Is it just me - or do N'Burgers (current and ex) take themselves just a wee bit too seriously?
*shrug* I don't. I am usually sincere, but rarely do I deign to be serious.
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
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04-26-2006 16:48
Is it just me - or do N'Burgers (current and ex) take themselves just a wee bit too seriously? *shrug* I don't. I am usually sincere, but rarely do I deign to be serious. _____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff |
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
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04-26-2006 16:59
an indictment for a trial by jury should have been handed down. not a sentence. I was also hoping for a discussion on how to reconcile Linden "law" with N'burg law, as well as a consistent method of applying this reconciliation to SC members, citizens, and noncitizens. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Ravenous Dingo
Registered User
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 78
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04-26-2006 17:05
i think the whole thing is teh funny.
lolz |
Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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04-26-2006 17:16
You never did state how a "meeting" is not a trial even though it returns a conviction and sentence. Several people have asked this. ~Ulrika~ Only citizens get a trial by jury. It wasn't a conviction, it was a determination. The SC rightfully determined trouble makers shouldn't be allowed to buy land. I'll bet this is a precedence. |
Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
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04-26-2006 17:24
Only citizens get a trial by jury. It wasn't a conviction, it was a determination. The SC rightfully determined trouble makers shouldn't be allowed to buy land. I'll bet this is a precedence. Oh well, I'm fucked for ever getting land there. _____________________
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Chigger Macdonald
Second Life Resident
Join date: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 22
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04-26-2006 18:17
I've just got to say that all this fancy blah blah has been very effective in one way........ it's absolutely assured that I shall never step foot in this place, wherever it is. I think the drama has been total overkill on all sides.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
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04-26-2006 18:29
Only citizens get a trial by jury. What's interesting is that in N'burg a fair trial is being denied on the basis that the accused is a foreigner, yet the accused is nonetheless held accountable as a foreigner for violating the laws. Thus this precedent of which you speak is, that foreigners are subject to all of the laws and punishments but none of the judicial protection, such as trial by a jury of peers. What an ominous precedent! The remedy is to treat me either as a noncitizen subject to Linden "law" (which means I've done nothing wrong as I am a Linden-recognized moderator of the forum) or to treat me as a citizen and give me a fair trial with a jury of my peers. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
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04-26-2006 18:37
The remedy is to treat me either as a noncitizen subject to Linden "law" (which means I've done nothing wrong as I am a Linden-recognized moderator of the forum) or to treat me as a citizen and give me a fair trial with a jury of my peers. ~Ulrika~ You have no peers ![]() _____________________
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Ravenous Dingo
Registered User
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 78
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04-26-2006 19:38
There is no modern democracy on the planet that denies noncitizens the right to due process. Indeed, a foreigner who is detained for suspected crimes in RL will receive the benefit of a country's judicial system despite not being a citizen. wassup wit Gitmo then? enemy combatant and all that i think u might not be teh accurate. |
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
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04-26-2006 22:28
wassup wit Gitmo then? enemy combatant and all that This is very similar to what's happening in N'burg. It's depressing to think that the city government is engaging in politics similar to the Bush administration. ![]() ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Ravenous Dingo
Registered User
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 78
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04-26-2006 22:52
This is very similar to what's happening in N'burg. It's depressing to think that the city government is engaging in politics similar to the Bush administration. ![]() ~Ulrika~ its def. teh suck but thatz what happens when peeps get power. in any structure, sooner or later some1 gets teh big head and then u have something that is nuttin like it was envisioned by the founders. the easier it is to exercise teh power, the faster it gets corrupted. every time, without exception. so in a perverse way, ur experiment was a success. u have SL govt that works just like RL govt. |
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
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04-26-2006 22:58
its def. teh suck but thatz what happens when peeps get power. in any structure, sooner or later some1 gets teh big head and then u have something that is nuttin like it was envisioned by the founders. the easier it is to exercise teh power, the faster it gets corrupted. every time, without exception. so in a perverse way, ur experiment was a success. u have SL govt that works just like RL govt. ![]() ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Ravenous Dingo
Registered User
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 78
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04-26-2006 23:17
Excellent observations. You have the knack for concisely stating the truth. ![]() ~Ulrika~ ty. and u had a good idea ur downfall was ur idealism and faith in humanity maybe next time, embed democratic republic inside benevolant dictatorship with u as dictator whose only role is to enforce teh constitution thru absolute power tricky part will be keeping urself from getting teh big head and picking a successor who wont abuse teh power. |
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
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Posts: 6,382
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04-26-2006 23:50
ty. and u had a good idea ur downfall was ur idealism and faith in humanity maybe next time, embed democratic republic inside benevolant dictatorship with u as dictator whose only role is to enforce teh constitution thru absolute power tricky part will be keeping urself from getting teh big head and picking a successor who wont abuse teh power. ![]() ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
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Posts: 3,082
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04-27-2006 00:15
I just can't help but laugh and sigh about all of this. It's all a big silly game. In a world where there are all sorts of authentic instances of cruel and unusual punishment: torture, abuse, suffering... you are stomping your feet by feeling mistreated by the pretend government of a pretend country in a computer generated environment -- that, by the way, you abandoned. Perhaps you should stick to your guns and leave that door to SL closed, permanently, and focus on those things you deemed important: your family, your real life community. There are vital issues and injustices in the real world that you could be focusing your obvious passions on -- a whole lot of them right in your San Francisco backyard. This is a totally invalid argument, on the lines of 'it's only a game and if you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen'. Where have I heard that before? _____________________
