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A Very Curious Economic Exercise

Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
02-16-2006 10:13
From: Gabe Lippmann
... If Desmond goes bankrupt and leaves SL, you will always have your tulip and that would actually help ensure no more Desmond Tulips made.
Therefore: Desmond should be BANNED!

(or weighs as much as a duck or is a witch or sumptin....)
Pelanor Eldrich
Let's make a deal...
Join date: 8 Feb 2006
Posts: 267
Enforcing Scarcity.
02-16-2006 10:19
Is there an auction mechanism (short of chat) that can be used in SL, or would a collector want to put them up for auction on SLExchange or Ebay? Can/Does eBay auction SL objects?

BTW Desmond, this is a Nobel prize winner of an idea. You've just invented SL collectibles and serious art trading. What I recommend you do is to notarize (Nota Bene) a bond in Neualtenburg saying you'll never produce another object with any of the defined 36 "tulip" object names ($L100) and will mediate disputes with the SL moderators, the aggrieved 3rd party paying court costs. Then, when we get it running, escrow some L$ (say $L990, periodically increasing/decreasing weekly to total tulip market value as time goes on) with a financial institution at Neualtenburg. SL mediation will be binding and can result in loss of all/portions of escrow.

Valuation of the tulip market will be agreed upon as value of last sold/auctioned tulip of type x on SL Exchange mulitplied by number of those tulips in SL. Add the types up and ensure that this escrow balance is held every week in N'Burg. Neualtenburg will release $L from escrow weekly to Desmond as the tulip market cools. These details need to be in the notarized "bond".

Ok, so what if Desmond can no longer afford the escrow? The market will likely max out at the escrow value + perceived aesthetic value + the perceived value Desmond places in his reputation. Maybe set the maximum escrow amount in the bond to protect the artist.

I also assume you're in this as an artist, not to make money. To make money with this mechanism, you must own other artist's works. Well this is an experiment, not a money maker for Desmond. Hmmm.

Here's the interesting thing with this scheme. Desmond's work will be much more valuable than mine, not simply because of aesthetic virtue, but because as a rich Avatar, he can afford a very large ($2M+) bond (hard max market value for the collection).

Now you have enforced scarcity. Far beyond reputation, we have a serious defaulting penalty here. Done. Let the collectible shops open far and wide and the yardsales begin!

What do you think?
Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
02-16-2006 10:58
I'll offer anyone 50 L$ per tulip if they can get me one.
Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
02-16-2006 11:00
Actually, let me revise that price.

I will pay anyone 1000 L$ / # of tulips produced.

So, 1000 L$ for the rare one, and 1000/36 L$ for the common variety.

edit: I guess this means that Desmond has a networth (in tulips) of 7000 L$
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-16-2006 11:39
Wah...

*loosens tie*

Ok, ah... where to begin.


1) Comment by Mr Nielsen - Mechanism for trading tulips - you are right!

So here you go: /244/fe/88655/1.html

...mainly because it is not appropriate for the Land and Economy forum.


2) Mr Lardner - Making more editions of tulips, like beanie babies... now that I've made my statement, I can't. I swore never to make another tulip. Seeing the response, perhaps that was a really, really stupid move? Ah well! But it's still fun. I make enough as is. :)


3) Ms Lament - Special packaging - ah, no, didn't think of it... they will simply be planted around outside.


4) Ms Lament again - Identifiable... yes, they are. If you are walking along and see a black tulip I've made... that's it! Though I like the idea of hiding the rarity.


5) Mr Case: "Michaelangelo of Tulips" I am not! I'm the first to admit. But I do think I made a pretty tulip! Eye of the beholder and all that.


6) Mr Lippman - Inherent value: one pretty, intangible tulip. Might look good in a garden? That's it.


7) Mr Lippman again - Tracking mechanism, yes. You know, I was working on this *elaborate* script that recorded the owner and location when they were placed out, and emailed it to an object in-world at West Trade. Then, I realised this object could be hacked. Gah. I gave up on the idea, and instead, am now relying on all of you.


8) Mr Lippman again - Tracking of other tulip sales... best I can think of is that forum thread? It's a good question.


9) Ms Petunia - Desmond BANNED!? *gulp*... er... yes, that ah... WOULD make the tulips more valuable I suppose... eep! Prepare your abuse reports now, after the first thousand I may as well go willingly... Yes, the tulips will be worth more I suppose when I am dead, happy now!? :)

*mumbles something about suffering required for true art*


10) Mr Eldrich - Ah, yes, bonding is a good idea for a true collectibles creator.

But- then *I* would be required to trust the people that hold the escrow! Ouch.

In addition, in this case... I'm doing this as a fun excercise. If it becomes commercial for me, it has no place in the Land and Economy forum. If it becomes too scientific, well, I reserved no research permission from the Company. Let's keep it light, fun, collaborative and informative - but not more.




