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Some answers from Linden Labs.

Darkside Eldrich
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Join date: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 200
04-15-2006 16:51
From: Lina Pussycat
Ok some facts here is most people in SL arnt malciious they are few and far between.

1. Griefers.
2. It doesn't take a lot of malicious people, just a few. Once the tool is available, people are more likely to be malicious because it's easy (script kiddie syndrome)

From: someone
And it lowers the commercial value of SL by allowing people to manipulate things having your own little world wouldnt be good either that would hurt the value of SL.

How? Would SL lose customers? Probably not... those little worlds would be good test beds for designing stuff in private, but who has the resources to host a decent number of sims/people? It wouldn't harm LL, because *They already offer the game for free*. There is little incentive NOT to play on LL's grid.

Startup companies might create different grids, but competition is good for a capitalistic market.

From: someone
Look at it this way you will get a linux client consider that its still alpha they have to develop it it has to go thru the same stuff pc and mac did. They decided to release it which is nice for you guys but you jsut complain cuz dev is slow is all i've seen. There is absolutely no reason other then rushing about the development of it that it would help.

Oh, I don't care whether they make it open source or not. I'm just arguing that your points about it being a bad idea to open the source are weak arguments. I hold to my original point on that score: It's LL's software, they can do whatever the bloody heck they like with it :)

From: someone
It would never be the official client and would cause alot of problems that i wont go into.

Why not? I mean, we've kinda hijacked this thread, so moving to another thread would be smart, but I'm honestly curious to know what these problems are.

As for it "never being the official client"... do you know how the open source development model works? I posted a link to The Cathedral and the Bazaar earlier in the thread... you should check it out. The Lindens would be the development core, accepting or rejecting patches from the community. The dev core in an OSS project become mediators as well as developers, sorting through submitted patches and seeing what's good.

It's a lot like having someone over your shoulder, saying things like "why don't you try..." or "you could speed things up by..." Except there are hundreds of those people. Yes, it adds some interesting management issues, but if you're prepared, it's a powerful tool. And nothing has to be "unofficial".

From: someone
And L2J used java and was a piece of crap in all honesty lol. It was missing alot of content and other stuff.

Hey, I like L2J! My roommate and I wrote a graphical admin interface for it once, and he submitted a lot of patches to them. Of course, the problems you describe have to do with the fact that they never hit a critical mass of developers. (again, see CatB) But the project had a lot of potential.

And Java was a pretty feasible platform for it. Ran fine on my machine. No more lag than the official servers anyway.

From: someone
As far as stuff being stored locally to a degree yes but its not really anything like that.

You seem to know a lot more about the SL client than I've been able to gather from my experiences. If it's not really like the model I describe, how is it implemented?

From: someone
making free is alot about trust and then a ton of people with a diff client slows production and alot of other stuff ill not run into specifics here to long...

Open source projects fork VERY VERY rarely, and usually only for a damn good reason. It is in everyone's best interest to share fixes with each other. If the open source model slows production, why does Linux improve so rapidly, especially compared to, say, Windows?

I'd like to hear these specifics though. Perhaps a new thread is in order?
ninjafoo Ng
Just me :)
Join date: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 713
04-16-2006 01:20
From: Darkside Eldrich
1. Griefers.
2. It doesn't take a lot of malicious people, just a few. Once the tool is available, people are more likely to be malicious because it's easy (script kiddie syndrome)


Grid Attack: Everyone remain calm
Seriously, what happened?
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Vinci Calamari
Free Software Promoter
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 192
04-16-2006 08:21
From: Lina Pussycat

...
I think keeping SL commercial will benefit it more then adding a ton of free stuff onto it.
....
I feel the claim i want it free comes from those that dont quite understand the inricacies of an online game world. Stating ohh we can fix bug etc etc etc.
...


Well much of whyt you wrote I could agree but those two points: I think you have not understand what free software is about (as many do not). Free software is not at all about non-commercial.

And OTOH: yes I do think the client fixes will help, as Linux client gets much data that it does not interpret now. Our situation is that Linux client is ages behind the Windows client. but i do agree that a server based "game" must take both sides into account.


Vinci
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Vinci Calamari
Free Software Promoter
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 192
04-16-2006 08:30
From: Lina Pussycat

So in retrospect Making SL free if it was a single player world or a strictly Lan based world that is actually stored locally would work but as it stands now SL cant work as an open client without resulting in conflicts with the server!!



What you actually say would mean that it would make no sense to have a free web browse, because Microsofts IIS is not free. The thing is that a client or browser must understand and respect the protocols. I did not say that this whole issue is easy. But i don't really think opening he development will make anything more complicated. But I would say it will make most sense if they open up the whole technology. Some Lindens agree on the view that SL itself is like a operating system - so it is like Linux itself. Linux is also free and is heavily depending on other servers.

I think that we should no see SL as a game but as an enabling technology. I would guess that LL could earn 500-600% more if they do open the technology and make it to soemthing everybody will use as if they would keep it to be just a nice role playing game.

And don't forget that Berners Lee could also have decided to make HTTP and HTML a proprietary technology. What would that have meant? We would not have the "modern" internet and everything what is running on top of it.

I see many things that remind me on the early internet and I would like SL to be the new HTTP ;-)

Vinci
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Vinci Calamari
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Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 192
04-16-2006 08:34
From: Lina Pussycat
Darkside stealing prim-based creative works leads me to believe your slightly paranoid. How often if ever has this been done in SL? Its really not a problem when msot of the community isnt a bunch of tech people that dont know how to do this stuff.


Well I think you are beeing naive here. Today in creations there is a lot of money. Steeling is happening, will happen and will increase as well as attacks on the grid. The more popular SL becomes the more criminality will happen. This is not YAG (Yet Another Game)!


Vinci
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Vinci Calamari
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04-16-2006 08:42
From: Darkside Eldrich


I meant: Commercially successfull? I think the server software is sucessfull but I am not sure that if server software is there for no cost that it is easy to earn money. I think SLs bonus is that there is "live" on their servers. So everybody could run a SL kind of server but bringing ppl on board is a whole different story. I think on this part it migth be easier to play with the BSDstyle business model. i don't like it, but it might make sense.

Vinci
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Darkside Eldrich
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Join date: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 200
04-16-2006 14:31
From: Vinci Calamari
I meant: Commercially successfull? I think the server software is sucessfull but I am not sure that if server software is there for no cost that it is easy to earn money.

I'll point out Livejournal again. Completely free server software, commercially successful. No advertisements, and still in business.

From: someone
I think SLs bonus is that there is "live" on their servers.

Agreed. The free/premium system seems to work pretty well, and it would be difficult for any competitor to make a grid better than LL's.
Vinci Calamari
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04-17-2006 02:53
From: Darkside Eldrich
I'll point out Livejournal again. Completely free server software, commercially successful. No advertisements, and still in business.


I have not looked at their development but found that the company was bougth by Six Apart. So Livejournal is not a company of its own. But even if they are commercially successful: I did say it is not easy - not impossible!


Vinci
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