And the casinos come crashing down....

A little creativity in advertising, some reinventing and these businesses, both gambling and sex based can continue. These places now become Private clubs advertised under different names."Adult or Gaming" or whatever. I don't blame the Providers for CYA ing. I think this could help drive out some of the less scrupulous establishments in the end. This is an opportunity for those of you out there with some advertising and marketing savvy to figure out ways to keep these businesses going usung the house rules. Personally I don't like the Sanitization of Second Life but it is what it is, all we can do is try to make the best of it.

One datapoint I read in a related article:

"While it is difficult to estimate the total size of the gambling economy in Second Life, the three largest poker casinos are earning profits of a modest 1,500 U.S. dollars each per month, according to casino owners and people familiar with the industry."

Second Life is becoming increasingly popular...I think it's one of the greatest
experiments ever conducted on the internet...and being experimental there's
lots of new ground out there to cover.

Remember the line in Jurassic Park:

Henry Wu: You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will... breed?

Dr. Ian Malcolm: No, I'm simply saying that life, uh... finds a way.

- Infrared

Hi Gaybot oooops thats not PC lol but shows the crazyness that abounds here now, i think that the disneyfication of the grid is towards the unification of both grids into one grid eventually, maybe they are trying to hide it but tho the US government is dumb its not totally stupid so will always look and remember there are people already asking if they can AR any casinos in advertising yet, sheesh some people need to get a life lol but its those same people im sure that have been writing and calling their local congressman etc. which eventually has lead to this weekends announcement and im sure they will continue to call/write to the FBI and their senators if they see it still.

For those people that want to see SL become disneyfied i suggest looking here for some new places to play http://www.virtualworldsreview.com/info/categories.shtml

Since this effects so many residents, and involves real money, which is real business to casino owners. I think Linden owes everyone some real answers. So there is not so much speculation. It needs to be made more clear.

what does this question have to do with my post?

My post didnt mention prostitution. Am I being misquoted?

The post you quote was me commenting that people were glad to point at laws as a good reason to ban one unpopular activity(SAP); while a couple weeks later people railed against laws becuase it hampered another, more popular activity(gambling).

They can click that blue L$ button in the top right corner and get all the L$ they need .

They are clearer on this than they have been on any other "ban" (soft ban. whatever this is) theres even a Blog entry.

There's no hidden agenda here.

The U.S. Government has outlawed internet gambling. Period. The only amibiguity is whether or not the activities in Second Life will warrant scrutiny from the U.S Government, and that's not our call to make.

Until now, LL and SL residents have been flying under the radar, but with increased publicity has come exposure. Honeymoon is over and LL, from what I've seen, has covered our asses as much as it can. But after a point, they have to cut loose or risk endangering the entire venture, which would mean no SL at all.

The "courage" that posters demand is damn stupid. If you don't like these laws, then have the courage to try and change them. But don't ask someone else to break them as a protest on your behalf.

I doubt that will happen as LL has a well tried and trusted method of introducing changes into SL as follows:

Formulate announcement, release announcement to SL Friday evening or the day before a holiday then let it play out in the forums etc.

Result LL does not have to deal with it in the same way as its lost momentum by monday as they dont work weekend office hours, this weeks great, released thursday evening, today is Good friday, and monday is easter monday and i assume they celebrate the easter holiday in the US so come tuesday the fervour they hope will have died down to something manageable. It also means they dont have to make an official announcement straight away as they can then judge the attitude of the customers and rearrange their plans as needed and put out a PR that covers the points raised in the forums etc.

In the short time i have been here i have seen these announcements played out over again in the forums, probably the reason a lot of these threads are never locked as it has the percieved effect at LL im sure of letting people vent.

Some things never change

I have mixed feelings about it.

On the one hand, I think there are far too many look-alike casinos in SL. They're fun to drop into once in a great while, but they don't take any creativity and one is very much like any other. There are far more interesting places in SL, that attract visitors because the owner has done something unique and appealing. Vast swaths of the mainland are just parcel after parcel of casinos, strip malls and other dime-a-dozen places. It's almost like driving through middle America and seeing the same half-dozen fast food places at every Interstate exit. If people are less able to draw customers into a casino, maybe some of them will find more creative and interesting ways to use the land.

