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This has gone too far.

Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
09-14-2006 03:48
From: Brent Linden
I guess the easiest way to respond to this is in a list format, since there is a list of complaints I'll list some ways to remedy them, and also lay blame to the systems that are causing your woes. Please keep the watermelon guns to yourselves, people and accept my apologies for the problems you're facing.

Packet Loss
This can be caused by a few things: the first, is our World Map. As much as we hate to say it, our map eats bandwidth like its in the finals for a hot dog eating contest. Work is currently underway on making the map not suck up your bandwidth.

The second, is your Maximum Bandwidth slider in Edit > Preferences > Network > Maximum Bandwidth. Start at 300kbps (most cable connections) and lower it if you see lots of non-map-related packet loss. Raise it if you don't see any packet loss and find that the world is loading too slow. (paraphrased from a notecard by Kex Godel)

A third cause of packet loss is higher than usual network traffic. If you are in a region with lots of avatars and/or lots of active/scripted objects sending updates you'll see this kind of packet loss. Remember that the simulator not only has to send updates to you but to everyone else in the region (as well as communicate with the 4 regions it is adjacent to).When those updates go over the top, some packet loss will occur.

Friends List and Presence Problems
The Friends List has been having problems for a while now. We are working on it but it's "not trivial to fix" (my least favorite LL'ism). The Friends Online page on our website is hit the most and contributes to the pain. In an effort to alleviate the symptoms we've started disabling that page when presence issues rear their ugly heads. A number of projects have resources dedicated to them to solve this problem and we hope to have it out before 1.12.2.

Crash While Building
This one I'm not familiar with this one (only one that was reported which indicates that when dropping an attachment you are editing your viewer will crash, which I am unable to reproduce). If you have a repro please send it to me via IM inworld.

Database Stability
We have projects underway to increase the strength of our backbone and database. We also have been doing work to reduce the strain on the database by changing back-end mechanics for storing avatar textures for improved performance and robustness (today's release). As far as data security, we are reviewing what we should and should not store in the databases with a strong sensitivity to the privacy of our Residents.

Texture Overlapping
As others have mentioned, uploading an image without an alpha layer but as a TGA file will cause it to be alpha-sorted as an alpha texture. This can cause the see-through textures you are experiencing. When uploading textures its always best to upload 24-bit TGA's unless you really put an alpha layer in the image. I've talked to the engineers in this department and they say that we check for "all-white" alpha layers and discard them on upload now. Unfortunately, this doesn't fix textures that already exist inworld. If they are truly freebie textures you should be able to download them (open the texture in your Inventory and choose File > Save Texture As...). Re-save them as 24-bit TGA's and re-upload them and you shouldn't have a problem anymore.

I hope this helps. If you have further questions please let me know.

I just wana say thank you for clearing all this up. Your apology is not needed for me but i accept it anyway. I've understood how to battle the system for quite some time now hehe. Trial and error was my way to go, till i got it right. :)
_____________________
Garde Burrel
Registered User
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 10
09-14-2006 04:49
saving textures?? has ANYONE gotten this to work? or is it just me?

At first, I thought maybe it was the texture I was trying it with - so I checked the properties...copy, ok....mod, ok....trans, ok....well, it's not MY texture, so maybe THATS the problem, so I tried a texture that I made and uploaded myself - highlight - file - save as is blacked out... amd I doing something wrong here?

and I didn't see anyone mention it, but after 4 pages, I started skipping a few.. but the "attach to" is not working at all in this "update".

and I agree with the others who have said the same thing - I build my computers myself - I don't trust the proprietary systems when I see them come in from the factory with spyware ON them when you unpack them (yes, I've seen it on two different companies systems that I have set up for people) - and my computer runs Call of Duty 2 ONLINE at full graphics with not so much as a hiccup (for those who don't know this game, it has one level on the single player that wont even LOAD if you computer won't handle it - and I played that one at full graphics settings) - but SL makes my monster act like it's a commodore 64 trying to run SL - it is DEFINATELY NOT the systems in all cases.
ninjafoo Ng
Just me :)
Join date: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 713
09-14-2006 05:36
From: Brent Linden
Packet Loss
This can be caused by a few things: the first, is our World Map. As much as we hate to say it, our map eats bandwidth like its in the finals for a hot dog eating contest. Work is currently underway on making the map not suck up your bandwidth.


