Have other people found love on SL? How did that turn out in RL?

I was reading the thread about how real SL can be for people. I think the most basic idea behind that concept is that the world and the platform are virtual but that the people behind the avatars are real, with real emotions, real attitude and real words, expressed in real-time. That there are not physical bounderies for the heart and the mind.

And that's how I found love on SL. Some people call me insane, immature, or even psychotic, to attach so much emotional value to something that can be fake as hell. Hell yeah, the guy who takes me on romantic outings in SL, could just be an old 50 year-old fat bald fowl-mouthing German, but that we'll see when it gets to that. But I was beginning to wonder whether I am really that naive? Am I flipping? Losing the sense of boundery between SL and RL? IS there in fact a boundary? Because for me SL just flawlessly floats over into my RL.

Yesterday, I spoke to one of my friends in SL, who's experiencing the same. She met her man in SL, fell in love and are now planning to meet in RL. She's experiencing the same push-back from her environment, but to us, it seems like one of the purest ways to really get to know each other, provided of course, you are both honest and open. Not hindered by looks, social status or other external factors, you can find two spirits really connect.

Are other people living this romantic dream? What are their experiences?

Hello Feline and welcome.
I would say in all honesty, you're walking a minefield. A lot of 'relationships' in SL absolutely hinge on honesty and laying a couple of ground rules.

On the one hand you have the meeting of minds where you agree that it's your avatars and not your physical selves in the relationship, hence keeping a certain detachment to preserve the fantasy.

On the other hand, if you are hoping that one day you might meet for real and have a real future, absolute honesty is vital.
At what point you decide to leap from the first to the second can be a huge make-or-break and you can run a big chance of ruining everything. Big is an understatement and a lot of people have a traumatic reaction to 'finding things out'. Many can't handle it and run from SL screaming.

Best by far if a real relationship is what you're after is absolute honesty from Day 1.

Personally, I came into SL with a huge advantage. I'd met the love of my life earlier in a text only forum would you believe? I met a few other RL friends through this as with text only, the true self came through clearer without the glitzy, sexy-looking avatars of SL.
My RL/SL fiancee has summed SL up extremely well in one word ... seductive

SL can be the bringer of much joy but beware, I've witnessed it bringing much pain.

Some 7 years ago, I was beta testing a programme (VR platform) for Adobe.. I met and made a friend there. At the time she was married although deeply on the rocks. 2 years later she found herself in the UK from the USA and we met. After a wirlwind romance, we got married and now have a 3 year old son.
The relationship delevolped from friendship based upon common elements of our lives. We have been married in each VR programme we have played ever since, and still maintain our friendship found within a VR environment, along with shared love in RL.
A VR platform, is just another way or reaching out to find friends from a broader spectrum. Some develop into more serious commitments and some remain at a single level, much like RL. I personally believe that the reason so many Internet relationships fail, is mainly due to cultural differences that may not be self evident during the 'getting to know you' phase, let alone the more basic elements such as face to face contact.
The use of webcams and microphones/headphones go someway to bridge the gap, but cannot compete with the actual presence. Smell is one of the basic instincts that we use to choose a partner and plays a very important part of the 'selection' process, that is overlooked.

Irrespective of anyone elses thoughts, you should always go with what is in your head and heart. If it fails, it is not always because it was a 'internet relationship' is just because it's a medium used to potentially explore a wider range of people and customs than ever before. The same can happen in RL, but with a smaller catchment area. My only thoughts to you, is that, the real danger is developing the relationship soley based on a VR game, with its limited ability to give the full spectrum of elements in which to make sound judgment. If you are looking for love, treat the internet as a world wide application form, subsequent steps should be considered after RL encounters.

You're still new. It's very common for newer residents to lose the plot. But you'll learn!.

and yes, I've done it myself when I was new. I found myself befriending "girls" who could easily have turned out to be a sweaty hairy guy!. Ewww!

Eventually, over time, you become more guarded and learn to not take people too seriously until you've got to know the person behind the avatar. But what's even more important is to make sure that they know the real person behind your avatar!.

I think it can be difficult to resist taking compliments seriously in SL. We all want to be liked and we all want to be the person our SL friends imagine us to be. But the longer you delay in opening up and showing your friends the real you, the harder it becomes. Very rarely can you compete with person your friends imagine you to be.

So be real!

