And the casinos come crashing down....

Neither, I think it's the smallest action that can take with the greatest rewards. If the political forces align so they have to ban gambling so be it but they won't ban gambling if they don't have to. Shutting down an industry in SL would reduce the growth of SL and maybe even reduce the number of productive customers. I think it becoming hidden is one of the benefits but not the reason. Of course all someone has to do is create an advertising service to mimic the classifieds and the industry is no longer hidden.

I'm so glad i do not have to admin them too. Enough work for me here.

haahha why close this thread? that a laught and makes no sence.Strife is repling to this thread so..... Nothing is wronf with chatting about these issues that effect the social welfare of the game........chalk up another one for her/he......

I’ve read the blog, and I’ve read each response and honestly, so many of them frustrated me because so many people are unaware of what goes on in the casino/poker industry.

The casino that I work at is on private sims. We lag out nobody but ourselves. Our casino offers live dj’s, live entertainment and does charity events. Our casino employs about 30 people, giving them money that everyone puts most of back into SL. We buy clothes, land, items, etc.

Most of the people that regularly play at our poker tables don’t use real life money to buy their lindens to play with. They have jobs in SL, or they are creators and designers. Some play the stock market. Do they spend their SL money in our place? Yep. But for the most part, they aren’t using real life money to gain it.

Yes, our new players spend a small bit of real life money on our tables. Our lowest blind tables which cost less than a dollar (usd) to play. Do they sometimes buy more to do that? Only a few times. But then they discover that if they want to keep playing, they need an SL source of income to do it.

Many of our players don’t even have payment information on file, meaning they aren’t buying lindens with real life money.

Many of our players are also land owners, renters, and shop keepers. They provide a good or service in SL that any one of you would probably buy.

Do some casinos have camping chairs available? Yes. Do all? Nope. We don’t believe in camping chairs. Instead, we support our guests in finding jobs in SL, some of which are at our own casino. Many of our hosts have their landmarks to newbie places ready to hand out to newbies, which greatly reduces the “begging” that often arises in these environments.

While you are busy staring down your noses at the casinos and saying “good job SL”, you should instead be raising your voices, because it will not end here. Big Brother, whether you live in the U.S. or not is going to dictate what you can and can not do in every aspect of your second life! Dj’s will be effected. Live performers will be effected. Escorts will be effected. Content creators will be effected. EVERYONE! If you don’t speak now, who is going to be around to speak up for you when it is YOUR turn to come under the big brother knife?

Not even corporations are safe here guys cause U.S. laws apply to you as well! EVERYONE will be effected, all the way down to our dear Adam Reuters.

Come on people! How can you stand by and watch as so many people have their second lives, their fantasy lives, intruded upon? Do you really think it will stop at advertising? Big Brother tells us how to live our lives in real life right down to the tiniest detail. They micromanage our real lives in such ways that living out our dreams is becoming only possible in a game environment and now even that they are trying to regulate and control! Even that they are now stepping into! Do you really want Big Brother to micromanage your fantasy lives? Come on and wake up! It doesn’t stop with ageplay. It doesn’t stop with casinos, and it won’t stop with YOU either!

You don’t like casinos. Fine. Don’t visit them. Put in a petition to LL that all casinos be required to have their own private sims. Put in a petition that all casinos be required to be marked as mature content! You guys want changes that’s fine. But any changes to our second lives should be given by US as a community! Only WE should be governing ourselves and deciding what our laws are! Not the U.S. government or any other government!

But no. The vast majority here are perfectly happy with having someone else telling them how to live their lives, both their first lives and their second ones. The vast majority here would rather lie down and take it rather than to take a stand. The vast majority here are not independant free thinkers capable of governing themselves, capable of standing up for their own rights.

Cause if the vast majorty were, they’d have taken that stand long before now.

What are you waiting for? Get up. STAND UP! Cause guess what buddy? YOU COULD BE NEXT IN LINE!!!!

I have never been to a casino on SL and don't plan on it but I agree with Graciella...it's not necessarily something to cheer about. This is the next crackdown and there will be more, most assuredly. I do not think Linden Lab wants to do this but they have to protect themselves legally.

Strife's closed two other threads on this topic, I believe, using the "this is not a general discussion forum" line. Certainly there's no historical reason to expect consistency in the moderation of these forums, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that the moderation lightning could strike thrice in the same spot.

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Double extra super not to be advertised would be casino's for people pretending to be under 18 having sex.

I don't think LL has any choice in this matter. We could all lose everything if the government comes in and closes them down.

