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Economy and the newbie2: a suggestion

Centinull Quatro
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 4
07-23-2005 18:32
Let me preface this with two statements, before I get onto my main point.
1.) I'm a n00b, been here less than a month
2.) I don't sell or resell anything, free or otherwise.

In My opinion there are 2 different mind sets here

1.) Newbies - are selling, anything they can, to make a linden. It's easy to do. While it will take months for them to learn to script anything usefull or to find how to etablish their own creations, selling is quick and easy. It is selling boot legs in sense, but this isn't the real world, so it's not crime, and they don't feel it's wrong.

2.) Oldies - are insulted that what they have payed their dues to earn/learn and possibly in their eyes are scoffed at by, in their oppinion, lazy leechers who haven't payed their dues that are profiting from copying their work. Oldies feel it's wrong to profit from what was meant to be given freely.

This, to me at least, closely resembles the music industry and File-sharing . Music industry and artists want complete controll over their works. Consumers just want the product and Bootlegers just profit from trafficing in it. Pirating music and movies online is easy to do, and no one who does it loses sleep over it. The record and music companies who make more money now than ever cry they are losing millions, but people who like what the download often go out and buy the actual product anyways. The product does get into the hands of some people who wouldn't have it otherwise, but it does actually drive sales as new people are exposed to it. Incidently artists like Eminem who have embraced thrive, and artists like Metallica who cry foul to anyone who listen have fallen out of favor with their fanbase. While this doesn't directly parrallel the situation in Second life I do believe it has simila reprecutions. Wether they payed 0$ or 10$, the amount is immaterial, they have your product. They have it and your genius is reflected in the fact that your profile is slapped onto everything you made, both parties should be happy. Wether or not they payed too much for something is entirely their responsibility.
Some of us are old enough to remember when Cabbage Patch Kids or Power Rangers were all the rage. People sold them for whatever they could get for them, quite often at 300% markup. If you bought it from them, you payed for the convenience of getting something you wanted then, without hunting it down elsewhere.

The online community in general thinks NOTHING of copying data. Music, Movies, Games, and books are traded daily online. The creations and money in this game are merely data.
Trading creations/data for money/data is something is just an extension of this behavior.
While you or I may not condone it, it's part of the current internet culture as a whole.

While I sympathise with the artists/creators of SL items anything you have to "let go" of aything you create and then release into the wilds. In this thread I have heard people complain about the "false sense of entitlement" Greedy n00bs have, while that may in fact be partially responsible, it may also be a "false sense of entitlement" the creators have that is the more prevalent problem. You can not control the destiny of something once it leaves your control. There are going to be those who are less skilled than you that may profit from a copy of your work. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. If everyone could create any item they wanted there wouldn't be a need for any items. If eveyone was self sufficient the economy would collapse.

This is not the real world this is a game world. I think some people have imprinted real world values into his enjoyment and gameplay. While I myslef have moral and social considerations while I play, I don't have the absurd belief that others should conform to my standards of play.

Second Life is thepretty much the "come here and do whatever you want game." Some talented people come here to build and create things, while others want to come here and make a buck, wether it be real or linden. There is no right or wrong way to play this game outside of the guidelines you cook up in your own head.

True Ingame Story: I bought a hoverboard for $50 Linden. I like my hoverboard. Two days later I got the same hoverboard out of a freebies box that some generous citizens had put together. While I wish I still had my 50 lindens, the concept that either Creator of the item or the person who sold me one where somehow responsible for their loss never entered my mind. I bought the first hoverboard I saw. I thought $50 Linden was a reasonable price. I thought about shopping around and decided, due to impatience, against it. I am responsible for my actions. I bear no malice to tho who sold it to me. I'll even still buy from the same vendor if I think the price is right. However, I learned my lesson about shopping around first.

"Let the Buyer Beware"
Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
07-23-2005 18:36
Actually I think that hoverboard is for sale at busy bens from a Linden, and is also availible for free from the telehubs. Pretty inconsistant when you think about it, but the creator is the one selling/giving it away in both instances so..
_____________________
I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
---------------
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---------------
Centinull Quatro
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 4
07-23-2005 18:38
From: Lordfly Digeridoo
You just defeated your own logic. Read below.

