camping, pathetic or productive?

actually i think I'm starting to agree with the pro-camping side now, I never saw camping as a way to learn about SL, but it makes sence that it is a positive thing for a newbie to do while they are deciding wether or not to give LL their money. I think i'm changing my vote (in my head anyway) to beneficial, sure it wastes resources and it sucks to have a sim full of campers but over all i think it's beneficial if Brash is an example.

Yes, hmm, waiting 45 days to get my first $L250 wouldn't have done me much good. By then, I'll either be convinced to stay, and buying my own easily, or.. have decided SL was not for me and have moved on.

I am unclear why so many people seem to think people who have just joined SL are REALLY going to be creating/designing/building in their first few days? Let alone finding stores that are hiring employees (which I never saw once, in all my tramping about the SL world).

I am also a little curious, how much camping chairs add to lag. Most of the places I was in, I rarely saw more than 3-4 other people.

The parcel I am currently renting, on the mainland, is not far from a sandbox which worried me at first so I spent a few days "hanging out" n the area to see how bad the lag was, before commiting, there are usually about 4-8 people in the sandbox and the lag there seems no worse than when I was in a sim that usually had 1-2 active people in it.

Are camping chairs with 1-5 users really as bad as instead having that same business owner have a skybox full of 8-20 zombie bot alt accounts up in the air, that they don't have to pay out anything for? Perhaps a limit on number of camping slots makes more sense? Again, I usually did not see that many people in the same area as me, and am wondering if the furor over camping chairs and their impact, is really meaningful, or just a symbol to take out other pent-up frustrations (about SL, about the world and other people in general, etc).

Because it makes them feel better.

To be creating things?

Yes, I MUCH agree, which is why I spend the vast bulk of my ingame time attending classes and workshops. (I actually had someone buy a $L5 water fountain I made, which made me feel wonderful ^_^)

Being able to eventually CREATE things, is about 95% of the reason I am here at all.

However, as good as it makes people feel to be making stuff, they really are VERY unlikely to be selling anything they made in their first days, maybe even their first weeks.

I find learning to be tough, and this is after quite a bit of experience modding for the Morrowind/Oblivion community, I cannot think how much tougher for people who have never done anything even remotely like this before. Where there is a will to learn, there will be a way -- but that takes time. Time I am happily investing, but it is still going to be a lot of time invested in learning this.

I figure I will be very happy if I am actually REGULARLY making and selling items after my first 3-6 months in world.

No, just to say it.

Oops ok I understand now ^_^

Some people have been in SL for months and long decided it's something they enjoy, but still choose not to spend a pennie and instead expect money to just drop from the sky into their lap. They've been around long enough to build up a social network of people to get offers, or could have picked up the skills needed for building if they had wanted to, so those suggestions apply to them.

For newbies there is winning events, sploders, etc. There are plenty of places with a healthy ratio of old vs new residents and a good atmosphere where as long as you're social and not obviously hungry for the prize money people will vote for you, regardless of what freebie you're wearing.

Camping generally attracts those with a certain mindset who feel they're entitled to the world for free. You obviously don't fit into that category, but you're the exception and not the rule. On Live Help campers were by far the most abusive category of people and if I'd gotten L$1 every time a camper said they would sue because they didn't get their single digit amount L$ paid out I wouldn't have had to buy L$ for a very long time .

I still have no idea what sploders are, and my only experience with "winning events" came when a very nice young gal in the same apartment complex I first rented in, asked me to drop by a stripclub and vote for her in a bikini contest (I was happy to repay a favor, as she had tried to help me get my first radio to work). Apparently she had a regular job there as a pole dancer, I didn't ask but she was a very sweet kid ^_^ so I was happy to vote and she won $L350. A bikini contest is not something I would choose myself, but hey whatever. I didn't see many opportunities of that type anyway, and had zero interest in the "fill out surveys to win" things where you basically give your email out to spammers.

Frankly, the majority of places/events/opportunities I eventually DID discover, came from hunting down camping chairs and money trees =)

Perhaps if more "camping chairs" switched over to the "floor mopping, window washing" type cosmetic overlay, (same thing, just looks better, and for the new player also FEELS better), it would somehow be less of a inflammatory issue for those offended that someone is "getting something for nothing"? And I think for newcomers would be more fun as well.