Having said all that, most SL residents have no intentions of being themselves while in SL. They're just here to role play being a goldfish or whatever. So being real doesn't matter to them.

well said.

get a grip feline. how can you fall inlove with an avator. i bet you both havnt even seen pics of each other lol

Well, that's where you're wrong. We HAVE exchanged photos. And i'm not in love with an avatar - that would be silly! - because I know the avatar does not look the same as the real person (and so does he know about me). I'm in love with the person who speaks to me in IM, throught the AV. By the things he asks, says and does. The choices he makes in SL, the help he offers me, the way he responds and reacts to the things I do and say. And so does he. I know my avatar's character - albeit not looking like me - carries my personality, because I behave in RL much like my avatar does. I can only hope the same goes for him, but, like I said, that, I will find out when the moment comes.

I was just wanting to share experiences with people who have gone through the same, and am curious about views of others. So I thank you for sharing yours with us, Stylee Streeter, but would appreciate it if you would not be too prejudiced or prejudgmental.

Making the bridge between sl and rl is indeed problematic. But if you are truly connected, and believe that you are two kindred spirits, and you both believe that you have been honest with one another, might I suggest a considered way forward, that I know has worked for a couple of sl friends of mine, and saved another from a mistake.

The began with emails, then with attachments, pics, etc.

They then spoke to each other on Skype, it is amazing how your percetions can change when you hear an avi speak for the first time. They then went to Skype video, and could see each other in real time, not when the photo was taken, which could be someone else, or at a time way back.

Finally, after communicating, hearing, and seeing each other, then you much better placed to make that rl decision.

Good luck, whatever route you choose

After 10 years chatting online,

Ive observed the way online dating works is like this:

There will always be people for whom its worked out for - many will say go with your heart.

There will always be people for whom it didnt - they will tell you to be careful.

There will always be those who decide they need to be judgmental - they will tell you that your rommance is stupid and the person you care about is lying to you.

*****************
Does it work out for some people? - Sure. Sometimes online only and sometimes it goes to real life.

Does it fail for some people? Of course thats how relationships go. Most fail eventually.

Do people lie in relationships? Yes, people lie. They lie during RL only relationships too.

******************

Good luck with your relationship. Be careful but dont be paranoid.

Sounds like you've cracked it Feline and avoided the pitfalls I was explaining.
Go for it gal, good luck

It's no crazier than hooking up in a bar or using a personal ad.

Which is not to say it isn't crazy. It's just not crazier than those things.

I would dispute that and actually say its half and half. Half of us here, our avatar IS a virutal representation of our rl selves, without roleplaying. Sure sometimes even i'll put on a squirrel av cause its funny, but I'm still being my silly real self.

Each to their own. It's just a case of being careful and really getting to know someone, being wise, just like in rl. But please don't paint this picture that most people in sl is being completely fake playing a pretend role/character. sl has the full range, its one of the things that makes sl so interesting

Collette has it right. It can work wildly well, or it can crash and burn spectacularly, and in that regard it's like any other way to meet people ever invented.

I don't know anybody who has had a real nightmare experience, or who has gone to meet their online love and never been heard from again. When it doesn't work, it's usually more along the lines of learning that the chemistry you have in text isn't there in person, and then you hug and say you're sorry it didn't work out, and go back to your life.

On the other hand, I am one who met someone online (long before SL) and had it work very well in RL (and still is.)

So be honest, be cautious and recognize it might not go beyond that first meeting. It could be very good, and you won't know which way it could go unless you try. I think Vi laid out a pretty good plan for working toward that point.

Those of us who are internet veterans have more of a propensity to look at Second Life as a huge social roleplaying game. That's because we started out on MUDs (true games which were played with "characters"- assume personae) and went to MUSHes (text conduits for roleplaying games) and then maybe fell into other variants (like the furry MUCK, which were not games, but worlds built for socializion between persons who were assuming fantastic personae). The fact that your "character" was not a representation of you, but a completely fictional persona of your creation, was an assumed and expected part of the game. If fact, people who went OOC too much were shunned. (OOC - out of character- talking about your real self and the real world.)

People who are newer to using the internet for socialization do not bring in the same assumptions about the virtual world. They are more likely to expect and assume that people are trying to re-create themselves online to interact as themselves online. If two people get together for an online romance, one with the roleplaying expectation, and one with the realism expectation, that's where real problems are going to happen.

