people who rely on stipend recipients for business

i have a question for some of the people who claim to rely on stipend recepients for the majority of their sales.

if you are arguing in support of stipends for nonpaying members, does that you are admitting that people would not pay out of their pockets for your content?

if so, isn't improving your content a better solution then holding SL back?

no its saying that we don't expect people to use real world money for game gear that will go poof in an instant if LL decides to do so..

let me know when you figure out how to export all your items so you can use them and make them compatible with other things that are internet based and i might change my tune

also the reverse is true I wont' use real world money to buy other peoples content all for the same reasons its a game with fake currency not a job at least that is what its supposed to be

its posted a million times i don't see why its so hard to understand ...

oh well maybe you haven't played other online games where content is paid for with ingame money that you don't buy

But is SL being held back by stipends? Frankly, the L$ is dipping lower and lower with each cut LL makes. By the time premium account stipends are cut, the L$ will be 1000/1

I've had people pay me over my asking price because they liked what I had. My content is more of an luxerious item. If people are watching every last L$ then they won't splurge. Yes, what I sell isn't important but really what do you need in SL that isn't provided in your inventory when you're born?

Frankly, I don't ask where the L$ come from. All I know that stipends get the spending moving. And more spending means that someone will eventually buy my content.

Sure someone may make things for free on any online game, but companys pay their employees to make game content why is SL so different? I'm not sure what online game you are talking about or who makes the content, but there is a good chance if its a company employee they are getting paid to make the content you are buying with fake money. So why would a content creator in SL be different?
Sure people will make things for free, but they will not spend 20 hours or more a week doing it. The quality will also be for fun only.

you've played an online game where content creators aren't paid in USD for their efforts?

lets see in swg you made armour houses well everything was made by players, in lineage 2 everything is made by players those are two games with fixed memberships and no sim rental fees that are cheaper to play where players take things and make them.

Anyhow bottom line LL charges 10 bucks a month for the priviledge to pay more monthly fees for land rental to keep them running. People including me came to this game knowing i as not going to get paid to create a damned thing i came because my sense of fun is in creating objects and seeing what others do with the building blocks presented

Its unfair to turn around and demand that people either pay players a salary or some such nonsense. YOu entered into this game KNOWING you would not get paid at least i did

dammit i demand a salary now i am gonna get on that band wagon my stuff is starting to sell and i am getting positive ratings therefore i am a content creator PAY ME A SALARY PLEASE

how ridiculous is that? lol
omg people are becoming irrational

you purchased a game in which you make things for play money now that's not good enough you want real usd or even a salary

and here i thought peopel were having fun playing this i guess i was sadly mistaken something along the way has become incredibly corrupted for peopel to feel this way

From LL Terms of Service:

1.3 Content available in the Service may be provided by users of the Service, rather than by Linden Lab. Linden Lab and other parties have rights in their respective content, which you agree to respect.

You acknowledge that: (i) by using the Service you may have access to graphics, sound effects, music, video, audio, animation, text and other creative output (collectively, "Content", and (ii) Content may be provided under license by independent content providers, including contributions from other users of the Service (all such independent content providers, "Content Providers". Linden Lab does not pre-screen Content.

You acknowledge that Linden Lab and other Content Providers have rights in their respective Content under copyright and other applicable laws and treaty provisions, and that except as described in this Agreement, such rights are not licensed or otherwise transferred by mere use of the Service. You accept full responsibility and liability for your use of any Content in violation of any such rights. You agree that your creation of Content is not in any way based upon any expectation of compensation from Linden Lab.

Bolding mine. You and I both signed this. Linden Labs doesn't owe you any compensation. If you want some, go to work for a game company.