The atmospheric campers are a nicetouch , I wouldn't want 20 of them in the same place but they at least add something visually. Sploders are basically a gambling device. You put in some money the thing explodes and everyone that puts in gets something back. It could be you original investment many times over, or it could be just 5L. I keep track of my Sploder play and I am ahead almost 1000L.

Hi there - i dont post very often (too frightened of getting shot down in flames! lol) but i felt moved to in this instance.
Anyway, i own a store and i do pay campers to be there. I dont like the camping system but i feel that to have a successful business i need to have it.

Let me just add that i design my stock, work hard on successful advertising and believe (or hope!) that my stock is of good quality and appeal.

However i am convinced that there is a direct correlation between traffic and sales. Without the campers my sales were low but with them the shop is a successful business.

I feel that i have to 'game' the system to be successful - but i also dont believe that we have the right system to sort search results. I would obviously rather be listed in regards to my merits as a designer.

Unfortunately there is so much out there - good and bad - that quite often businesses get lost in the mix - using campers helps my business be more noticeable.

I am curious however as to what the new system should be for the search - i am pretty sure that any system would have people gaming it?

(ok - im done - please dont shoot me

Sploders are generally something that looks like a stick of dynamite (although there is a variation that looks like a big pig). People pay an amount into it and then it starts counting down until it (ex)plodes at which point it randomly divides the whole pot under the people who entered.

If you're in a crowd of newbies who only put in the bare minimum then you're never really going to end up ahead, but if you're in a decent mixed crowd there's usually someone who will pay in (far) more than the minimum, giving you a very decent chance to end with more than you started and it's just fun too .

The best one would be where you get a good portion of the minimum amount back (for instance L$100 to enter, with L$50 guaranteed back) so you never loose too much, and one that doesn't keep a percentage for the owner (not really sure how common that is anymore these days).

(Edited to add that in general it's good etiquette that if you win big, you put a decent portion of that back in the sploder again and not just enter with the minimum amount again)

Ah, well, if it is a gambling device then A) I wouldn't have had money to gamble with much anyway and B) I'd figure it was a pretty poor way for me to raise money. I tend to avoid devices that promise me lots of money if I give them money first...

These are basically similar to camping chairs? They are to encourage traffic and thus help the sponsoring business? But they .. er, somehow, create LESS lag? Or just have a different moral/ethical feel to them for you?

For me, these all basically sound like the same thing, whether it is a sploder, a bikini contest, or a park bench. Just different flavors of the same thing, to meet individual tastes...

A thing to remember about sploders, most also have a house take.

Of course, why would a club owner use them if it wasn't profit generating?

I guess it depends on where it is, and whether it's set to keep a portion of the money put in for the owner.

It still is gambling up to a point, but it's also very fun and friendly. There is no promise of a payout really and whether you win anything decent or not mostly depends on someone else being nice enough to put in far more than they'd ever expect to get back. The person who puts in the most is generally almost guaranteed to loose which is where the friendly aspect comes in.

It was pretty rare to run into one set like that for me when I still went club-hopping when I was new . Most were just out for fun and to engage everyone. In most cases it was the club owner putting in the most money so having it around was actually a net loss for the club owner.

What do you think camping is? It is a form of a job. They are paying people to spend time in their place of business, ect.... Just because you don't agree with it does not make it wrong. Just because it is a very unskilled ocupation, does not mean that it isn't a form of work. Yes it is informal and to many a complete joke, but the camper is providing a service to the person running the camping site in exchange for money. Like it or not, that is a job.

Well, friendly is always good ^_^ That's durn nice of them to do that, just for me.

I think I'd still prefer washing windows and mopping floors, if I had an option. Or even dancing on a silly dancepad. Low pay but steady and predictable. I don't have any moral/ethical problems with gambling, it just never struck me as all that .. sensible. But fun is fun, yes? So yes, sploders sound like a fun way to make money. And actually I found chasing money trees et al, to be a rather fun way to learn about the SL world. I had to learn to use my SEARCH function, to use my MAP, learn about travel, and especially to learn about camera positioning. But at a pace and by a method that I chose, myself. With a little green linden dollar as my reward (sometimes less, sometimes more), and a business that generated traffic from it.

Now, if I had a cardboard sandwich sign to wear, saying "Shop at Miss Kittys!" while I strode up and down the sidewalk -- would this somehow make my early first-week camping jobs "feel" better to those who find them offensive?

I think somehow we are talking about people's moral values here, and surface appearances more than function. Half of the "events" and gimmicks that businesses seem to sponsor, to drum up traffic, strike me as basically camping chairs in sheep's clothing. IS lag the issue? Or moral values?

