This has gone too far.

WAtch out Dianne some lindens just warn or banned you for remarks like this.........Its not like th eold days where people can voice their thoughts.

I'm seeing an obvious problem. Has nothing to do with the current bug list directly, but it's clear that there is something seriously out of whack at LL.

They have three major platforms to support for Client software (The mac client alone is over 170MB of data/code) a massive interconnected realtime server array with it's own custom code base, and datasets, that walks, talks, AND chews gum all at the same time and handles and INSANE amount of bandwidth....
Add to that a noisy, hyper-critical, clanny user base, and a significant fraction of users that represent a very real, hostile, threat to the stability of the platform. They do dumb things, deliberately malicious/exploitive things, and abuse the available resources.

I do think that it's a miracle any of it works at all!!!

I'm not a big fan of some of LLs policies, or how they address customer service issues, but give em credit for keeping this insane collection of hardware and software ... still in development, I might add, running.... It's a non-trivial problem... And the way I see it we are running on a barely beta platform... This stuff is NOT ready for prime-time, but here it is.... and we are all standing outside the gates of SL waiting for them to open so we can go ride Space-Mountain a gazzillion times before lunch

=B-)

To be fair to Brent,

1. he's a bug tester and is usually involved in things other than texture specifications. He was probably given some not specifically incorrect information, but rather some incomplete information.
   
2. he is technically correct in the fact that using .jpg format negates the issue of alphas entirely, and it may be easier for new users to remember to use a .jpg format rather than use a specific bit depth for a targa file.
   

Sorry, but I goofed in my post. I should have said 24-bit TGA's (which have no compression). I usually upload JPG's that have the quality slider up to 100%, so there is no (little?) loss. After my post I found out that we had updated the upload code to watch for 32-bit TGA's with an all-white (or, empty) alpha layer. The upload process discards it. My suggestion was for very old textures that exist in the system (from before this fix was deployed, which apparently was a while ago). Those textures will still exhibit this behavior and there isn't anything we can do to fix those old textures that are in use inworld.

It wasn't easy compiling all that information at the request of another Linden at the same time as trying to help get the grid online and smoketested. I am sorry my post was incorrect and will fix it.

As far as the bandwidth stuff is concerned: the viewer does try to modify the throttle on its own. You can see it throttle in the log (Client > Consoles > Debug Console). Usually it moves the needle up but it also can move the needle down. It'll only move the needle down if the viewer isn't getting a lot of stuff. If it is, it wants it all (to reduce packet loss -- which is probably not so smart of it :/ ). It doesn't know how fast your connection is (I think, but I can find out when everyone isn't in crisis mode), which is why we suggest you play with the bandwidth limiter yourself and find a level that works for you.

I do apologize for all the problems you all are facing. We do test the system but we aren't able to anticipate every system configuration out there, nor can we anticipate network conditions. The biggest problems seem to occur after we bring the main grid online, presumably because the preview grid just isn't big enough to catch the problems that seem glaring once they make it into production. We're working on ways to make this better.

Ok I can understand this But we get a large volume of beta testers during the times the preview is up. How can this be? I understand the lindens that do know what they are doing in the previews do understand and do fit problems. But we need to better insure the quility of the final live version of the client. I do also know there are times when people send in bug reports with information that seems odd and they still look at the condition and if its really a problem. But I feel LLabs should only focus on Important Big reports then some small and very useless ones which i seen in resent fixes. I laught at some of the bug fixs, some i which i never could reproduce in anyway. Omg why are people fixing things that are NOT broken and not fixing things at ARE! We need better ways to do these fixs.

I know that it's been said a million times, but I don't think that it's ever been actually tried:

Stop adding new things until you get the old things to work well. Just a suggestion. Again.

They are always trying to out do the next great vr game on the internet. I just wish get their HEAD(s) where the problems are and stop doing we are adding features to make the freebie accounts pick money trees faster and easyier! Get rid od money chairs!.........You solve 80% of the issues concerning lag in sims.

