Remove "FRIEND" from Map

I REALLY wish the map a friend feature was optional!!! I am sick of people just popping in on me. I have some of my best RL friends on my buddy list and they would be offended if I told them to "not drop in on me", so I would love for that to be an option to turn on/off on my behalf, to prevent intrusion of privacy and to prevent hard feelings.

For those people who are arguing for no change, please understand that we're not advocating that they take this feature away from you. What we are advocation, and requesting vigorously, is the option to toggle it off if we so desired.

There really should be no disagreement with this.

Unless of course you are in the detective business, or one who needs to keep track of your acquaintances at all costs (ie. stalker).

I'm really sorry that many of you have rude friends that just "pop in" on you. Perhaps you should only give out your card rather than friend someone. That way, they can IM you but they cannot map you. After they prove that they are a good friend, ie; one that will not intrude on your privacy, then you have the option to add them as a friend.

There is also the BUSY mode, and it works well...if you have good friends.

The tools already exist, use them properly and the problem is solved.

And remove the rude people from your friend list. When they ask why, tell them...it's good manners, and they could use a lesson.

I'm not against all of you requesting the change, but try using the existing options and removing those who have no manners from your friend list first. There is also the option of letting people know when you first friend them, that it's polite to check with you before they pop in.

...or we could just have the option to toggle it off.

Is that asking too much?

It is, for some people, Cheyenne. And they are pretty vocal about it.

Some people like to track their friends on the map. They not comfortable with the idea that some of their friends could go dark on them ... you know, be able to move about unseen on the map. Yeah, kinda like we do in real life. Instead, they want to know where thier partner is, or their friends are, and who is with who. This is very important to them. I understand their concern. However, suggesting that those of us who do not wish to be tracked are "doing something embarrasing" is obsurd.

It should be optional for those that do not wish to be tracked.

Easy, Dont use the "friends" function! If you dont like it, dont use it. Dont know how easy it can get.

With all due respect Ranma, that is pretty silly. This is the "Feature Feedback" forum and those of us who would like to see some improvements to this feature are providing feedback. It's okay for you present your reasons for wanting to track your friends, but telling the rest us not to make friends if we don't like it is not really helpful.

Yeh, just swap the two options so that the "give card" option is the more common one, and friendship is something you have to take an extra step to establsh.

As a person who has been on SL a very long time, before the "Friends" option existed, I personally like the system as is. I don't mind being stalked, just shows how popular I am LOL. However, I do understand the grief that it is an intrusion to be stalked. However, the "option" to prevent tracking is already in place, i.e, the calling card feature. The problem with that feature is that many users are uneducated about it and are thus less inclined to use it. My suggestion would be instead of taking the time to impose an entirely new system, why not improve the system already in place, which would be making the Calling Card feature more appealing. I personally don't use it, but I'm sure that Linden Labs could improve it greatly since it a feature that already exists. As opposed to the technicalities of incorporating a new system of things or waiting on one, like many have been doing.

Playing the devil's advocate, the ability to prevent tracking and/or anonymous log in, can and will breed a whole new set of abuse problems. Features are enabled to be abused. It sucks, but it goes hand in hand, kind of like rules are made to be broken. If I leave tracking on, and someone else takes it off or they are logged in anonymously, they can potentially pop in on me anyway. That is pretty damn scary (and more likely to happen than people think). Of course, I could always turn tracking off to prevent that from happening, but then it would defeat the purpose of having the option to track in the first place. As opposed to just educating the masses on calling cards, and people actually using the feature I think it is more satisfactory for both sides to improve that feature (people who are stalked won't be stalked and the people who like being stalked can continue to be the celebrities they are LOL).

In addition, in regards to business owners and anonymous log in, this could create an even larger IM problem. Or, it allows bad business owners to do just that - conduct bad business.