As for the escorts, etc., I don't know, but I don't think that is equivalent to prostitution. I think it's more equivalent to phone sex. I don't believe that's outlawed, is it?

Whereas it's far easier to make a case that SL gambling IS gambling.

I'm wondering - does this mean people can't advertise bingo? I never considered that gambling . . .

coco

I would like to see some clarification on "simulated casino activity". Does this mean gambling activities can not be advertised? Or is it just the word "casino" that can't be advertised?

Slingo, Tringo, Bingo, lotteries are all forms of gambling. Can they be advertised?

Everybody is gambling nickels and dimes. And before the media explosion nobody gave a damn. Its the hype that attracts such things as government tax enforcers. This is the price of progress. Never cared for the casino's anyway, no regulatory agency to keep them honest. May only be a nickel or dime, but its my nickel and dime. ( and maybe soon, the governments two cents)

I am in total agreement with Graciella. I don't like the casinos but then that's why I simply don't visit them. The lag factories people cite in their argument for the banning aren't really casinos anyway, visit one and you'll see camping zombies galore and nobody playing any of the games. A little internal regulation on how casinos are structured would solve the problem of these blights that really only use the name casino to attract more people in. Should we really throw the baby out with the bathwater? Hopefully an outright ban won't come and as others have said, it will be hard to enforce anyway but if it does, its worrying that so many people are happy to praise such a needless blanket action. Its far too easy to backslap and throw out "I told you sos" when its someone else's problem but eventually the knock may be at your door, who will be left to speak up for you then?


Oh and about bingo Coco, I'm not sure of US law, but here in the UK it is gambling and if played for money requires a gaming licence from the Gaming Board. Churches and schools and the like run games for fundraising purposes which, while technically still illegal, seem to be overlooked out of common sense really.

That worries me too. In my latest LR review request, I've conveyed mine and the group opinion on this, (for example pointing out that First_they_came... only has 4 blocks and that being half way there is freaking people out).

as always.............whatever..................

Let me ask you strife, you been around along time, what is your take of his whole gambling concept?

What is my take of this whole gambling concept?
Personally I'm biased against gambling in SL but I understand the niche that gambling fills in SL, the politics and the economics are more important them my feelings. The gambling industry attracts people seriously interested in providing a quality service but it also attracts con men and with how SL is designed there is little that can be done about the latter.

I think this is a storm that casino's will weather. The better run casinos have more to offer then just gambling, what this update will do is force them to focus more on those other things they offer, be it events, classes, shopping or dancing. The casino traffic sinks are going to evolve into something else, I doubt the camping chairs will go away, they too have a place in the economy. It's a change to the industry, and as long as the industry figures out how to adapt it can live on. The casinos that provide more then just machines will probably get an increase in customers as the smaller casinos evaporate but it really all depends how they play their cards. The transition will be tough and I foresee casualties but in the end I think the industry will be providing a better product.

The gaming of property descriptions and classifieds, as Desmond pointed out, I don't see to much of an issue as long as they don't start gaming spelling (stupidity just irks me).

Many people attribute to LL the "they are out to get me/us". The decisions LL makes are typically the type where they can't go forward anymore and they need to change the direction they are going. This is one of those situations, faced with nuking advertisements for casinos or nuking the grid, I'd choose the former without a second thought; and thats what this is really about, it's about keeping everything afloat. Its easy to say it's sucky solution, the truth is it is a sucky solution, but its the best of the solutions. Another of the sucky solutions would have been to just outright ban gambling. Banning gambling would have eliminated the risk of liability but they choose the compromise that reduced their risk and kept casinos in business. If LL didn't care about their customers they would have just banned it outright. I'm not blind to the shadows on the wall, I'm entertaining the idea that they have perfectly reasonable explanations.

Musings:
People these days seem to think 'compromise' is a dirty word. I have problems understanding this. A compromise is better then nothing.

Well regardless of LL policies, what are thy going to do when a Government, especially their own gives them some choices it they want to continue business, tell them to go Go Jump perhaps and see what happens?
And the difference between cybersex & gambling is someone can script a gambling machine to rip you off without you realising, can't do that with prostitution.

Yep and perhaps that is why they do it this way or they could just start a panic an shut all casinos down tommorrow instead?

Why? What's wrong with sandwich board noobs? They deserve to earn a buck, I don't see shop owners employing them as sales assistants. So what else are they to do when they are too new to build/script?
If you're one of those that blanket bans them for walking into your store, please ban me too so I don't accidently shop there.