Money chairs are not the problem. The issue with packet loss started for me, after the clipping client went in. What I think has happened is before the clipping client went in, SL would send you all the data on thing in your draw distance, thus if you turned around it was already cached on your computer. With the new clipping, (and I'll admit i don't know how it works) I think that it's having to get that data from the server, causing a lot more information to be sent. I have Fiber to the Home, with a 15MB downstream, and I still get packet loss (only in SL) so I can handle the downstream from SL quite well. Anyways, thatss just my two cents, and I'll freely admit I have no idea how their clipping algorithm works.

Setting the "bandwidth slider" should be as obsolete as tuning your file system block size, tweaking the overscan parameters in your video driver, or setting the jumper switches on your serial card. There's things computers are really really good at, and small tight feedback loops to fine-tune things like this for near-optimal performance is one of those things.

The fact that you have to set the slider is a failure, not a feature.

I think this is probably correct.

As I posted earleir on another thread, all of my problems and most everyone elses started when they introduced culling and started to "optimise" the stream from the server. They simply don't know what they are doing in that respect from what I have heard. This optimisation is also the source of the texture offset problem that they refuse to admit even exists, and poor network performance is at the heart of the "pulse lag" problem they also don't talk about.

As to the culling though, why, ... when standing in a 10 metre cube house, the wall behind me should vanish when I am not facing it (even though it's less than 5 metres away and clearly part of my immediate millieu), is incomprehensible to me.

I know about culling, but that is just bad design, or bad culling design or whatever you want to call it. I am sick and tired of turning around too fast for the server in SF to send me the fourth wall of my house, when it really should already be in the gigabyte of space on my hard drive. That fourth wall is really just a couple of K of data, "culling" it serves no one in that situation and is simply a mistake in the algorythm.

I apologise to Brent for over-reacting on his stupid remarks earlier, but they were stupid remarks. The Lindens give us darn little information as it is, so if one of them is going to post to the forum it could at least be someone hwo has some "people skills," someone who is actually good at communicating to people and has the actual facts at hand.

Despite the seeming attempt at communication, if you read Brents remarks closely you can see that we still don't have an answer to many of the questions posed and despite the (finally!) inclusion of one "sorry" and one "apologise," it still reads to me like the words of someone who is sidestepping the responsibility for the problems.

LL's quality control is really quite bad. Obviously so.

Someone posted on another thread five clear bugs in the UI that they noticed in the ten minutes they were online today. These bugs are not related to "going live" on the server as Brent intimates. They are just stupid obvious bugs and glitches that any decent software developer would see in a flash.

What about the recent update that was "all about the UI" where ten or fifteen major bugs in the UI were discovered by users literally minutes after it went live? They simply are not testing enough and probably do not have an actual, rigorous testing program in place is my guess.

Given their well known insane management style of letting the developers "pick their own problems", they likely let the developers tell them when things are "ready to go" too, instead of doing the obvious thing which is get a second (or third) party to test it first.

MIC-KEY-MOUSE!

y
You failed to say that the client has a auto setup to best setting? What yu say might be true to some degree but really we need the slidders for those that don`t have Bw issues. I understand the in the USA and otehr locations BW is the issue. But where i am located its not at all. Grant you the client perf need to be redesigned thats a no brain thought.........But until then we have to do what we have...........

Are they even reading half of the reports that has any meat to them? Or are the only dealing with high paying users in the game?! I see more and more of a shift to the linden dealing with sim lag, pocketloss and other messyissues BUY YOUR OWN ISLAND AND LIVE HAPPY EVER AFTER.But for what i read these days thats not the case at all for island owners............

I have all those same issues Packet loss is flipn horrible lag is worse and worse and i could go on and on about issues but its pointless lindens could care aless. There programed to say no its not our fault its ur pc, ya right. If you want your issues taken care of offer cold hard large amounts of usd or jump in the pool with the rest of us and suffer, cause this will never change

Well cage that is true.........things will not change but like sl its a dream if it does.........