Normal Online cuation would apply -

Dont give out your RL personal details just becuase its someone your dating online - make sure you can trust that person with the information first.

I do know women who have been pressured into giving their personal details who later found out their online love was deciding on making a surprise visit.

This is never good. LOL.

But given that care in mind, Id agree, people are people - so it wont vastly differ from someone you met offline.

The main concern isnt how you meet them in that reguard - in my opinion the real life concern comes in when you consider why this person wants a real life long distance relationship.

If those reasons and you reasons for wanting a RL long distance relationship gel, then at least it should have as much chance as any other long distance relationship that starts out that way.

Well that and they havent had enough failures to be jaded yet. Theres some lessons people need to learn for themselves.

Like me, I learned to stop giving out my phone number and entertaining the idea of RL visits back in the 1998 when chat rooms were still "new" (I know was stuff earlier)

To a lot of people new to SL this is their version of those chat rooms - they are still learning what they want out of online socialization.

>this kind of explains the failed RL marriages blamed on SL, etc. People were saying the same thing about Chat rooms in the 90's.

SL is like any RL meeting place. You could go on a vacation to a foreign country, or just to your local tavern, and meet a stranger who seems perfect for you. Maybe they are, or maybe they are telling you a pack of lies. The only way to know is to take your time, get to know them, don't rush...

SL is unlike any RL environment in that it is possible to mask one's physical reality completely. In SL, a 50 year old bald, married man can, quite realisticly, appear to be a single, hip, 20 year old girl. How well they pull it off may rely entirely on their acting ability. On-line meeting places like SL, MySpace, text forums... they require an extra degree of caution. Is the photo they sent you what they look like now, or 20 years ago? Is it their sister or some other relative's picture, and not them at all? Really, the only way to know is to do something like a real-time voice and web cam connection, or to meet in person. And then you are still at the level of the RL meeting place scene - They might say they are single, when they are really married, etc...

Some people will find true love on SL, certainly. With millions of Players worldwide, there have to be some soul-mate matches out there waiting to hapen.

Most, I think, will find themselves dissappointed if they rush to meet their on-line love. I make it a practice never, ever, to date my on-line friends. I'm happily married in RL, and make no secret of that. For me, on-line play is just shared fiction for the enjoyment of the Players. But I have socially met in RL some of the people I have first met on-line, meeting them at furry conventions and the like. Inevitably, the real person is very different than my mental image of them. Sometimes they turned out to be really nice people. Sometimes they were down right creepy.

I have also seen at least one real life marriage destroyed by someone's SL activities. A case where a man dumped his RL wife (also an SL player), broke up a family with kids, and had his SL Mistress move in with him. I'm sure he and his new love interest feel thay have "found their true love" in SL. But at a price I certainly would never willingly pay.

So my advice is, be cautious. Be careful, and for Gods sake don't rush into anything! Maybe it will work for you. I hope it does. But there is a very large and real risk factor there to deal with, as well.

I'll add to this that it, unless you are an internet stalker (or know one or twenty), you would be greatly surprised at how little real information someone needs to locate you geographically for that surprise visit.

At the risk of no one ever talking to me again, after about fifteen minutes of chatting with anyone, I could get enough information to have about a 50% of figuring out a specific place to find them (home, work, or, the easiest, school).

Fortunately, I'm not a stalker. The pay isn't good enough.

True

I beleive with just a RL last name you could easily find them if you knew approximate age and state they live with those name tracker databases.

Unless its a very common last name,



Still - to some people who have been given the address and name by the object of their obsession , they consider it an invitation.


PS--- lol id be in friends whove been stalked catagory of learning this

My best advice would be not to refuse to disclose personal identifying information. My best advice would be just to have a lie prepared and answer it.

It doesn't have to be a huge lie. You live in the next nearest city. Your age is +5 or -5 of real. You graduated from the college you would have gone to if you didn't go to the one you actually went to. You have three kids instead of two. Keep it on a notecard so you don't get it wrong.

In my moral worldview, I think this is an acceptable thing to do even if you want to have actual friendships on SL as yourself. These are the kind of details that only matter to someone who might be trying to find you without your consent. They don't change who you are as a person, and don't change the experiences you might share with someone.

True love won't end when you finally reveal to the person you trust that you live in Houston and not Dallas.

