New identity authentication system?

There.... all what I said all the time...

So why all this? To protect someone who wants to run a business that may be for whatever reason illegal in some countries????? Sorry, the problem of the persons who want to run that business... not mine.

Morwen.

Thanks for making it obvious that you're just trolling the thread when you insist on defending the point that a 15 year old claiming to be over 18 has a higher trust factor than a verified, real adult who's simply chosing to keep their personal details to themselves and those who need to know.

I'm not trolling at all. I'm not saying a 15 yr old pretending to be over 18 has more trust with me than a legitimate verified person such as yourself. I'm saying that if you, as that legitimate member opt out of letting my know that you are, in fact, legitimate then I will treat you as I would that 15 yr old posing as 18........with distrust.

Can the system be scammed? Absolutely! But, at least with a system in place I can have a little more confidence in who I'm dealing with.....not 100% but better than nothing at all. Opt in opt out..............I will treat each catagory as I do at present. Verified have more trust than non verified. Opt in's with have more trust than opt out's.

There is no 100% fool proof system.......but, right now there is no system at all. Just the "payment info" in the profile. And I really don't have all that much confidence in that right now. All I know is that some form of acceptable payment has been presented to LL. A stolen or "borrowed" credit card? Was any effort put out by LL to verify that that payment method is valid and is actually owned by the user? I have no way of knowing. And from the blog it seems that effort is going to be made..........and that is a good thing.

Like I said, LL is NOT going to tell anyone your name, age, sex, address, credit card number, or gender. All they are going to say to others is that "yes, we have checked the provided information and it is valid (within the realms of feasibility)." And if you choose to allow me to know that, fine..........if not then fine too. I will choose my trust level according to your wishes.

But still you are laying the the problem with the common SL player, who may never get involved with the business that are deemed to be illegal (in some countries, for whatever reason).

It is more reasonable to put the problem where it belongs.... with those folks that want to run this kind of business.....

Morwen.

Like the current useless ratings system does?

And how would you put that responsibility on the people who need the information? Have them gather that information independant of LL? Talk about personal information flying around in the wild.

One..........only one entity can be the focal point. That falls on LL's lap since they own the platform or system. And the only way that can be done is make it a system that incorporates everyone........not a few, but every single one of the users. Provide the information to LL and then tell them to either allow or disallow others to know that LL has that information on file. Your personal information will be as safe as it is right now. And if you choose to not let others know you have provided LL with that information expect to be treated accordingly.

My eye just felt on this....

A stolen card? I will notice with in a few hours if my CC is stolen, simply because it is somewhere I have to use very often. It is your responcebility to keep your CC safe.... and if it gets stolen, it will be blocked in minutes after I notice... which means LL will know too.

And "borrowed"? As a child using the card of its parents? Parents are fully responceble, My youngster knows what the punishment will be when I get her on something stuipid like that. She will keep something like out of her mind, because it will keep her for a very long time away from computers concerning spare time.
It is simple, if she likes some thing that needs a CC. She comes to me, we discuse it... and if we agree... I make the payment

For indenty theft.... kep a close eye on your CC balance...

So no excuses... If you handle it right, there is no room for that.

Morwen/

It proofs to LL that I am a Dutch person with the birthday on the card.... the experation date on the card... the security code on the card... the address on the card... the phone number that belong to it....

And if some minor is using the card of his/her parent, not Linden has a problem. The parent has.... and let me assure you, a big one.

What the heck do you need more? Me travelling to the US saying "hi" to a Linden?

Morwen.

Morwen, how exactly should a business owner in SL verify that a person is of legal age/location? Are you proposing that each business owner set up their own way of verifying information? Would you rather give your information out to someone you don't know at all, or Linden Labs? Do you want to have to go through a verification process for each individual business in SL that you interact with? In the end, the business will need to verify certain information, and the user will have to provide it to obtain that business' products or services. LL is simply providing an optional tool available for all business owners to do this in a consistent manner. If a user does not want to provide the requested information, then the business has the perogative not to do business with that user, and vice-versa. How hard is it to understand?

So how, exactly, do you see it that LL is unnecessarily invading your privacy? You still have the choice whether or not to provide that information.

They take the risk of running a business that may be illegal. They know that. If they don't want that risk, let them dropped the business.....

And no, they have not the right to gather personal information. They are with their business on a very sharp balance.... their own choice.

Morwen.

No. Just keep that kind of business out of SL.... unless you want to take the risk of going very wrong.

Morwen.

It is stupid.... The Casino-owners have a problem... and we normal SL players have to change things for it. That is dumb....

And invading my privacy..... LL has already all the info on me they may ever need.

Morwen.

So it all boils down to the fact that because YOU don't like any particular type of business and it is illegal (or unethical, or immoral or anything else along those lines) as far as you are concerned it's not your problem and to hell with those people? Internet gambling is illegal in my country yet I know it is not in other countries...........I don't gamble in SL but I don't see any problem with others doing it if it is legal in their country. LL cannot just shut the door on something that is legal for them. Well, I suppose they could but that would be almost suicide for if they did.

At least I know where you are coming from now.

No, you don't. You haven't even the slightest idea.

I am a RL business woman (as already told a hunderd times on these forums) and I have to make a goal this year you most likely only can dream about. And I love doing my job.... but within that what is allowed. So don't come down on me if I would not like business. You make yourself sound foolish with throwing around facts you have no proof of....

Wasn't it the big thing that the SL servers are located in the US? And that we because of that are bound to US laws... even those that don't live within the US? Good. That is reasonable...

And those from outside the US that want to gamble online? There seem to be very good services in Europe for that.