I've played SL for over a year and in that time it had gone down hill.

Patch 1.7 is my feeling the down fall of SL from that patch on SL has had Slow Rez, Pocket Loss, Lag, Crashing, and every patch has made SL that much worse. SL isn't getting better and I fear it never will.

They say they do so much but all I see if a lot of patches that they fail to test and fail to make anything better.

I do hope that Lindens does change and start REALLY fixing things and stop lieing to us and not fixing anything.

Thank you

Unhappy SL Builder

Although the problems are obvious undeniably I would like to take my Hat off to those true and real virtual Role Players that claim they have No Lag, No Packet Loss, No crashing, No object Loss.
We all stand to cheer your effort to make us all laugh in this time of anguish and fustration.
We all Know your full of it.

What makes be laugh now is th bog is reading the grid is slowy getting up.........I don`t understand the reason behind this bog concept...........another wastre LLabs resource

Don`t llok at me i having a hell of a problem when in game.......LOve the people that say i am running 60fps LOL.......

OK...all technical mumbo jumbo aside...and keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is Whiskified and frustrated at the 3rd wednesday night in a row that there has been grid downage...
WTF? Why is the grid down every wednesday night lately, even when there isn't a new version? What compensation will be given to those who have paid lindens to have wednesday events listed? (not myself personally, but friends)
Why is it that updates lately have caused downtiime, whereas in the past updates have not caused downtime other than the scheduled downtimes? WTF is going on? Should I be regretful that I renewed my SL subscription for another year in July? Is too much being taken on to improve that SL has bitten off more than it can chew at one time?
I'd rather have small updates that work than huge, overambitious updates that don't. I mean, I love SL and am playing practically every night...but holy crap! Let's get it back to being playable every night! I can't speak for everyone, but improving the game is meaningless if the game can't be played.
I hope that made sense....working on whiskey shot #15

strange they are now saying in the blog from hell about something about credit..............

[8:35 PM PDT/SLT] To clarify, logins are *not* open to Residents right now—the last few updates only apply if you’re already inworld, didn’t get kicked out, and want a safe place to stay. I’m paging through lots of windows right now keeping an eye on things. We’ll be sure to say when the grid is open for new logins; it’ll also indicate on our Grid Status page.

If you’re new here, a warm welcome to the Official Linden Blog. Sorry it couldn’t be a smoother time, but just keep reading down for what’s been going on today.

[8:33 PM PDT/SLT] Kelly also wanted me to share: what you can also do inworld is check Help menu > About Second Life. See where it says “simXXXX.agni.lindenlab.com”? If that number is under 1000, e.g., “sim965.agni.lindenlab.com”, it’s already been restarted.

[8:27 PM PDT/SLT] Reader mailbag: been getting good questions, from email and here on the blog too, about compensation for downtime. Yes, good news is we do have a policy. Please see: 6. “Under certain circumstances, you may receive service credit for unscheduled downtime.”

BWAAAHAHAHAHA

A VOICE FROM THE PAST BUDDY BOY!!

Where do you hide?!

Yeah, Deandra, but just call me "D"



Oh, right.. staying on topic.. um, yeah! Fix it!

Quoted for great justice!

Less shiney, please.

I'd rather have the release notes for the client show a long list of bugfixes and a short list of features than a long list of features and an even longer list of bugs.

Please....file this "Love Machine" crap in the round bin where it belongs and do your bleedin' jobs as programmers and FIX THE BLINKIN' THING!



Personally, I think SL jumped the shark at 1.10

Definitely accepted. The group messages are working again, many many thanks.

i swear hearing things liek this is going to make me vomit. This statement is not true... Are you only saying these things to stir up problems? SOunds like trolling to me. I have played SL for 2 years and have 3 computers in my house. I've had NUMOROUS issues with Sl that i dont have on any of my other MMOs. IT definatly is LL's side... To even tell me that my computer is the problem, meens you don't know much about what your talking about. I built all my computers from scratch and have 10 years experiance building them.