So those that are quite happy to have/use unregulated gambling here , how do you feel about gambling machines that run scripts that remember which avatars spent how much money and readjusting odds depending on the spending of those avatars or the machines that readjust the loss/win odds depending on the amount of money placed as a bet, that is your odds of winning placing $20 are a lot better than your odds of winning placing $1000? How about machines that are able to be manually controlled by the owner in his camping alt sitting 3 machines away observing your responses reeling your cash in like fish?
I’m not suggesting this is all gambling in SL, it may not be common at all but, there’s nothing stopping anyone who wants to from doing it.
Compulsive Gamblers always know when to stop don’t they? Next we should advertise Loan sharking

Perhaps a greedy individual has overdone it, ripped off the wrong person, someone else has complained to the relevant authorities who rather than make a big kaffufle, have strolled into LL had a chat and suggested the options SL has to fix the situation the Government can no longer ignore. So perhaps it is not LL driving these decisions at all, they may have a deadline to remove all gambling or prove regulation of gambling.

The Govco may have had Gamblingbots surveying club machine returns and decided that the profit compared to what RL casinos are making is a bit excessive pr they just want to regulate it to get a piece of the action. Maybe the real Casinos are having a spit at lost winnings, people no longer visiting their premisis when they can gamble from the loungeroom at home.

Ok i like that one good call!

I add to this............ what about those that set their payout to ZERO..

Thats the answer Ban the US players from the casinos lol the USA make up only 31% of SL now LLs we need a way to verify if a player is from the USA so we can put them on the ban list, hmmmm then one for age players, one for furries and not forgetting the Gors, how about the religious people as religion offends me? jesus LLs didnt some European dictator do that to people in the 40's?

SL is on a slippery slope towards total disneyfication imho

Well they would be the really dumb ones because you would stop going back pretty quick when you never won, the smart ones reel you in winning smaller amounts till you feel confident then 99% grabbing the lot when you gamble big. They work out your monetary limits in the first 10 bets and decide to tweak the odds depending on how far above or below the middle you are of your limits. So when you win 2 times in a row on $10 bet then bet $100 your goose is cooked.
And if it's good enough for SL why can't RL casinos do it the same? Why should they suffer regulation restrictions & inspections.

you are NEVER too new to build.
I was building on my first day.

Perhaps but did you have a store chain of vending machines selling products in the first month? Sandwichboard walkers are nice people, and real people rather than cleaning/camping bots that ignore you. After saying hello, I walked into the middle of 6 cleaning campers the other day and offered $100 Linden to any one that responded, no takers of course.

More camping chairs, well it makes sense for them

The smugness a lot of people are displaying regarding this decision by LL is all very well - but this will have a serious negative effect on the whole economy. Consider the weekly total amount spent currently on casino advertising, casino/ gambling related Linden Dollar Transactions, camping earnings / expenditure etc. etc.

Furthermore, advertising of casinos will probably move to somewhere outside of SL. In the same way that we have http://www.slpopularplaces.com/ for example.

As a casino owner, I would also like to point out that I have yet to encounter any 'rigged' or 'manipulated' casino games - though i'm sure they do exist. It's simply not necessary to run rigged casino games - the fact is that Casinos make money because people don't know when to quit. It's just human nature that drives a casino's profits. And if people find that they simply cannot win in a casino (because there IS something dodgy going on) then they will find somewhere else to gamble - it simply doesn't make business sense to try tricking people like that.

No of course I didn't. But I didn't need to either. NEED is relative to most noobs. The ones taking "Sandwich board" jobs are, in my experience, saving up for another weapon with which to shoot innocent bystanders. These are the people, in my experience, who can't be bothered to actually buy lindens, or find a way to actually earn money. Even camping.. which is the bane of "land access rights" people.. is preferable to a guy with a walking billboard going afk in my store.

Most signboarders I have encountered.. and rough panhandlers. Walking around with a sign, demanding a job, or a handout, from everyone they come in contact with. At least campers are relatively passive in their way. I have been threatened several times by signboarders who wouldn't take the message that I wasn't hiring them, nor was I going to give them anything.

As for your offer, Campers are often real people too.. but they've realized that camping is most efficiently done when asleep, in bed, or at work. Yes there are bots doing camping. But then again.. I wouldn't talk to anyone offering me money to prove I wasn't afk either. And most certainly not for the paltry 33 cents you were offering, to risk a possibly harrassment attack in world from someone looking to berate campers for all the woes of the world.