But on the other hand, I'm concerned about LL measures that serve to restrict what residents do. I understand their need to protect themselves legally and I appreciate that they're finding compromise solutions rather than banning things outright, and that's good. But I'm just uneasy about any message that this is my world and my imagination, except for this or that thing I might imagine. Casinos and ageplay don't impact me all that much. The next thing they set their sights on might.

I don't envy LL's position, having to balance the desires of their residents against their legal responsibilities, but I do hope that they won't slip further down the slippery slope.

I don't believe I quoted you as saying anything of the sort or altered your quote, it wasn't directed specifically at you, sorry if that's the impression you got.

How sickening to see fantasy being torn apart tiny little bit by tiny little bit and shoved into the backroom.

"Your World, your imagination"

Yeah, right.

As one of the long-term experimental rats in this little project, I am disgusted to bear witness to the white-washing of SL. I used to think I was safe to dream here. And for everyone who hit the snooze button over the ageplayers and now will hit the snooze button again for the casinos... its going to be a rude awakening when LL decides YOUR activities require censorship.

Do you sell adult sex furniture? pose balls? slave collars? prim penises? skins with genital hair? Have you considered which way the wind is going to have to blow for you to be considered "broadly objectionable" and what's going to happen to the money you sunk into this little experiment?

This is a ridiculous assertion

Even IF LL banned gambling 100%

Remember gambling on Second Life is UNREGULATED, and illegal in LL's host country. Gambling in the US is only allowed under license in limited areas.

Im sure UNREGULATED gambling is illegal in most countries.


I dont even consider gambling part of the disneyfication thats happening. Its a quasi illegal activity they turned a blind eye to.

Much as I wish to avoid "Me Too" posts, I have to say, very well said.

Oh, it's not hidden. We know they are doing this for the CYA factor. I just want to know what is considered 'gambling.' In Arkansas, even charitable bingo and raffles are considered gambling, because they offer the chance at a prize in return for money. Most places get around this by 'requesting' a donation before you can participate.

I am sorry to have to post this here but I do not believe we are being told the whole truth

Robin Linden you say and I quote

“We have recently received an increasing number of questions about simulated casinos in Second Life. Despite reports to the contrary, we know of no law enforcement agency that has opened an investigation into gambling in Second Life.”

However Reuters have said

“SECOND LIFE, April 3 (Reuters) - The FBI has visited casinos in Second Life at the invitation of Linden Lab, but federal law enforcement officials have not yet taken an official stance on virtual gambling.

“We have invited the FBI several times to take a look around in Second Life and raise any concerns they would like, and we know of at least one instance that Federal agents did look around in a virtual casino,” said Ginsu Yoon, until recently Linden Lab’s general counsel and currently vice president for business affairs. “We have specifically requested that a US Attorney give us guidance on virtual gaming activity in SL, but this hasn’t resulted in clear rules yet.”

Here are the links

http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/04/03/fbi-probes-second-life-gambling/

It would appear your ex-legal advisor has confirmed this point.

If you are asking me to accept your word over that of a lawyer AND Reuters a trusted news agency, you loose.

Regards

John

Its probably not as ridiculous as you feel but thats just my opinion as its yours and i respect that 100% as i know you do mine. I was just reiterating that slowly but surely things are taken away from the players, but thats what makes the forums a great place to discuss all aspects of the threads However i hold with the thourght that this is just the tip of a bigger iceberg and eventually SL will be sanitised enough to create one game for all ages.

I do agree that gaming in here should be regulated and should have been from the start as LL would have, im sure envisaged all these potential problems long ago in the vision for here thats just bad risk assessment on LL part. When people have asked for regulation here on games machines it all goes unnoticed, now LL have got a hot potato as they have been allowing it to go on with their blessing for sometime well many years in fact, whats to say anyway that one of the US's many armed enforcement agencies dont shut LL down for investigation as they will know that LL has been encouraging casinos in SL for years now, sheesh its even in the book along with camping as ways to make money. If that happens all this will be academic as there will be no SL and we will all lose what we have here. But at least the loss wont be because the asset server baulked again.

What i find the most difficult to understand is why LLs have said all we are to do is remove the word casino etc from adverts so i assume from that its a grey area as LL would have banned casinos totally if it was a real issue. Which leads me back to the fact this a smokescreen towards the disneyfication of SL, they are using the cover of a government agency to further clean up SL without as much flack as if they just banned it, but im sure eventually casinos in SL will be no more, as will cashing out L$'s unless u fill out reams of paperwork and im sure many other things we take for granted here that the US government will find offensive over time, they cant control the internet but they can perhaps control here whilst LL stays in the USA.