Just relax a little.....take a deep breath. I was just saying that its ok for content creators to get real dollars even though they aren't being paid by SL. If you want free content there is plenty of it in SL. So that should keep you happy enough if you don't want to spend any real cash.
If you want something that was worked on for 80 hours like a skin, then more than likely you will need out of pocket cash. If that same person who worked on the 80 hours skin didn't get anything out of it, then that person would not be selling it or making skins for other people of that quality.

why would you think i need out of pocket cash why can't i just save up for it and do you know i just spent two weeks writing a script and making a game i dont expect people to use their real world money for this i did it because i wanted to

is this hard to understand you are expecting people to HAVE to shell out money you think they should earn real world money for it they INCLUDING myself ARE NOT entitled to it

yes they worked hard but i would hope people do this stuff because they like to do it and because its fun not because someone is holding a gun to their head or trying to eek out a living from it

because ITS A GAME....

Frankly, I'm not against people making RL money from SL. If they can, more power to them.

What I'm against is the people who made poor financial and investment decisions wanting me to bail them out. They can read the TOS, they knew what they were getting into.

Ok its a game, but SL wouldn't be as large and full of content as it is if the most content creators weren't making something and thats a fact. SL even said they couldn't afford to pay enough employees to make as many things as there is in the game. Many content creators really don't make much of anything anyways except some gas money if that. So I don't know what the issue is.

Why not? People spend millions of dollars each year to buy currency, items, and accounts in all the major MMO games on the market. There are also risks (beyond breaking the games EULA) that you can run into. One might buy a sword in Everquest and the following week Sony might make a change to the game dynamics which makes that sword worthless.

Same thing applies here in SL.

A resideny may drop a wad of Lindens on a new scripted toy which suddenly "breaks" following a patch. In both cases there is some risk, and in both cases the consumer was enticed enough by the virtual item to drop some real world money on it. Why? For instant gratification of course. It will take much longer to save the "cash" needed for your item via camping chairs or killing owl-bears.

Wilhelm...

If you aren't willing to trade real value for something, then you didn't really want it anyway.

Otherwise, you've no doubt paid for tons of things that "went poof". My favorite example if going to see a movie. It doesn't get any less tangible than that.

Same as the movie, though - if you aren't interested in something in SL, then you don't have to pay anything for it. No one is holding a gun to your head to buy anything. But if you are interested in something - if you find it has some value to you, then you have to decide if it's worth the price to you. If it is, pay and be happy with your new toy.

If not, well, you don't get to have it and the seller doesn't get to have your money.

If the seller is charging too much then they will have to lower thier price or have thier business fail - but mind you, if you think it's too much but a hundred others think the price is fine, well, the price isn't gonna change.

This is the basics of how the economy works so far as merchant and consumer goes.

Free stipends (that is the L$50, not the $500 premium) do not represent value, becasue they are free. You can not expect to be given everything in SL for free, even if you have to "save up" for one item at a time. There are plenty of items available for free, however, and many are of high quality - so if you really do not wish to spend any money on SL, then it is possible to do so without having the free stipend. So I'm not sure what it is you're finding worth complaining about.

By the way, no one says you have to buy anything. SL is pure luxury and we all understand that - it means you are in total control of your buying or not buying choices. The claim that there is an expectation that anyone has to buy anything just a red herring so many yank out of thier pocket when they are asking folks to give away thier hard work for free.

yes its also a bannable offense because it ruins an economy i also never have and never will because its not worth it

The contents ingame have an entertainment value. In RL, you also pay for some entertainment activities.

i pay for a membership which entitles me to a 500 a week stipend and i earn my lindens in game as it should be if i can't earn it ingame and combine it with the stipend i wont buy it

i dont care if you want to profit or buy lindens with real world money but please don't impose it on my OR EXPECT me to do it because i wont and i think youwill find a great many people wont. Also dont expect me to bail you out because you are sinking a load or real world money into this game. lastly you should not expect to profit from it in IRL this is a misguided conception and has been pointed out is not somethign that LL guaranteed. Plus you signed up using the same TOS i did. I think its very neat that it can be done and i would not change that for the world however i'm not going to sink huge usd into this because its simply not a wise choice and again you really really should not expect me to buy lindens to buy your stuff its unfair and wrong


no one actualy "needs" anything in this game if you take the time you can learn to do it yourself by the way. Its a simple matter of seeing something neat someone else made and rewarding them for their efforts

I only ask that you not expect the community at large to take money out of pocket for you to pay for your stuff. That means leaving the stipends in place etc.

also i cant afford to take money out of pocket anyhow even though everyone thinks that is silly but a dollar is a dollar and in my case your dollar is like 2 of mine.. so umm yeah

you want to make money great its fine dont expect the player base to support you doing it though if you do by chance make money this is good as well i don't find it a bad thing but dont however try to force this buying of lindens down people's throats.