I'm sorry Brent, but even the official Linden blog supports us on this - the current release features extreme packet loss.

We tried to hold the weekly LUG meeting last night when the grid came up, the topic of conversation wasn't all the wonderful bug fixes Tofu Linden has worked so hard on, it was the 30-50% packet loss everyone at the meeting experienced - we even moved to another sim only to find it worse! (ppl were running windows client native, windows client with wine & cedega and the Linux native client - consistant extreme packet loss).

Most of us gave up early in the end.
_____________________
FooRoo : clothes,bdsm,cages,houses & scripts

QAvimator (Linux, MacOS X & Windows) : http://qavimator.org/
Maggie McArdle
FIOS hates puppies
Join date: 8 May 2006
Posts: 2,855
09-14-2006 09:41
From: Brent Linden
I guess the easiest way to respond to this is in a list format, since there is a list of complaints I'll list some ways to remedy them, and also lay blame to the systems that are causing your woes. Please keep the watermelon guns to yourselves, people and accept my apologies for the problems you're facing.

Packet Loss
This can be caused by a few things: the first, is our World Map. As much as we hate to say it, our map eats bandwidth like its in the finals for a hot dog eating contest. Work is currently underway on making the map not suck up your bandwidth.

The second, is your Maximum Bandwidth slider in Edit > Preferences > Network > Maximum Bandwidth. Start at 300kbps (most cable connections) and lower it if you see lots of non-map-related packet loss. Raise it if you don't see any packet loss and find that the world is loading too slow. (paraphrased from a notecard by Kex Godel)

A third cause of packet loss is higher than usual network traffic. If you are in a region with lots of avatars and/or lots of active/scripted objects sending updates you'll see this kind of packet loss. Remember that the simulator not only has to send updates to you but to everyone else in the region (as well as communicate with the 4 regions it is adjacent to).When those updates go over the top, some packet loss will occur.

Friends List and Presence Problems
The Friends List has been having problems for a while now. We are working on it but it's "not trivial to fix" (my least favorite LL'ism). The Friends Online page on our website is hit the most and contributes to the pain. In an effort to alleviate the symptoms we've started disabling that page when presence issues rear their ugly heads. A number of projects have resources dedicated to them to solve this problem and we hope to have it out before 1.12.2.

Crash While Building
This one I'm not familiar with this one (only one that was reported which indicates that when dropping an attachment you are editing your viewer will crash, which I am unable to reproduce). If you have a repro please send it to me via IM inworld.

Database Stability
We have projects underway to increase the strength of our backbone and database. We also have been doing work to reduce the strain on the database by changing back-end mechanics for storing avatar textures for improved performance and robustness (today's release). As far as data security, we are reviewing what we should and should not store in the databases with a strong sensitivity to the privacy of our Residents.

Texture Overlapping
As others have mentioned, uploading an image without an alpha layer but as a TGA file will cause it to be alpha-sorted as an alpha texture. This can cause the see-through textures you are experiencing. When uploading textures its always best to upload 24-bit TGA's unless you really put an alpha layer in the image. I've talked to the engineers in this department and they say that we check for "all-white" alpha layers and discard them on upload now. Unfortunately, this doesn't fix textures that already exist inworld. If they are truly freebie textures you should be able to download them (open the texture in your Inventory and choose File > Save Texture As...). Re-save them as 24-bit TGA's and re-upload them and you shouldn't have a problem anymore.

I hope this helps. If you have further questions please let me know.









yes Brent we know you are sorry you are workin on it you are aware , now how about just FIXING IT instead of comin out with new upgrades and viewers JUST FIX IT, please
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-14-2006 12:01
From: ninjafoo Ng
We tried to hold the weekly LUG meeting last night when the grid came up, the topic of conversation wasn't all the wonderful bug fixes Tofu Linden has worked so hard on, it was the 30-50% packet loss everyone at the meeting experienced - we even moved to another sim only to find it worse! (ppl were running windows client native, windows client with wine & cedega and the Linux native client - consistant extreme packet loss).
I've been seeing continuous high packet loss as reported by the client, but I haven't been having slow rezzing textures, missing ground textures, editing problems, or chat problems. I'm wondering if the high packet loss we're seeing now is more a matter of SL doing a better job of monitoring and recovering from packet loss rather than there actually being more packets falling on the ground.