Just little things to think about before we start hiding from our friends because we choose to leave crazy people on our lists as opposed to just taking their card

I wouldn't mind using this as an option "not to be tracked". The problem I have isn't with others knowing I'm online in SL. It's them tracking every move I make. So... If calling cards would have a list (not hidden in a folder that we have to search through in inventory). And allow others to see when there contacts are online but not track them.

This would very well be a better feature to me then the friends list. I could then once I actually felt a person trusting enough. Make them a friend and able to track me when online. I never minded being known I was in SL. I just am not in the habbit of everyone I have on a list knowing where I am every minute. If you want to know. IM me and I'm always willing to answer. My true friends do this anyway.

I often offer friendship to a lot of people. I'd have to say most of them don't "pop" in on me. But, there are the few execeptions to every rule. So yes, if calling cards were like friends only no tracking? I think I'd defanitly live with that. The #1 thing I hate about the calling card is I have to search to see if the contact is online its not like a 1 button tells me yes or no.

Well here are some thoughts I have on this issue:
First some mentioned that you can tell if someone is online via calling cards. This is not true anymore. They need to be on your friends list to see their calling card "light up" in your inventory. The only way currently to find out if someone is online, if they are not on your friends list, is to go into FIND and bring up their profile that way. If you just open their calling card, it will say "UNKNOWN" for online status.

I too have ran into the problem with people just offering friendships for someone you just met, and one hates to decline it as then 9 out of 10 times it results in misunderstandings. I suggest just adding them then in a day or so take them off if you are concerned. You will still have their calling card. Usually it is not a issue, but if you just met them off the street.......

As for the notification box that pops up at the bottom of the screen when a friend goes online or off, you can turn this off in preferences.

I also like the idea of giving "mapping rights" similar to modify rights. Then you could pick and choose who can map you. I also think that if you are in BUSY mode, mapping should not be available (better yet if you have a option to allow this or not in your preferences). The Busy mode has so many possibilities and it is a shame that it does not have more options. Some nice options added would be the ability to see normal chat or not, get IM's or not, get mapped or not, etc.


At least we do have a recourse if need be by dropping people off the friends list. But I think the above options would really add to the SL experience

-DB

Sure Ive seen it on the greeting log in menu just assumed it meant friendship.

I have aprox 40 ppl on my frienship and 99% of these are customers!

When a person puts in a custom request either they or I exchange freindship so we can IM one another when the work is done...

Not one person has offered me their calling card instead of friendship and I have never heard of it.

Further more ppl who arent 'with' me say ' lets meet up so we can exchange cards' this could be business collegues or as I say customers...

SO I think its safe to say the 'calling card' is a mystery to most ppl even oldies like me

I recently had a misunderstanding with someone I gave friendship too. I admit part may have been my fault, I also did not realize there was a difference between friendship and calling card, so essentially everyone I befriended was handed full friendship rather than a card. I had a day recently where I friended at least 5-6 newbies, (I tend to take them under my wing, so to speak) and the next day noticed everywhere I went, a little green dot would show up on the mini-map. It didn't take long to realize it was one of these friends tracking me, but I was never IMed, so wasn't sure who, when 3 or 4 would be on at the same time. It's been resolved, but it would have never happened if the difference between calling card and friendship was clearer, or map-tracking could be turned off. It WILL NOT happen again. But in looking over my friends list, I realize many of them should just be acquaintances, only a few have become true friends.

Personally, I think map-tracking disabled should be built into "SET BUSY". If I'm busy and don't want to be disturbed with an IM, why would I want someone who can't IM me to be able to pop in on me. It also doesn't help that you don't have to have someone as a friend to track them. Just know their name. If I remember correctly, if you can read their profile, you can find them. Friend or not.

That's friends cards, not calling cards.

Calling cards are available, if you dont know what they are check help or even live help if needed. It does require a little EFFORT on your part. I like the friends options just like it is! If you dont want to be "tracked" dont have friends! It is very easy!

I like having my friends being able to find me!

Again, we are not asking that they remove the function as it is now. We are just asking for an option.