I dont give my "hard work" for free either but i dont expect people to take money out of their real world bank accounts on top of their membership to pay for it and so i am not over extending myself and sinking massive amounts of money in this game to do that. I make stuff its nice and i like it and other people like it and they pay their 200 lindens or so and walk away with it and are content.

On the other hand i also am letting someone who can't afford to maintain a premium account use one piece of property completely rent free. I put up the house and she has fun. The fact that she can remain in the game and enjoys the property is great to me it makes me happy. I dont ask her for lindens because she doesnt have any but wants to live in a house and i just happen to have one lying around that i was renting out to people for 150 a week in Clear



anyhow this is an endless debate and i dont think people get it so i kinda surrender go expect people to buy lindens or whatever lobby to your hearts content, demand compensation in a game where you are not entitled to it whatever its all peachy keen..

I guess you didn't really read my post, huh?

I'm curious though: Seeing as having a premium account is buying L$ with real world money... er... how do you reconcile that with saying that you won't buy L$ with real world money?

Yes, the premium account is buying L$ with RL money. Glad to see someone admitting it.

What Wilhelm is saying is that he prefers buying his L$ via stipend and content and he will not have his back put to the wall to buy more. Which you will find this attitude rampant in SL.

If you have L$ to sell and the market only bears 330L/1usd, then that's the way the ball bounces. Either hold and wait for a better price or sell at the price offered. If you feel you must raise your prices, don't whine when someone undercuts you.

Remember for every JK Rowling, there are thousands of authors who will never receive the money she has, if they receive any.

For every Tom Cruise, there are thousands of actors who will never make his status, if they get parts at all.

For every Donald Trump, that are thousands who have lost their shirts.

So for every Anshe Chung, there will be thousands who real estate businesses will fail.

That's just the way it is in business.

You know, I don't get why there's a rampant "attitude" at all. When the hell has anyone had thier back put to any wall? What total BS is that? This is a goddamn luxury economy. The power has ALWAYS been in the consumer's hands here.

I think the only thing sad about this situation is how so many are screaming "Yeah? Well TOO BAD!" at one another over nothing. People have let the rantings of a few polarize everyone over a non-issue.

I wrote what I did to Wilhelm as a matter-of-fact view of how economy works. Anyone who reads it will note that I understand where the power in that structure lies. In short, I was validating his view, I just didn't word it so it sounded like agreement unless you read carefully. Why? To prove that this isue has become a bunch of rabid pack animals going at one another long after the hyena left with the carcas.

Cripes and fiddles people. Chill out. SL is a flipping entertainment venue, not your right to flipping health care. If you don't care to spend, then don't spend. It's that easy. There's no guns to heads or backs to walls anywhere no matter what your view is on or where you stand in the SL economy - to claim there is, is unmitigated claptrap.

That's true. Too bad those who are trying to sell L$ don't see it that way.



You got me there.



It sounded like you were insulting him.



That's what I've been trying to explain to those who scream about the falling L$. People don't have to buy L$ and trying to force them to will just backfire.

Not true. I sell L$. Don't let a few very vocal nutters speak for everyone.
Then help change it.
Piffle. I don't insult with subtly.
I have to ask. Why is buying from the market something to be resisted? Where from does this "attitude" come from that such an expendature is to be opposed? I don't get that at all. Mind, since it's quite impossbile to put anyone's back against the wall, that won't cut it as an explanation.

Ok, I will try the best I can.