I still haven't put any tulips out. People will have to wander around a bit to find them. (If anyone follows me around, no tulips will be forthcoming).

I'll post here whenever I set some out.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
02-16-2006 11:49
I like this one:)

Good idea:D
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Theo Lament
In Perpetua Designs
Join date: 30 May 2004
Posts: 68
02-16-2006 12:15
From: Desmond Shang

*4) Ms Lament again - Identifiable... yes, they are. If you are walking along and see a black tulip I've made... that's it! Though I like the idea of hiding the rarity.


Hide the rarity? Heck NO, you need to flash that around! Build up the spice of it all, make people want one too!

What I meant was something along the lines of when an artist creates prints of art work. If for instance there were to be 36 prints, the first print would be more expensive than print #36 of 36. Perhaps this is an moot point in the virtual world market? Other than tracking how many there are.

Regardless of how you package the tulip, I am VERY interested in what you have up your sleeve in regards to tracking these items, who has them, where might they be and are they up on display, and how much did they go for.

Because what good is it to own a “Desmond Shang Original”, if you can’t brag about it… and what good is bragging about it unless you have a group of people who like to check up on these things.

Is there a “Desmond Shang Registry” in the works?






P.S. Can we all get a preview of a tulip here in the forums?
Jeannedellalune Prudhomme
Late Blumer
Join date: 6 Nov 2005
Posts: 31
02-16-2006 12:28
i want one, no, i want several. i'll trade you my beanie babies
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
02-16-2006 12:39
I loved your "Gabo is coming" approach to pique interest. :D

I mean, I don't even want one, but I want one....or three!
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-16-2006 16:12
1) Re: Tracking, registry, what's up my sleeve and all that - not much. Too easy to hack the 'back end' - the object that recieves the reporting.

Besides, in spite of all the talk I doubt these tulips will get up to much $L value.

Tulip pictures are here: http://westtrade.250free.com/100tulips.jpg


2) My apologies for the melodramatic rollout. If I didn't do it slowly like this, I could see one early bird holding half of them.

And in full control of the rarity of breeds; the scent of crushed tulips rising up from a bootheel...






And... the first five are out!

Scattered widely, somewhere outside on the grounds of the West Trade Imports property in Alice.

The first five are:

Scarlet Passion Tulip, 1 of 36
Scarlet Passion Tulip, 2 of 36
Phantom White Tulip, 1 of 25
Phantom White Tulip, 2 of 25
Spirit of Flame Tulip, 1 of 15


Don't forget to 'take' it, because when you buy it you 'buy original' - no copy goes to your inventory.



If you get one, please please PLEASE mention the the variety and number on the "Tulip Exchange."

You can also place buy and sell orders there on little scraps of forum posts.

"TuleX" Tulip Exchange Trading Floor (forum thread):

/244/fe/88655/1.html
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Frank Lardner
Cultural Explorer
Join date: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 409
Think outside the tulip ...
02-16-2006 16:29
From: Desmond Shang
2) Mr Lardner - Making more editions of tulips, like beanie babies... now that I've made my statement, I can't. I swore never to make another tulip. Seeing the response, perhaps that was a really, really stupid move? Ah well! But it's still fun. I make enough as is. :)
Ah, Mr. Shang ... surely you've realized the investment potential in Original Desmond Shang daisies ... and petunias ... and peonies ... and, of course ... lupins. Just to begin.

Why, there is enough potential in your idea that the Metaverse Stock Exchange is undoubtedly going to open a Commodities Pit just to handle the trade in your flora! Surely the Worlds' Greatest Economic Mind can see the potential here and provide some IPO underwriting for Shang Originals Inc. (SOI?)

After all, it responds to the call for commodity-backed currency as the only way to defeat "socialism" from one of the other brilliant economic lecturers in another forum thread. Once your varied "denominations" of flora become as solid as gold, platinum or Swiss Francs as a store of value, LL can make the obvious transition to irrevocably tie the Linden to a specific number of kilobites of Shang Original Floral Arranged Bullion ("SOI Bull";).

Of course, if it fails, folks will take to calling it "SOI Bomb" and Bob Dylan will look at you funny but keep on playing as it is dragged off stage by Burly Security ("BS";).
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Garnet Psaltery
Walking on the Moon
Join date: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 913
02-16-2006 16:36
What jollity! :D
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-16-2006 16:42
From: Frank Lardner
Ah, Mr. Shang ... surely you've realized the investment potential in Original Desmond Shang daisies ... and petunias ... and peonies ... and, of course ... lupins. Just to begin. ...


I love it!

Yes, the thought crossed my mind. And some might realise a bit of class, restraint and taste shown by waiting until FIFTEEN Feb, and not doing roses.

But honestly, what gives me pause for thought is this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3063593.stm



Now, back to the Tulips at hand...