Would that impact you negatively in any way?

To clarify, nothing will change for you. But an option would be available for those that want it.

I dont think i can make it any clearer.

We just want an OPTION!

Geez lol.

This is exactly how I feel Cheyenne. And, exactly I don't want it to change for those that are happy. There experience may be fine with it the way it is. I'd just like to have the Option to turn this feature off for some or all if if that was the only way. This would only effect those that want to use it. No one would be forced to use it!

I think that Linden Labs will take the easy way out and eliminate the "friends" option if you make too much noise. That is the negative impact. I have seen similar things happen all of the time in my life. A small minority of people who are NOISY make public opinion and make things happen.

While it is a reasonable fear, there's no evidence to support it. In fact, if you look at the history of it, Linden Lab has been working with the user community to make this more useful for everybody.

In fact, friendships were created to maintain backward compatibility when Linden Lab reduced the power of calling cards. I have faith that they'll make new changes with the same restraint.

Linden Lab often works more slowly than we'd like, but I have yet to see a situation when they yanked features without providing backward compatibility or an alternative.

I rest my case! Calling cards are almost worthless! What will they replace friends with if anything? Residents want to make the "friends" option about as useless. It is up to the resident to be responsible for her/his own actions. If you make someone your "friend" you better be prepared to have them pop in on you.

Instead of changing the friends option, they should make the calling card option more powerful and place it in the lead box. Call it something else like friend but only when I want you to be or Friend but you are not really one, etc.

Every generation in SL is fearful of change, but change is necessary.

This is such a minor change compared to some from the past. There's no reason why Linden Lab can't make everyone happy on this issue and I believe that eventually they will.

Why is this thread in "Preview for SL 1.9"?

Shouldn't it be in "Feature Requests"?

The concept of calling cards, and even the structure of privacy itself, was created when Second Life was a tenth of the size (if not less) than it is today. What makes sense for a village may not apply to a booming metropolis.

As our world grows bigger, the voices screaming for some provisions for optional privacy within Second Life will continue to grow louder. We will eventually reach a point where it will be difficult to ignore those voices, if we haven't already.

Ranma, while I respect your right to hold your opinion on this subject, you appear to me to be somewhat inflexible in attempting to work out a compromise that everyone involved could be happy with.

Possibly the reason we are not seeing eye to eye on this subject is a cultural one? Especially in its major cities, Asia is a very crowded place. Some of the elements of privacy we take for granted in the West probably wouldn't make sense in Asian society.

I'm not suggesting that you are wrong on your point of view, only that we each hold one that works within our respective cultures. Second Life is a new culture onto itself - wouldn't it be amazing if we could come up with a strategy that would feel comfortable to everyone regardless of where in the world they originate from?

I strongly feel that there is a technological solution that will allow you to live your Second Life the way you wish to, and still allow those who wish to work without interruption to do so as well. Why not wait and see what sort of magic the developers might be able to come up with?

Travis you are correct about social differences. I can find "privacy" in a train so full it would be impossible to fall over. I can be private walking down a beach naked. My privacy comes from within me.

The problem comes from the two conflicting points of view. Those who want to operate in a open sim enviroment where you can spend hours exploring and seeing new things and the people who want to have "total" privacy. The bar lines are increasing in number and the number of security script users increasing. I bought one to check out the functions and yes these programs can intrude onto public or others land throwing a owner off her own land. I miss flying around on my Tarn (large riding bird). It is not possible any longer.

The threads may have different names but it comes down to this simple truth. Whether it take the form of limiting the friendship option, complete ownership of land at all heights and the concept of portals. This has been the basic question. Like oil and water the two concepts do not mix. Second Life is either going to become one or the other. Continuing on part one thing and part the other is going to cause continued conflict. The Lindens are not going to be able to please all residents.

You are Ulver Seich and I claim my milllennia-old probe droid.

Oh, that wasn't supposed to be a "spot the reference"?