So from their post i can continue running my casino that costs me to run lol just not advertise the word casino in my advert so i will call them Gaming rooms from now on and i had brought a lot of 16mtr plots to run the lottery ticket sellers from around the grid maybe now LM givers to the casino will have to be added i dread to think whats going to happen in game now i reckon 16Sq mtr plots just rose a few L$s in price.

My final thourght is that perhaps now 69% of players here are not from the USA then maybe LL should consider moving its offices/servers to Europe/UK now they have an office here, and then ban the USA players from places that offend the US government via their IP addy, unless that was the plan all along as LL wants a global audience and the world is not America tho many would disagree

Just my personal opinion and i love the States just your government and president sucks even worse than ours does

Peace

The one thing I would like to see clarified is exactly what LL is planning to include in this advetising ban.

There are many activities that might or might not be classed as gambling but do not involve casinos or traditional style casino games. -ingo games and lotteries are 2 that come to mind quickly.

Hush dont tell anyone about the linden $ printing button LOL

er ... John, there is no conflict here. Coming in to check things out is not the same thing as opening an investigation. The latter is a formal process that includes interviewing witnesses, gathering and documenting evidence, building a case.

Sounds like what they've done so far is stick their heads in the door to try to get an idea whether there is something they need to investigate. But they are not so far, to the best of Robin's knowledge, investigating.

They are paying attention, and they might choose to open a formal investigation, but they haven't yet.

I agree with that one but as per usual they post notices of magnitude at weekends and holidays then formulate the PR when they get back to the office. Can i use the word Casino in my picks?

I run with others, the SLSF lottery which is a grid wide lottery with the aim of the Support fund to support, via grants, people with a business plan, get started here in SL. We are totally non-profit and transparent in our accounting and never even sell enough tickets to cover the prize so i buy the prize and the ticket money goes into the fund along with donations we get from in world it would be a shame if i cant advertise that because of all this hassle.

I have vendors everywhere with SLSF lottery on them it would be a shame if i have to close that lottery even tho it costs us a lot of RL cash to run its still fun and is helping others here in SL.

We had plans for our own sims this year but for now that has got to go on the back burner as im not prepared to risk that sort of loss whilst LL is in such a state of flux and doesnt seem to have a clear road map, whilst continuing to drop bombshells on the players at the weekends, rather, than field the flak and deal with it during a normal working week.

This brings to mind a very unfortunate expression - please forgive me for using it... "You can't rape the willing." grins

It's semantics, really. There is no investigation when the 'suspects' are knocking on the door, evidence in hand, looking for a decision.

Robin is not one to mislead; I've spoken to her at length in the past and it's simply not her style, plus there is no motive for her to do so whatsoever.

All business in SL are also unregulated. You have no guarantee that when you buy an item you will get it. The vendor could be rigged as to never give you the items. If that happens what recourse do you have? None. But I bet you will never go back and try to buy from that person again. The same thing with casino games. If people rumble about a game maker that rigs their games, you will not go to that casino.

Also, what most people aren't counting is all the people that create these games for the casinos to use. There are a lot of people that placed a lot of hard work, time, and money in creating some of these games that people enjoy playing. The banning of casinos will hurt more then just the casino owners, but it will hurt all the employees and creators that do a lot of the work.

Hmmm well first off from your own text it appears he was promoted rather than being thir ex legal advisor.

WHile you dont say that he quit the tone of you post seems to suggest it.

So their former legal advisor who is now a VP Business manager - set up their policy and now they are simply taking their "Were not the content makers" policy one step farther when it comes to gambling.

I dont see the conflict.

As far as Reuters goes - they are little more than a "average" news wire service whose reputation is far from impeccable. They seem to print any story they can.

The story seems resonable I dont see the big consipracy. The Feds have nosed around, and the Lindens have decided to firm up their role is host stance.

I imagine and expect they will take this approach for each and every questionable activity that brings bad press and/or possible legal attention.

They arent in business to fight for gambling rights or free speech or the neutrality of the internet or anything like that.

[/url]

You know spreading hate really is wonderful a? Its bad enough that people are thoughtless, and totally narrowed because of their own lack of understanding the rest of the world other then their own.........I feel sorry for you......