(I still think they should use TCP for bulk transfers, though)
Myiasia Wallaby
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 79
Grrr!
09-14-2006 13:18
I've got a few more things to add to this - just since the update earlier, I've now noticed my windows don't keep their sizing (closing IM window tabs, for example, defaults the IM windows' size), they aren't remembering their positions, there seems to be a focus issue when editing things that shows its ugly face only when it feels like it, 'cause I can't get it to do it when I want it to.

I'll add my two cents to the friends list thing, too. That's REALLY annoying, especially since I've learned it doesn't include only those people on your friends list. I tried to IM someone the other day that purchased something from one of my vendors. The Search said he was online, but when I IM'd him, "User not online". "Message stored". Will be sent later, it says. HE NEVER GOT THE MESSAGE!

Lastly, yes. I agree with the majority of the others here. Only I'm actually on the brink of just leaving SecondLife _for good_. If you guys (Lindens) don't stop adding new stuff before you get through fixing what's already broken, I get the feeling I'm not the only one that's gonna leave. And I won't leave calmly.

I paid for this before it went free, and I'm beginning to feel like that was a mistake. I spend alot of time and effort in-game trying to enjoy myself, but there's always some kind of looming bug that makes people not want to do something or use a specific feature. I'm starting to feel like I've wasted more time and money than it's worth.

P.S; I'm usually patient with developers, developing games and bugs. I, myself, am a programmer (to a degree, mostly PASCAL/Delphi), so I know about bugs and displeased customers (again, to a degree). But, y'know, there's a time when things go too far, where the developers start looking too lazy to its target customers, and it looks like this is about to get to that point... if it hasn't already.
Markubis Brentano
Hi...YAH!!
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 836
ooOOOooo
09-14-2006 13:45
Packet loss is gone!!!
Well, except for when I flew at high rates of speed through some trees. hehe
Although I was trying top provoke packet loss at that point. :-)

The only problem I have now is the ground in my SIM is not turning green. It stays brown except for the patch of ground that my avatar was next to when I rezzed into SL.

I rebooted SL a couple of times but it stays the same. I checked out other SIMs next to mine (Masan) but they are similar....one patch of green grass (about 10m x 10m) andthe rest is brown.


but hey! ...the packet loss is gone....progress is always a good thing. :-)
Garde Burrel
Registered User
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 10
09-14-2006 14:53
Yup, we live in a barren wasteland now...

Attachment points don't work....

copy - paste in inventory doesn't work...

copy to inventory when you open boxes doesn't work...

even the "save as" that Phillip talks about doesn't work....

nice "update". I'm of the tendancy to agree, I'm getting pretty tired of "updates" that break more than they fix as well, and I'M a paying user too - in fact, I spend a LOT on SL every month. Yeah, the packet loss is gone, but lets weigh that against the things that this update left broken, weak security with our financial information, databases that can't seem to stay working...this whole update was a mistake. Seems to me that I saw an announcement that said that updates would be less frequent so that they can be sure that things were working when an update came out - what a good plan! Too bad implementation of that plan is just a pipe dream...
Myiasia Wallaby
Registered User
Join date: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 79
Insulted!
09-14-2006 21:03
Okay, I hate to sound rude and what-not, but I just got insulted by one Adam Linden (albeit in a passive fashion). I'm fed up with SL, and I think I'm about to take my business elsewhere, like to another game that's much less piss-poorly run. I complain about someone's stupid-arse "home security" system that teleports me home, out of my ship, as I'm exploring the mainland. What do I get told?