Morwen.

If you don't trust payment info, where a third party asserts that the supplied information is indeed valid, why are you so trusting about user-supplied information that is *not* verified in any way whatsoever?

You'll type in you're Jane Doe, living on Antartica, third iglo from the right and LL will quite happily accept that information and give your "trusted" gold star because their only interest is to provide legal security for themselves, they really don't care about protecting residents, that's up to each individual.

Point out where it says that the provided information will be checked for validity? It will be up to each and every resident to decide whether or not they want to be honest about the information they provide or whether they'll just make something up to placate the need to have that information, regardless of whether it's true or false.

If I tell you I'm either 27 living in Europe or 22 living in the US, how are you going to know which one is real? Maybe neither is accurate? The face value of both is certainly exactly the same because you need to trust me to give you truthful information.
How would LL know whether anyone is being truthful? You already indicated you don't trust any payment information, so how would you imagine LL finds out the answer one way or the other?

We'll most likely end up with an added "Age" and "Location" field under the First Life tab in our profiles, and that information will come with the disclaimer that LL is not responsible for verifying the accuracy of that information, leaving you to desperately clutch at a straw tricking yourself into believing that's information you can rely and trust.

Unless Linden Labs completely closes it's doors in San Francisco and cancels it business license in the United States and move lock stock and barrow to Europe or somewhere else it will always be bound to abide by US laws and regulations.

I don't care what you do in RL as you don't care what I do in RL........which I happen to choose not to disclose as you have. Please don't lecture me........thanks.

Then don't start telling me what I like or not. THANK YOU.

Morwen.

Kitty............Robin Linden stated that LL is working to get a system in place to verify the accounts. And a way of communicating that to users. Not the method in place right now. Why do you keep coming back to someone lying and placing that in their profile? If that is what Robin said then that would be total BS.........nothing more than it is at the present.

I'm not sure we are even disagreeing.

hm, I spoke with lots of fellow residents, ask them to check the SL account page and see if there is the CC named as usual, yes was the answer. Then I ask to check the billing info and WONDER WONDER-"

"We do not have credit card information on file for your account. You must add a credit card to your account by updating your payment information below."

so how come, just a thought, are we all forced to re-enter our details so LL can put them into a new database and got all they want to know without us even thinking so far?

Clever Robin, an easter egg to you for your smartness,lol

my question to you guys, have u checked your SL infos?

Yep. it is fully there.... CC info included. Which would suprised if it would not have been there, because just yesterday I bought through the website L$.

Morwen.

I guess you haven't heard of all these new gadgets doing the rounds then?
Swipe the card, store the info from the magnetic stripe, replace the card (or hand it back to the customer if the thief is working in a shop/bar etc). Once they have that information, they can place it on pretty much any card with a magnetic stripe and go empty your account from an ATM.

Anyway, back on topic, why so angry about giving people the choice to verify certain things?

Age verification is not much use to somebody who is running an illegal business. If they are breaking the law why would they even care what age their users are?

On the other hand, age verification is very useful to those people who want to keep their business legal, by not allowing minors in.

This whole thing would be a voluntary process, and you could choose not to release any of your info to anybody, in which case nothing has changed for you.
The only time it would affect you is if you are a user of a service/product that is likely to need verification, in which case it's a problem for both consumer and provider, not just the providers.

Can you paste the part that makes you believe LL is going to step in as an identity validator?

Nowhere does it say that LL plans to verify the supplied information, or guarantee in any way that it's accurate.

Just try and imagine for a moment what it would take for you to verify my location and age. I could send you a legally certified copy of my national ID, so you'll have the reasonable assumption that it's not forged, but you still are in no way certain that it's actually my ID I sent you, so other than me flying over to LL so they can compare the picture on my ID to me in person, you just won't know.

And as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, asking 1 million active residents to send over copies of their ID and processing those manually is just not something they're going to do.

So that leaves you with a system where the information you see has no more value than the age and location anyone would have on a site such as MySpace.

As I said, keep an eye on your CC balance... and as so often adviced, don't give your CC out of hand, if it has to go through a machine, do it yourself... or at least don't lose your CC out of eye.

BTW it is not a new gadget at all, they tried to do it with normal bankcards as well. Even some years ago already. Problem is, it is very traceable where it is went wrong. And with the laws on information on employees.... bingo, fast hit.

Okay... I will see tomorrow where this discusion went too.... bed time for me.

Morwen.

btw, all of you complaining that the location part of this verification will be inherently gameable - it's not as simple as typing in the country of your choice. You IP address will, in 99% of cases, reveal your location down to the city. For location at least, it is simply a question of whether you give permission for LL to use this IP data to extract a physical location.

I am curious how they plan to verify age though.

I would assume the age thing would require a cc or paypal account.........maybe some outside source such as the old "verisign". But, if it is just whatever someone says then it's worthless.

Anyway all this would put the pressure on the the person providing the information should anything become necessary to "prove" it. LL would be more or less in the clear as would the persons needing the information for legal reasons or whatnot. It is a slim line of protection for everyone except the one lying. And that is better than nothing at all.

That's been my argument all along..........a system that provides a way of "verifying" what is needed is a welcome thing in my eyes. Anyone opting out of the choice to will remain in a somewhat less than trusted catagory for me. And if the new system does nothing but ask for age with no checks then I guess there is no improvement at all. But, most of the time a cc will "prove" age..........you need to be legally responsible for the bills incurred on the card and that is 18 yrs or older in the US. If it's daddy's card then that's a big hole.....but the onus is still on the liar. Not LL, the business in question, not me.