Ergo, the folks that hacked SL did not "steal", they merely obtained the scripts they normally wouldn't have access to, and then distributing it however they see fit. Hence, free market economics.

LF


While I do agree with your sentiment, Your logic in disproving his example is flawed.

The hackers copied something they were never intended to have acces to.

The Free Market Economists copied something they were given access to copy.
Centinull Quatro
Registered User
Join date: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 4
07-23-2005 18:42
From: Zapoteth Zaius
Actually I think that hoverboard is for sale at busy bens from a Linden, and is also availible for free from the telehubs. Pretty inconsistant when you think about it, but the creator is the one selling/giving it away in both instances so..


That is indeed where I purchased it.

Still my fault for paying too much.
Zapoteth Zaius
Is back
Join date: 14 Feb 2004
Posts: 5,634
07-23-2005 18:49
From: Centinull Quatro
That is indeed where I purchased it.

Still my fault for paying too much.


But it is a different thing, the creator deciding to offer it for 2 different prices in different locations, and someone profiting from selling a freebie item...

I don't think comparing it to downloading music works well because its not the person selling it making money from it that bothers me, its that someone is being ripped off, paying for it.

I don't even care if they don't mind paying, it was created for the purpose of being free. Its not like shopping around for the best price for something, because its RRP is L$0.

It may not be agaist the rules but its as sleezy as you get..
_____________________
I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
---------------
Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50)
---------------
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
07-23-2005 20:13
Ultimately, it really doesn't matter.

First, the economics involved here are not on the side of the parasites who try to make a living selling the intellectual property that has been given free, as a gift, by its creators to the community. Often enough, free items are not that compelling as commercial items and do not command a rewarding price for the seller. The economy isn't going to support that many junk stores and it's usually plainly obvious when someone is selling everything and the kitchen sink that they're more interested in having money than they are in doing real product development. Maybe they'll make a few bucks here and there, but this simple isn't sustainable as a business model.

Second, the offenders who end up rezzing every transferrable item they've ever collected and then slap on ridiculous prices will declare that the rules allow them to do this. Touche! There is no rule forbidding the practice, true enough.

Nor is there a rule that says people annoyed by this can't go and neg-rate the seller. They can. And every time this happens, the seller gets neg-rated by a decently large handful of people -- many more than the seller, usually, can afford to neg-rate back. Funny thing is, they get pissed off about the neg-rates! So, they can do something that isn't pleasant but is within the rules, but God forbid anyone do the same.

So ultimately, it doesn't matter. The parasites will do their thing, people will notice, and the stinging antiseptic of the ratings system will kick in to let them know their practices are not kosher. Argue all you want about the ratings system's value, but a new person with significantly more negative ratings than positive says a lot.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Horatio Tyne
FIC= Fascist Inner Core
Join date: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 45
07-25-2005 00:49
From: Enabran Templar
So ultimately, it doesn't matter. The parasites will do their thing, people will notice, and the stinging antiseptic of the ratings system will kick in to let them know their practices are not kosher. Argue all you want about the ratings system's value, but a new person with significantly more negative ratings than positive says a lot.


See, your problem here Enabran is you're now advocating harassment in breach of Section 5.1x of the TOS:
you agree that you shall not..."stalk" or otherwise harass another user. I'd also note that in distrurbing mine and others quiet enjoyment of our SL experience you'd also be breaching the Community Standards as well:
Intolerance: Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole.
Harassment Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment (sound a lot like you and your cohorts chosing to deface my shop and negatively rate me, doesn't it?)

So really, who is the parasite now? All I want is to quietly enjoy my Second Life experience, do a little trade, build a bit, play some Tringo and live happily ever after. You and your friends on the other hand chose to harass others with a warped form of protectionist capitalism that attempts to deny others quiet enjoyment of their SL experience in compliance with the TOS.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
07-25-2005 02:59
From: Horatio Tyne
See, your problem here Enabran is you're now advocating harassment in breach of Section 5.1x of the TOS:
you agree that you shall not..."stalk" or otherwise harass another user. I'd also note that in distrurbing mine and others quiet enjoyment of our SL experience you'd also be breaching the Community Standards as well:
Intolerance: Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole.
Harassment Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment (sound a lot like you and your cohorts chosing to deface my shop and negatively rate me, doesn't it?)