"There are places for airplanes and cars"
"They're near the sandboxes"


... what, so I'm supposed to get stuck to extremely limited locations when the WHOLE POINT of making vehicles such as mine is to EXPLORE THE WORLD?! Gads! I'm SERIOUSLY about to either push for some action with more than just words, or I might just go contacting someone like the BBB. Psh, "It's your world", says the catch phrase. Well, frankly, my second life is starting to blow harder than my first!
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
09-14-2006 23:11
A few of my friends have left the world.......OMG this is worse then many have believed. I just don`t know after the password breakin and the all the bugs resently OMG who knows anymore :(
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
09-15-2006 05:58
Got on briefly last night... it was OK, didn't see any packet loss problems anywhere. Haven't been on this morning but I got a friend to check and apparently the latest "optional" client update's bringing big texture problems, but packet loss is showing 0. Did they just disable the packet loss meter to shut people up?
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
09-15-2006 06:13
Well its not business time on sl. So the stress is not as gret. Pocket loss is less and it does seem stable. But hten again not many people in world at the moment. Lets hope it continues....
Aleksie Solvang
nani?
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 113
09-15-2006 06:47
Yep, I'm having the same problems you are all having, major packet loss, friends list not working, crashing all the time for reasons I don't understand, ect.. SL used to be just a little laggy and the challenge was in creation, ect. - now the challenge is just excisting, wtf is going on over there?
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
09-15-2006 07:15
From: Aleksie Solvang
Yep, I'm having the same problems you are all having, major packet loss, friends list not working, crashing all the time for reasons I don't understand, ect.. SL used to be just a little laggy and the challenge was in creation, ect. - now the challenge is just excisting, wtf is going on over there?


But now we are reach 10,000 online members...............Lag hit us i believe int 1.5 client .as some say.
9,000 members has caused very bad pocket loss for many....
The system has to breach some where right?!
_____________________
Never Quote People that have no idea what they refering to..It give them a false feeling the need for attention...
DBDigital Epsilon
Registered User
Join date: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 252
09-15-2006 09:34
From: Dianne Mechanique
I think this is probably correct.

As I posted earleir on another thread, all of my problems and most everyone elses started when they introduced culling and started to "optimise" the stream from the server. They simply don't know what they are doing in that respect from what I have heard. This optimisation is also the source of the texture offset problem that they refuse to admit even exists, and poor network performance is at the heart of the "pulse lag" problem they also don't talk about.

As to the culling though, why, ... when standing in a 10 metre cube house, the wall behind me should vanish when I am not facing it (even though it's less than 5 metres away and clearly part of my immediate millieu), is incomprehensible to me.

I know about culling, but that is just bad design, or bad culling design or whatever you want to call it. I am sick and tired of turning around too fast for the server in SF to send me the fourth wall of my house, when it really should already be in the gigabyte of space on my hard drive. That fourth wall is really just a couple of K of data, "culling" it serves no one in that situation and is simply a mistake in the algorythm.

I apologise to Brent for over-reacting on his stupid remarks earlier, but they were stupid remarks. The Lindens give us darn little information as it is, so if one of them is going to post to the forum it could at least be someone hwo has some "people skills," someone who is actually good at communicating to people and has the actual facts at hand.

Despite the seeming attempt at communication, if you read Brents remarks closely you can see that we still don't have an answer to many of the questions posed and despite the (finally!) inclusion of one "sorry" and one "apologise," it still reads to me like the words of someone who is sidestepping the responsibility for the problems.

LL's quality control is really quite bad. Obviously so.

Someone posted on another thread five clear bugs in the UI that they noticed in the ten minutes they were online today. These bugs are not related to "going live" on the server as Brent intimates. They are just stupid obvious bugs and glitches that any decent software developer would see in a flash.

What about the recent update that was "all about the UI" where ten or fifteen major bugs in the UI were discovered by users literally minutes after it went live? They simply are not testing enough and probably do not have an actual, rigorous testing program in place is my guess.

Given their well known insane management style of letting the developers "pick their own problems", they likely let the developers tell them when things are "ready to go" too, instead of doing the obvious thing which is get a second (or third) party to test it first.

MIC-KEY-MOUSE!



Yes I also started to have texture and object issues after culling was added. Never had a problem before that (well there was for a while but it was due to general sim lag). But now I get the texture problems of texture not rezing or derezing right even after I put my pointer on it, sometimes it is better if I log out and back in, but not always. Trees look like a blob most of the time if I have been loged in for any legth of time. The strange thing is sometimes it is great and all the textures rez and stay rezed by themselves. Nothing changes on this end and I am not experence any sim lag and if I put my pointer on a texture it loads in a second or less. Sometimes it does not want to stay though and derezes becomming blurry again. At that point a relog usually fixes the problem (if there are not any other issues at the time).