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Selador Cellardoor
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04-27-2006 00:18
I just served on a jury in which the defendant was sentenced to 15 years. I volunteer to be a juror. ![]() If I had been on a jury which had sentenced someone to fifteen years, I would be keeping quiet about it, not grinning like an idiot. I would be feeling very reflective, as would, I imagine, most decent people. Is yours the Christian response? _____________________
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Selador Cellardoor
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04-27-2006 00:23
It's like you're reading my mind! I've been thinking along those very lines just today, as a matter of fact. ![]() ~Ulrika~ Or else setting up a form of government with a genuine system of scrutiny, so that this kind of thing is very unlikely to happen. _____________________
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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04-27-2006 04:57
If I had been on a jury which had sentenced someone to fifteen years, I would be keeping quiet about it, not grinning like an idiot. I would be feeling very reflective, as would, I imagine, most decent people. Is yours the Christian response? You would rather a convicted felon, guilty of heinous crimes against the weak, be released? Really, I don't care for your judgemental attitude, but we are all welcome to our own opinion. So please, carry on. |
Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
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04-27-2006 05:37
You would rather a convicted felon, guilty of heinous crimes against the weak, be released? Really, I don't care for your judgemental attitude, but we are all welcome to our own opinion. So please, carry on. Ok - I will. Of course I didn't say or imply anything like your first sentence. It's not a very good debating technique to accuse your opponent of saying something he didn't say. Judgemental or not, it seemed to me that boasting of depriving a fellow human being of their liberty for a long period of time - whether or not they deserved it - is a rather unpleasant thing to do. I don't think most people would do it. I think most people, as I said, would be feeling somewhat reflective. That is why I asked whether this was an example of the Christian way. _____________________
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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04-27-2006 08:09
Ok - I will. Of course I didn't say or imply anything like your first sentence. It's not a very good debating technique to accuse your opponent of saying something he didn't say. Judgemental or not, it seemed to me that boasting of depriving a fellow human being of their liberty for a long period of time - whether or not they deserved it - is a rather unpleasant thing to do. I don't think most people would do it. I think most people, as I said, would be feeling somewhat reflective. That is why I asked whether this was an example of the Christian way. Well, I'm proud to have served on a jury, and to have been instrumental in putting a criminal where he belongs. The only part I regret is that the maximum sentence was 15 years. I would have rather seen him get 30 years. I was reflective during the trial. Afterwards we all ran out of the court room giving each other high-fives and thanking God we had the power to protect other women who would have been his future victims. BTW, why do you keep bring up Christ? Are you Christian? Do you think a Christian shouldn't be happy to have done the right thing? |
Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
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04-27-2006 09:58
Or else setting up a form of government with a genuine system of scrutiny, so that this kind of thing is very unlikely to happen. I thought that a meritocracy similar to the U.S. Judicial branch would provide this kind of protection but it has failed utterly. Individuals who displayed great intelligence, whom I thought would uphold law out of principle, instead have taken to creative and selective interpretations of law to exonerate themselves and others while doling out unusual punishment without a trial to others. How can one design a system that cannot be abused by individuals acting subjectively? ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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04-27-2006 10:27
Yes! But what kind of system would this be? I thought that a meritocracy similar to the U.S. Judicial branch would provide this kind of protection but it has failed utterly. Individuals who displayed great intelligence, whom I thought would uphold law out of principle, instead have taken to creative and selective interpretations of law to exonerate themselves and others while doling out unusual punishment without a trial to others. How can one design a system that cannot be abused by individuals acting subjectively? ~Ulrika~ The problem you created was to make a judicial branch that is self-selected. In the USA the president selects replacements to the court. Another problem was the vague controls on their power and ability to loosely interpret the founding documents and laws. If you truly wanted the SC to follow the intent of the documents you should have said that in the constitution. |
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
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Posts: 5,813
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04-27-2006 10:35
The problem you created was to make a judicial branch that is self-selected. In the USA the president selects replacements to the court. Another problem was the vague controls on their power and ability to loosely interpret the founding documents and laws. If you truly wanted the SC to follow the intent of the documents you should have said that in the constitution. Section 1 - The Scientific Council The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. Its service roll is to resolve citizen disputes and moderate user forums and events. It is not it's luxury to completely ignore the Constitution. In regards to the Philosophic branch: The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution. The RA can amend the constitution with a 2/3 vote. The RA can seek impeachment of members of the Philosophic branch by initiating an impeachment hearing. The leader of the RA sits as the leader of the Philosophic branch if the Philosophic branch seeks to impeach a member of the Artisanal branch. The Leader of the AC can seek impeachment of members of the Philosophic branch for failing to uphold the constitution. _____________________
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
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04-27-2006 10:38
Moved to Notices and Well Wishes. That's the last time we'll hear that! ![]() |
Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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04-27-2006 10:38
Section 1 - The Scientific Council The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. Its service roll is to resolve citizen disputes and moderate user forums and events. It is not it's luxury to completely ignore the Constitution. In regards to the Philosophic branch: The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution. The RA can amend the constitution with a 2/3 vote. The RA can seek impeachment of members of the Philosophic branch by initiating an impeachment hearing. The leader of the RA sits as the leader of the Philosophic branch if the Philosophic branch seeks to impeach a member of the Artisanal branch. Did you leave out the part that says the SC is not to interpret the documents literally on purpose? The Executive branch in the USA gets to choose the replacement, the senate gets to uphold that choice or reject it. |