So really, who is the parasite now? All I want is to quietly enjoy my Second Life experience, do a little trade, build a bit, play some Tringo and live happily ever after. You and your friends on the other hand chose to harass others with a warped form of protectionist capitalism that attempts to deny others quiet enjoyment of their SL experience in compliance with the TOS.


I'm allowed to rate anyone I want. So can anyone else. Someone who behaves badly will be rated badly by people freely choosing to use the ratings system. That's why the system exists. Done yet?

edit: Unless you think I'm flirting and rating you constitutes an unwanted advance. Don't worry, I'm not and it doesn't.

edit 2: It just now occurred to me that the hostile "I-have-a-fraction-of-the-experience-here-that-you-do-but-I-know-more-and-I-don't-care-what-you-have-to-say" mentality is where the classic friction between new users and experienced users of any given service comes from. Until right here I've usually been lucky enough to avoid bumping into someone like that, though.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Horatio Tyne
FIC= Fascist Inner Core
Join date: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 45
07-25-2005 05:20
From: Enabran Templar
edit 2: It just now occurred to me that the hostile "I-have-a-fraction-of-the-experience-here-that-you-do-but-I-know-more-and-I-don't-care-what-you-have-to-say" mentality is where the classic friction between new users and experienced users of any given service comes from. Until right here I've usually been lucky enough to avoid bumping into someone like that, though.


See Enabran, you've played your hand now for everyone to see, the problem is the holier than though attitude you and your friends have towards newcommers based simply on the notion that you were here first, and therfore you can bully and do as you please, that's the problem. I'm not suggesting that I'm superior to you in any way, however all I ask is not be harassed and allowed quiet enjoyment of SL. And I'd note, I didn't pick this fight, you and your cohorts did when you started harassing me.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
07-25-2005 06:19
From: Horatio Tyne
And I'd note, I didn't pick this fight, you and your cohorts did when you started harassing me.


Yes, you'll fit right in with the victim crowd. Welcome aboard.

From: Horatio Tyne
Hitler killed the jews and some of you want to kill newbies, makes a lot of sense. Fetered inner core or Fascist inner core??? (link)


From: Horatio Tyne
Kill the newbies so we can keep the whole of SL for our selves is where your coming from. (link)
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Gabrielle Assia
Mostly Ignorant
Join date: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 262
07-25-2005 10:05
From: Dark Korvin
Cannibalsim of others people's methods has been behind creative invention from the beginning. Does anyone really create with lack of prior influence. Did Ford create his automobile with no influence from the creators of the steam engine or wheel. People building on each others ideas is my definition of growth. Some will go forward, some will be mindless copies, and others will make you wonder what they were thinking.


Good point. This last week a friend had bought two cute candles that gave off pretty
butterflies as smoke. Several people in the club we were at thought they were cool.
She really likes butterflies, so I gave her a bunch of free butterfly stuff I have and
she gave me one of the candles. The next day I thanked her again, and asked if
there was anything else I could get for her, and she made a comment about wishing
she could WEAR something that did what the candle did... so, being the newbie
that I am... with no real scripting skills, and little build skills... I took apart the
candle to see how it worked. Most everything in there was mod/copy except for
the butterfly texture itself. I assumed (whether right or wrong in SOME peoples
eyes), that this meant the creator valued their texture, but everything else was
fair game. I slapped my own texture together... and WHA-LA ! a new belly jewel
which I gave to her... she was so happy!

I spent about 6 hours learning.... learning about how the scripts worked, since
I wanted to make a few minor adjustments... learning my photo editing tool
to make SL textures... putting all the pieces together, etc.

It was time well spent.... I'm becoming a more productive SL contributor...
I helped out another resident obtain something of "value" to her....