I also have had packet loss since culing was added (or there abouts). And have reported it numerous times. And the general thought was "it is my ISP" however I don't get packet loss with anything else. Now though since the last patch I have almost 0 packet loss .01 at the moment. For the first time since May or so. So this has been a issue for some time and LL was not willing to acknowledge the problem could be on their end.

Sadly this did not fix the blurry texture issue for me.

-DB
Margot Abattoir
Senior Member
Join date: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 234
Adam Linden? Heya Myiasia..:))
09-15-2006 10:24
Adam Linden can be a bit trigger happy at times. When I persisted (in LL employee vernacular/harrassment) , in civil tongue, upon getting an SL issue looked into, (200 plus prims not my own on my land...an hour before a class I was to give) he clicked on my acount and banned it (according to the popup I got, after I thought I'd crashed) until morning of the next day.

Well, couldn't wait that long to get on due to the class..and wanting a resolution to the prim return thing before it. Soooo, my cuz sat down at his alienmetal, plunked on a pair of wings and IM'd him to apprise the Linden Lab employee that 'IF' he were involved in the banning that may not have been a wise decision on his part. Five minutes later, I was back in. Not a good thing to say for Adam's backbone status, either way, And definitely not a good thing to know that he's not learned his customer service lesson very well:(

He's an overworked techie, I suppose. Probably left over from the dot.com bombings, in need of a meaningful job. Which his is. Just has to remember to take his Haldol on his own recognaissance. Just copy and past his convo or a notecard of his behavior and send it in MULTIPLE copies to Phillip Linden or Phil Rosedale at Linden Lab. I'm sure he/Phillip knows nothing about it....
CaveCub Milk
Registered User
Join date: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 36
09-15-2006 11:54
Margot, have a gander at Adam's less than friendly support in response to a question I was asking for a friend. It's the second post on the page. :mad:

/142/99/137268/1.html
Margot Abattoir
Senior Member
Join date: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 234
Trust according to Adam Linden...
09-15-2006 14:07
means really knowing a situation. Eh. He stumbled on his words. He had a good college try type of thing going for himself for a bit there :)

LL reps always say that their company is doing something no company/no one has ever tried before. And so, the game and customer service stuttering is to be accepted and understood. Well. I don't trust them. They don't know the situation....

They are doing something no one or company has ever done before, quite as they do it. Having an elegant virtual world created by its customer base, without theme restrictions, and with the aspect of real life monetizing of those creations. It's such a different product that their client base/customers is a bit different as well. They're demanding. Very demanding. After all, it's THEIR world, THEIR imagination. Not wholly true, but truer to a greater extent than in any other virtual world venue. Because the key words here are 'owned creations'.

In this venue where the customer or user can monetize their creations, they give more to the 'game', the venue, to the Linden Lab company, by default, as they use SL, than anyone can give to any other service provider/online game out there. In content creation. In concretely expanding on the possibilities that the company product, this venue, has to offer. By innovative building/design techniques to inventing games to bridging the gap of rl/sl work, whether individual or institutional. All of this enhances the company profile, attractiveness...and bottom line.

SL's customers know this. Or figure it out fairly quickly.

SL has a lousy customer service department, but it's better than that of any other online virtual world, one LL rep stated. True. But it has to be better. SL is 'better' because it's an online land of wider opportunity. Their customers are 'better' because they add more value to the company than in any other online venue. They're 'better' than any other online game customers, simply because, by 'game rules' they are allowed to be.

Helping those customers ADD to the company value is the thing. With a 'better'/larger/more savvy customer service and engineering staff.
Selena Granville
Registered User
Join date: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 10
I am getting angrier by hours
09-16-2006 10:12
Hello all, here is my problem... I get I am going into a nervous breakdown soon if no one wants to help. I wrote to linden and used livehelp but nothing seems to interest them. I am getting upset and frustrated.


For two weeks now I have the most awful problems ever lived in SL. Lots
of bugs and problems. At the beginning I believed it was my internet
connection.