In fact, true love won't end until the one you love meets you and discovers that you weigh about 25 lbs. more than the person thought, and that extra weight is distributed poorly.

With all due respect Feline, I think you already know the answer for yourself.

You will hear many stories of both sadness and hope - there is the full spectrum out there.

But which will apply to your situation? Only you can answer that.

In a virtual world, in text, even in bed with a longtime love - we all project a bit of our own desires and impressions upon the other person. Sometimes, it's more fantasy than reality, and some things we never truly realise.


Ironically, that same ridiculous flaw - projecting what we want to see upon others - is also a powerfully good factor in many relationships.

We've all seen the Starry-Eyed Gal in love with the Big Jerk, everyone asking: how can she fall for HIM???? Doesn't she Get It? And she doesn't... and guess what? They are both happy. And vice versa; we have all seen guys fall for the most...ah... 'difficult' gals imaginable. And be happy. Happens alla time.

So my point is: it doesn't matter what happened to everyone else, or who they are, or who you are, or what you see or 'get' or what the general consensus is. At all.

I won't pull out the Sartre philosophy texts, but at bottom, there's strong evidence that it can't matter much what anyone else thinks.

Good luck, and if you are both happy, I wish you the best.

I met a lovely man back in September, somewhat less than 6 weeks after I entered SL. On the evening of our initial meeting, we stayed up until sunrise talking about everything imaginable, some of it quite revealing. We spent the next couple of months talking and getting to know each other, but we were both otherwise involved so nothing ever went further than a little flirtation. Eventually, though, we were free to engage in a bit of SL romance, which quickly worked its way out into email and another online game we play. He hasn't been on SL much in recent months, but we still talk everyday in these other formats, often several times a day. I adore him, and he me, and yes, we've discussed meeting many times, but it's just not feasible right now, and unlikely to be for at least several more months. Do I love him? Yes. He's one my best friends and something always seems missing from my day on the rare occasions when I don't get to talk to him. But would I claim to be in love with him? No. Too many other factors go into determining that sort of relationship, not the least of which is chemistry, and that can only be determined in a face-to-face meeting. And, while I find the sense of connection between us immensely promising, I have no idea how much of it will actually carry over to real life if and when we do meet. I'm certainly not un-serious about the more romantic aspects of our online relationship, but the true he status he holds in my heart and mind at this point in time is 'close friend, with potential.'

My point is this: If you believe you love someone, then you do, no matter where or how you met. But, at the same time, trying to define that love so concretely before you have all the pertinent facts is a sure recipe for disaster. Put the friendship first and, if the romance doesn't work out, at least you'll be less likely to lose the person you care so much about.

Hope for the best and expect the worst
As a vetran of phone dating (how many years ago was that the hight tech )
Just be careful
Maybe bring a can of mace

My case is a little different in that I fell in love all over again with my RL husband when I got to know him in SL. I was able to see sides of him I couldn't see in RL. He has a great sense of humour that isn't always evident unless he is a Tiny, dancing and wearing his party hat!

We discovered that we enjoy our friendship in SL just as much as in RL so I would imagine the reverse is also possible..that if we had met in SL, we would have the friendship in RL too.

Though I wish I had known about some of his great qualities I discovered in SL earlier! Would have helped our RL relationship a lot.

And sometimes when we can't communicate in RL we will go to SL together and chat that way and it always clears up.

And he finally took me ballroom dancing!

Back in the dark ages, before the internet and even before the telephone, handwritten letters served as the communication medium for people who had never met, but nonetheless fell in love.

They faced the same pitfalls then as we do now. Sometimes the letters were based on revealed truths about themselves and were a springboard to a genuine romance in the flesh. Other times, the letters were based on a tissue of lies that were revealed all too late.

Just be glad you don't have to spend a few weeks traveling by stagecoach to find out which category you fall into.

This is awesome!

I can see how this can happen, because you're dropped in a environment that's much more active and stimulating than your living room. People often need input to produce output. We tend to reflect our environment.

Silly in=Silly out

Although I'm sure that overall, SL and other online worlds are more likely to cause friction between most couples. I imagine very few couples will log into SL together. Somebody will log into SL to have fun and socialize. But meanwhile in RL, their partner is sat staring at the back of their head wondering "Why do we bother?".

But hey! That's a marriage!