add to anything worthwhile. It's a large amount of people, but they just don't spend enough to make a difference.

The problem is that, when you use that as an analogy to SL, you have to remember that there's another restaurant next door that _is_ giving away free food.

Linden Labs is the owner of this hypothetical cafe, and thus it is *their* right to invite in, or order out, anyone they choose, and to decide WHO belongs there.

Not the right of the guy in the fat suit with a diamond watch upset because some college student was also allowed entrance.

Again, people contribute to a society in many ways beyond mere economics.

Linden Labs understands this I think, better than you do. This is a society they are building, not just some huge enclosed shopping mall.




I think that's sometimes called the 90/10 rule: 10 percent of the people might spend 90 percent of the money. Happens in all societies and not just this one.

It doesn't necessarily follow that if you boot out 90 percent of the populace that spends only 10 percent of the ingame consumer market, you'll have a better Second Life.

In this case the restaurant owner invited the person in and other diners are sharing their food with the person voluntarily. The campers aren't getting something for nothing, they have to invest time in order to earn the money.