From: Dark Korvin

This is why free items offer something to the world of SL, it lets the starting point of its population be further than ground 0. As far as resell of these items goes, I guess the buyer must simply beware. (...snip...) If it were really worth $6000, then it would be rare to find someone that could just repeat your ideas and resell them for free.

[/QUOTE]

I DO also believe that we need to educate newbies to SHOP AROUND before
you buy... just like in First Life. My first day in SL that's what I did... and it's
MUCH more common sense than to have to RE-educate(?) people that a part
of the SL community feels it's in bad taste to sell items you "own" in your
inventory.

HOWEVER....

Following the process further with my story above...
I gave her the item for free... because she seems nice. I also felt good about it
because I had given her some free items and she had given me the candle which
cost her $30 and I still felt her offering to me was still under compensated.

This brings me to some real bad news for the SL economy which I've been
giving much thought... and plan on starting a new thread about soon...

.... Rare to repeat someone's ideas and make them available for free?
I have a STRONG suspicion there are many who would not mind this at all!
I marked my free item to my friend as "no mod/no copy" because my time
and work spent on it were meant for her. If she later wishes to sell it for
$100 or give it away, I want her to have that option, but I didn't want to
see 50 million copies floating around of something so cute... (just quite yet) :)

But, in a month I might feel differently and want EVERYONE to have free floating
butterflies! I'd even give the texture away.... everything free to copy/mod.
So, what happens to the person selling the Butterfly Candle for $30 ?
She's now outta biz... infact, I bet my friend would have paid the other person
to make that item for her, so I took THAT biz away from her too. If a new friend
sees my floating butterflies and wants them, I'll probably give them to that
friend too.... another lost sale for the Butterfly seller.

On a MUCH grander scheme... lets say that in a year Chip Midnight gets
wrapped up in First Life, and decides not to come in-world anymore....
and as a parting gift to all residents makes the ENTIRE line of skins, clothes,
whatever free to the public ! including texture templates, etc.
What would THAT do for the current skin designers biz?

What if Cubey did the same thing after getting his fill of SL?

Do you get the point yet?
SL is headed in a BAD direction if there are no "labor" costs in creating
duplicate items. One day there might be SO many awesome free items
that few people will see a need to buy anything.

I'll start the new thread now, since this is getting a bit off-topic,
and I expect a lot more discussion on this.

Gabrielle
Gabrielle Assia
Mostly Ignorant
Join date: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 262
07-25-2005 11:23
From: Chip Midnight
If you sell someone what they could easily have obtained for free you're being nothing but a scam artist. The entitlement mentality of people who think doing that is fine and dandy makes me sick. If you want money, earn it from your own effort, not someone else's.


Not sure where you live, but around here we have a place called "Goodwill"
where people can drop off items they dont need anymore (free)... The Goodwill
stores then turn around and sell those items to people who might want them.

I see nothing wrong with that, and neither do the thousands (if not millions)
of people who contribute to the Goodwill stores. The people buying from
Goodwill are happy to have found something they can use.

The original creator of the item has NO idea what happens to their item
after the first sale or shipment to the distributor.



Chip, I do respect you in the community.. even though we have not met yet,
you have a good reputation. I DO agree with you that there is a problem,
but the problem is not with selling items that can be found (somewhere)
for free. The problem is with the "copy" permission and the fact there are
no labor costs for duplicating objects. I've started a new thread for this
"SL economy in trouble?!"
/130/ad/55156/1.html



Personally I DO think there is a value in collecting and organising and
marketing and distributing (making easy to find) all the free items out there.
You don't have to agree, but I think "selling free items" is not focusing
on the REAL problem.

Gabrielle
Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
07-25-2005 11:47
From: Gabrielle Assia
Not sure where you live, but around here we have a place called "Goodwill"
where people can drop off items they dont need anymore (free)... The Goodwill
stores then turn around and sell those items to people who might want them.

I see nothing wrong with that, and neither do the thousands (if not millions)
of people who contribute to the Goodwill stores. The people buying from
Goodwill are happy to have found something they can use.