In Linden Lab's Official Guide to Second Life, camping is presented as a legitimate job, in the chapter on jobs. I don't expect camping to be going away anytime soon.

Not everyone can spend hundreds of dollars a month.
Truthfully its service that campers provide to create traffic for many places within current system for extreme low reward. The average pay is pennies literally.
Half of places you may be there for hours and they don't even pay you after you been there drumming up traffic.
I camp so when I can't spend another dime because I have invested hundreds of dollars in the game and on land I can pay for few uploads or photos of my friends.
There is no other alternative often for me.
No one else is going to give me job or hire me for something I can do. I am artist and I can't even sell the Cezanne reproductions that I hand drew and colorized for hours.
In eight months with few commisioned items and paintings I have pay have made 2000L.
I don't want the stress or expense of spending more to find work in virtual world that is suppose to be fun escape.
I understand how people don't like camping because of traffic problems it causes shutting down there access to sim but I had friend who had same problem with casinos and she got the lindens to remove there 40 camping chairs. So can those who are affected if there are problems. Just AR the place, have friends who do that or hunt down a Linden.
In fact these days there are fewer and few places to get jobs and average pay is 10L unless you go to places like hippie pay and sign up and give out personal information,etc.
Imagine what this would mean if the only people who could purchase things were based on small stipend or if they could spend hundreds. I don't even buy clothes or products because after the land and tier I can't spend a dime. I am sorry I am not going to become homeless in real life to buy Lindens.
Truthfully I wish that with all that we spend that there was place Lindens set a side small even 1 percent of their monthly earnings for place for people to go and make few hundred lindens a week.

I think most regular SL residents -- except for those running very profitable businesses -- probably find the amount of RL cash they spend in SL goes gradually up each month. And, the people who DO run a profitable business, need those people addicted to buying vehicles, clothes, houses, etc for their avatars. I certainly have found myself gradually ... gradually .. opening my purse strings a bit more now. Especially as I become more comfortable with the SL universe, and less dubious that it is all a big invention created just to skim money from my bank account ^_^

Well, of course it *IS* that too, but as long as they make the experience a pleasure for me as well, then it is fine for others to profit off my time in SL, if they can. Every penny I have spent so far, has been well worth it for me.

Camping chairs -- or "real" jobs, as a salesgal or a window washer or heck whatever -- are a nice low-pressure, low risk way for me to acclimate to SL without thinking "yeah, this is ALL just a big scam to get me to pay big money to play dress-up dolls!"

The bottom line -- do I have FUN? Am I enjoying the experience? If yes, then fine. If no, then I would rather be able to dip my toe in, via some low risk means that means no RL cash up front, before I grab my towel and dive in.

Lately I've been tipping teachers who do a great job in the free education classes, and starting to buy things that really appeal to me and have a decent price. I rented a bigger plot of land, so I could have a bigger house, and start filling it up with more THINGS. My generosity increases, as my feeling of SECURITY in the SL world increases. And the best way to get someone to give you money, is to first make them feel like they aren't being scammed. Free accounts and money trees gave me a chance to .. well, "lower my guard" so to speak, as far as putting RL money into the SL economy.

My bet is, I am not alone in reacting that way.

As long as you are enjoying it, and aren't going out of the boundaries set by the various rule and regulation , how you ue SL is only your concern. No one's use of the program is more valid than yours.

Brenda, as long as you have been here, you should know that builders and "artists" are the only ones who have any true claim to SL. Everyone that is here to make friends, make money, have sex, sky dive, scuba dive, etc........... are only trespassers and despoilers of the pure dream that was once SL.

True, yet I tend to stay away from the places that have more then 5 camping chairs. The lag there is staggering as is it in places containing those annoying shouting lucky chairs, It may be fun to some and that's fine with me but I stay away.

Mandy C

Shush, maybe we can lull them into complacency, and then we can take over.

Wow, that's a bold set of statements. Whew!

As I would love to be one of the "true claimers" of Second Life, I do not believe that we artists can survive in a void. Ok, so maybe we can, because we're so damn creative! I'm kidding.

I suppose if SL was filled with only creative builders and artists, we could all walk around patting each other on the back, and stroking each others egos...but really what's nice is to have all eyes, regardless of class or demographic, admire the work, piece, or creation.

Fascinating idea Chris...really. Without us, there is no them. And without them, there is no us.

Is is WE, and always will be.