Quickly I tested all with many tests, and my Internet seems healthy and
very fast. I have the latests drivers and more that required hardware.

I have lots of issues such as ;

Very often, I just see the line of the horizon, and nothing else. (I
don't see the money I have, the place I am at...) This is really the
worst I can have 5/10 times.

When all is "little better" here are my problems :
*I don't see my friends online
*I don't see their chat 1/3 sentences at the best caze and I don't see mine... cool hehe ?
*When I IM I don't see my name
*I don't see IMs fully either
*My inventory takes forever to add stuff one by one but not in everycaze... over than 12 000 items... good ?!
*Nothing rez around me
*when it rez a little if I sit down a poseball it sends me in the
middle of a strange texture where I don't see anything and writes in the
location 10.10.10...

I have checked my hardware and I have more than required. I would like
answers, advices, and more, help. Maybe support cause I feel I am turning insane.

I am not willing to leave sl at all, I have a business, friends and I
am creative so I want to improve all I already can do. I wanted to buy a
very large plot (16 000sq m) and today I wonder if it is a good idea. I ahve this
issue for couple of weeks now and feel lost. It is terribly frustrating.
I am LOSING TRUST in sl.

I am ready to try it all, whatever you advise me. I have tried to
uninstall and install again the games for few times. I need your help, it is
just awful.

Please if you Linden read this help...
I maybe don't spend thousands of dollars each months, but kinda hundreds is enough to have nothing bad as a support...

Please, and I repeat what is already told.
Fix the problems instead of offering us some new features.
We won't be mad at you LL

I have 6 months old and I lose my hope and trust in SL. I don't even remember the best times so much these last weeks kill me.

Sweetly anyway...

Selena Granville
:[
:[


I forgot : I don't see anything in Search tab all is grey and when I can get my friend list I all is grey too :(!
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
04-10-2007 02:06
From: Margot Abattoir
The last time I heard anyone say what Shiney just did it came from Lee Linden:)

Sorry, folks. It's NOT your pc. It's Linden Lab.

I have a pc that can start WW III..more honking than Alienware's bestest. It cuts through the most difficult and demanding games and programs like a hot knife through butter.
.


Maybe you either paid too much for it or your ISP is still twisting phone wires together on it's network.

Because I too have no problems other than lag on my mid spec gaming machine in it's $30 case lacking Bling lighting, maybe it's the Sims you frequent, my"dodgy" original mainland sim puts many new Class 5's to shame for lag.
35k people on line and the worst thing I notice is I can only run 2 alts well instead of 3 simultaneously.
Teleports no problem, in and out of any sim first go.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-10-2007 09:19
From: Tegg Bode
Maybe you either paid too much for it or your ISP is still twisting phone wires together on it's network.

Because I too have no problems other than lag on my mid spec gaming machine in it's $30 case lacking Bling lighting, maybe it's the Sims you frequent, my"dodgy" original mainland sim puts many new Class 5's to shame for lag.
35k people on line and the worst thing I notice is I can only run 2 alts well instead of 3 simultaneously.
Teleports no problem, in and out of any sim first go.


Bad Thread necromancer! , BAD!

this threads been buried since LAST SEPTEMBER

BAD!

In fact the threads older than you are. LOL how do you know your computer wouldnt have had the same problems as hers last september?

In 2 years Ive had times of low lag, Ive had times of high lag. In the same place, doing similair things. Its usually related to how many people are online and/or if SL is in a crashing situation.

Someone let threads die after 3 months hehe, Strife! suggest it or something. Especially considering this is CURRENT version feedback Forum. LOL

"This has gone to far"
AWM Mars
Scarey Dude :¬)
Join date: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,398
04-12-2007 07:05
To create a programme as scaleable as SL, is no mean feat, to maintain the hardware to support all the various aspects for a game like sl is no mean feat... having been in SL for 3 years, I can't remember a time when lag wasn't an issue.. anyone remember tringo boards freezing halfway through a game and no one gets paid, or worse, the wrong ppls get paid? Unable to TP, clothes not rezzing, chat lag, crossing sim lines effortlessly (not)?