Edit: those first five tulips were picked in a heartbeat. I know who picked them from my Transaction History, but alas, I cannot name names.
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
02-16-2006 17:25
I went and looked but didn't find one.
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
02-16-2006 18:11
I'll give you the following for (1) Tulip:

• four tons of wheat
• eight tons of rye
• one bed
• four oxen
• eight pigs
• 12 sheep
• one suit of clothes
• two casks of wine
• four tons of beer
• two tons of butter
• 1,000 pounds of cheese
• one silver drinking cup.
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
02-16-2006 18:46
From: Desmond Shang

Edit: those first five tulips were picked in a heartbeat. I know who picked them from my Transaction History, but alas, I cannot name names.


Are there 5 or 7?
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
02-16-2006 20:19
From: Desmond Shang
Edit: those first five tulips were picked in a heartbeat. I know who picked them from my Transaction History, but alas, I cannot name names.
Yeah it was a cute idea but seems more lab rattish now than fun. Good luck with it all.
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-16-2006 21:07
My apologies to all, there were only five released that time if it wasn't clear.

The tulips are numbered; "2 of 36" meant that it was a single tulip, designated #2 of the 36 of its kind. I had no intention of wasting anyone's time.


Please bear with me, as I'm trying desperately not to make a mistake. Even just one tulip set to 'sell copies' instead of 'sell original' would do me in, so I'm triple-checking. And when I log in I normally have half a screenful of IM's from my usual customers.

Rest assured, if I see *anyone* around me there won't be any tulips forthcoming, or I'll instantly stop putting them out.

I'm trying to make it as fair as possible.

Re: 4 tons of wheat, &c... I'm honour-bound to release all 99 for $L 10 each, and I'm striving for fairness. Any bids must be taken to the Tulip Exchange; this is the Land and Economy forum and for abstract, weighty, intellectual discourse only.

Though I can see who first got them I can't name them, or "make" them reveal their holdings. I'm wondering if this is a huge flaw in the plan, but too late now.


And... the second FIVE are released! Once again, outside at West Trade Imports.

1) Name: Scarlet Passion Tulip, 3 of 36
2) Name: Phantom White Tulip, 3 of 25
3) Name: Phantom White Tulip, 4 of 25
4) Name: Spirit of Flame Tulip, 2 of 15
5) Name: Luscious Peach Tulip, 1 of 8

PLEASE reveal the variety and number on the TuleX trading floor. If you destroy one, as "sad" as that would be, please let the market know.

TuleX: /244/fe/88655/1.html


Edit: this round of tulips has all been found - they were found and purchased in maybe half an hour.

I was 'watched' by a couple of avatars earlier... waiting to swoop in and get them, so I waited until they went away before setting them out. I don't want to encourage that sort of thing. I certainly didn't expect that kind of behaviour!
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
02-16-2006 22:32
From: Khamon Fate
Yeah it was a cute idea but seems more lab rattish now than fun. Good luck with it all.


Sure but it's fun to be a rat sometimes :D
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-16-2006 23:17
And... the third FIVE are released. Once again, outside at West Trade Imports.

1) Name: Scarlet Passion Tulip, 4 of 36
2) Name: Scarlet Passion Tulip, 5 of 36
3) Name: Phantom White Tulip, 5 of 25
4) Name: Spirit of Flame Tulip, 3 of 15
5) Name: Precious Gold Tulip, 1 of 5

PLEASE reveal the variety and number on the TuleX trading floor. If you destroy one, as "sad" as that would be, please let the market know.

TuleX: /244/fe/88655/1.html

Lastly - I've watched the TuleX finally start going - might it be beneficial to put expiry dates or other 'stops' on offers? Just a thought, for clarity's sake.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
02-16-2006 23:29
I lurve the eclectic nature of things like this--and also, how Desmond and Frank were addressing each other so courteously earlier in the thread! :)
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-16-2006 23:37
From: Torley Linden
I lurve the eclectic nature of things like this--and also, how Desmond and Frank were addressing each other so courteously earlier in the thread! :)


Glad you enjoy it! Come tiptoe through the tulips yourself Torley!

Wouldn't something like this (but more sane) be fun at Infohubs?


Ah, and so people know - this last round of tulips were gone in 20 minutes!

I know who got a Precious Gold one, but I can't say... *whistles*
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
02-16-2006 23:40
Well, I think something like this, and even more insane! What I especially like is it's actually being done.

I'm coming, you're near my wife's place in Alice eh... it's all good. :)
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
02-16-2006 23:40
The tulip hunt is lots of fun :)

*whistles*
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
02-17-2006 02:48
Last little hint - I'm trying to cover a variety of time zones, but I got talking with some folk in the last few hours.

I can't really set tulips out when there is anyone present to buy it on the spot (that wouldn't be fair).

But I'm sensitive to when the releases are, and will do my best to balance "global tulip power". I can't be perfect though so please bear with me. :)
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