Many of the people who really get into SL are people who enjoy the open ended choices that it has. SL is what you make it to be. You can choose to stay the basic avi or deck yourself out in all sorts of ways. You can be homeless or buy an island for yourself. You can make your own clothing or buy what someone else has made. You can start a 24/7 business by yourself with very little overhead. Or you can hang in a sandbox and rez and delete boxes all day. If you want war games, plenty are around. If you want to have easy romance or cheap sex, well just find a willing partner. If you want to party in a virtual Vegas, hey plenty of that. You want to be your own sex, the opposite sex, or sexless, it's all good. Be a child, an adult, an elderly person, up to you. Infinite choices await.

People who enjoy this freedom are not the kind of people that take ultimatums well.

Everytime somebody says, "well, you should pay more for SL because other games make you pay for this and that," just irks them and makes them dig in their heels. They like the choice in SL of spending only what you want to spend; they won't give that up. They'll just uninstall SL.

Somebody who says, "you can afford a computer, internet, et and you can't afford to buy L$" comes off as whiny. No one really knows anybody else's RL financial situation unless they live with them in RL. You don't know if that person is a housewife who shares the computer w/ hubby and kids or a disabled person whose family has bought him the computer and pays his internet connection out of the kindness of their hearts.

Every cut seems like they are being pushed towards buying L$. You may not see it that way, but they do. They've spent time in this game and RL money. They've made friends and they've worked on stuff that they cannot remove from SL. They have invested as much in SL as someone who owns whole sims and rents the lands They don't want to be required to "need" this and that and buy L$ to support it because somebody has to make a profit. Especially if they are already paying LL.

"Somebody who says, "you can afford a computer, internet, et and you can't afford to buy L$" comes off as whiny."

That's addressed at me, I suppose.

Anyone who complains about their financial situation here is a selfish prat who doesn't know how good they have it. We're in a world where one in six people don't have clean water. ONE IN SIX! In this world, even your disabled person is wealthy; they have someone willing and capable of taking care of them.

I stand by my claim that anyone with a high-end computer and broadband internet access who claims they can't spare one or two dollars a month is lying lying lying, and anyone with such riches claiming they need handouts so they can play a computer game is a god-damn maggot. Welfare is for your essentials, not for your luxuries, and a computer game never has, and never will be, an essential.

And, closer to SL, the optional content inside sl will never be essential. You can happily play SL without ever having a single L$ to spend. Having L$ is a want, not a need, and nobody should claim they need a stipend.

Musuko.

But... they still spend $10usd of their real money to get their $500l aweek. They still pay real money for $L. How would that be different if some of that money went to Lindex instead of LL? There seems to be this weird stigma with certain people with using Lindex, even if they don't own land, and had the option to drop to basic and spend that $10us a month on more $L they than get off a stippend. Why is that?

Then I think they need to re-examine thier perceptions. I think they are reacting to something other than what a few are saying and taking attempts to readjust a failing economy awful personally. Like I have mentioned a couple of times now, it's simply not possible to force anything out of anyone.

I think they also need to ask why paying LL in any way recompenses anyone they bought things from. And I wonder if thier reaction might come from some sense that they are entitled to free entertainment at another's expense.

After all, I think if they simply were unable or unwilling to pay more than thier premium then they would not react so to the mere suggestion of stipend reducion. They'd know that's just how an economy waxes and wanes and they'd enjoy the freedom SL offers anyway - becasue that's not being changed at all.

I think they would consider, if they didn't own land, taking advantage of this weakened market by going back to a basic account and buying L$ with that 10 a month and end up witn even more than the stipend, allowing them yet more choices - they'd see this becasue they'd be comfortable with thier choices and feel no need to be unessesarily reactionary.

Or if they had land they would happily not buy anything from the exchange at all. Whether thier stipend was reduced on thier next premium renewal or it simply became worth less becasue of inflation wouldn't particularly bother them since they see the freedoms offered them in SL to save up, or build it themselves, or just not care and have fun with freinds.

They ultimately have the power in a luxury economy, so they can afford to be comfortable with thier choices.