I think whats angering many ppls here is the enormous amount of expotential business that SL supports now, moreso than ever and it grows by the minute. If you can't get to your business or do anything when you are there, your customers can't get to you etc.. all these things make for an unpleasant experience.

Take a company like Microsoft, been around for years.. poured out numerous 'The most stable, future proof version ever... but make sure you log in daily to get your dose of 15+mb's of updates, or better still, allow us to hide it from you with auto updates' features. Plonk on top of that platform alone, a developing programme like SL, with demands for more functionality and 'completeness' in its use, give that programme open doors to pour in millions of textures, scripts, objects, create on the fly anything your imagination wants to create.

LL released the client as open source quite a few months ago now, has anyone done anything with it? NO.
They did that for a reason, to let people/companies/organisations have the ability to create 'better' versions, leaving LL to deal with the server issues. Never happened.

Anyone here actually believe that 9USD a month will support and finance the full growth of SL as we would all like it? Whats really wrong here, is the lack of funding, no one is to blame, maybe too late to correct (BTW when I joinned I paid for a lifetime membership). How many other online games only charge 9USD's a month and offer the opportunity to generate a living, or give everyone the vast scope of freedom to be creative or have as many functions as SL? How many of those are bug free?

How many websites on the internet work flawlessly first time everytime... and they for the most part still use a language that was developed 20 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I don't excuse the way the programme is, or offer any excuses for LL, but offer a perspective of reality to this thread.

<ducks and awaits the onslaught of angered replies>
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Meade Paravane
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Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
04-12-2007 07:25
From: Colette Meiji
Bad Thread necromancer! , BAD!

I browsed through the first page or so then jumped here to the end. I didn't even notice that this thread was old until I saw this..
From: Usagi Musashi
But now we are reach 10,000 online members...............Lag hit us i believe int 1.5 client .as some say.
9,000 members has caused very bad pocket loss for many....
The system has to breach some where right?!

Heh.. Bad at 9k online at once..

Some things don't change, though. Still people complaining because they're having problems and asuming that everybody else is and still people saying that they're not having problems. /me continues to have troubles sometimes but, overall, be pretty happy with the way SL behaves.

From: AWM Mars
LL released the client as open source quite a few months ago now, has anyone done anything with it? NO.

Take a look around JIRA - a number of viewer bug fixes have been done by the community.
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AWM Mars
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Join date: 10 Apr 2004
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04-12-2007 07:50
From: Meade Paravane
Take a look around JIRA - a number of viewer bug fixes have been done by the community.


A few bug fixes wasnt what I meant.. not that I don't appreciate their enormous efforts... I mean the ability to create a full blown client version.
I have contacted quite a few RL developers, enquiring whether they are doing anything with the open source, and including a 'wish list'.. most replied it wasn't their job.. the few that were more positive were based on a business model whereby they would only be interested in creating a client for retail sale... any 'wish list' would have to be paid for at a very high rate.

I have suggested an 'enhancement' to their business model whereby sponsors would get involved to 'brand' the viewer (better to have a great client viewer for free with a few adds showing), than the current version(s). With all the functions available, even a 'google' type search bar linked to the internet would be a possibility!
I also suggested that each client version produced by companies/organisations/individuals could go through a 'validation' process whereby LL would have to pass it for 'general consumption', in much the same way Microsoft do for drivers, for a registration fee. This cost could be paid for by the sponsors and generate revenue for LL to support the game.

Sadly none were interested.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-12-2007 08:07
From: AWM Mars

Anyone here actually believe that 9USD a month will support and finance the full growth of SL as we would all like it? Whats really wrong here, is the lack of funding, no one is to blame, maybe too late to correct (BTW when I joinned I paid for a lifetime membership). How many other online games only charge 9USD's a month and offer the opportunity to generate a living, or give everyone the vast scope of freedom to be creative or have as many functions as SL? How many of those are bug free?



Since when is the 9$ a month premium membership their real income picture?

It looks more like this =>

(private island monthly fees + teir fees+ premium memberships+ Profits from land sales + skimming of linden X + any corporate monies going into SL)

I dont know if thats enough income to cover what you mention. They are hiring though , anyhow.

But the Premium memberships are only part of the picture is all I mean.
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