The original creator of the item has NO idea what happens to their item
after the first sale or shipment to the distributor.
Of course, the people dropping off those items rather understand, and are deliberatly offering the items for that purpose - so the analogy fails here.
_____________________
Gabrielle Assia
Mostly Ignorant
Join date: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 262
07-25-2005 12:11
From: Lordfly Digeridoo
Not really. If you don't allow your clothes to be set to "copy", then people can't make outfits. If people set their prefab homes to "no copy", then once someone fucks up the original design, they broke it FOREVER, necessitating an (unnecessary) further purchase of something they already own.


These are good points, but we need another solution.
Perhaps rather than making a full-blown copy, we need to be given
the ability to "make a link" .... for those familiar with Windows Shortcuts
or Unix hard/soft links. This way the person really owns ONE copy of the
item, but can make a reference to it in other outfit folders.

As far as the "destroying your house" problem...
I agree it's nice to be able to rez an object.. manipulate prims at will..
and if you mess it up, just delete, and rez again from another good copy.
Part of me feels that this to get the best for the SL community we might
have to give up that luxury... it might be a shock at first... but First Life
does not work that way.... it's not a REQUIREMENT that Second Life does.
But, perhaps we can find a better solution for this too... where you can
make as many copies of an item that you want for yourself... where the
items "Asset UUID" is linked to the owner at purchase (or when acquired).
They can make as many copies as they want... but if/when they try to
sell the item or give it away... all the copies they made are gone too.

That would mean someone wanting to resell an item, or create and sell
an item of their own having a piece made from someone elses items
could do so... but they'd only be able to sell more than one, if they had
first puchased more than one themselves.




From: Lordfly Digeridoo

So if you ever unlock your door, or not replace your windows with shatterproof glass, then you are giving me the green light to enter your home and take what I please?


I've seen this 2 or 3 times now, but it's totally useless.
If someone hands me a free item, they have given it to me... it's their intent
is for me to have the item. If I leave my doors open, I am not offering the
items in my house for free... even though it makes it easier for someone to take.



From: Lordfly Digeridoo

There shouldn't need to be a secondhand market; there is no cost of production, minus time developing the product. If you want my chair, then go to my store and buy the damn thing.


Why does there have to be a need for people to make things happen? There
are TONS of things people are doing not out of need... ut out of desire, or
maybe just out of being able to say they've done it. Also, it's very narrow-minded
for you to say there is not a need for something just because you might not
see a need yourself. Why should I have to go hunt down your shop to buy
your chair if I see it for sale in the 2nd hand shop right in front of me??
Heck! I might have never even KNOWN about your chair if it hadn't been in
this 2nd hand shop!

Again... the solution to this problem is NOT in controlling the resale of items
(free or not)... the problem is in the "copy" permission and the lack of
labor costs involved in duplicating items. Again, see my new thread on this:
/130/ad/55156/1.html

If the 2nd hand shop had to buy 30 of your chairs to resell 30 of your chairs
all would be good.

If a person obtained 30 free items, they could resell 30 items, but then
have to go collect more to sell more. Works fine in First Life!



From: Lordfly Digeridoo

Do you know why it's looked down upon to sell others' work? There's no risk by you; all you have to do is rez it, slap a price on it, and fly away. Zero business cost. That's why it's looked down upon; you're selling someone else's work, undercutting their profits, and not doing a damn thing to produce anything for anyone. It's scummy.

in SL, there is no such thing as scarcity.


See my REAL solution above...


From: Lordfly Digeridoo

Why would I bother designing homes if someone can buy my house once, rez it for sale, crank the price up 150%, and sell 10 copies to unsuspecting newbies? What's my incentive?


Good point! -- again you're looking at the wrong solution... If I was REALLY
generous toward the SL community and was much more talented than I am.
I would buy one of your hot selling houses... examine it... create one just
like it as close as I could (not doing the copy thing, but manually)... and then
post a sign over your shop telling people "Why pay more?! Why pay ANYTHING?!
you can get a replica of this house for free! Just contact me". I'd hand out
free copies to anyone who wanted one... all day... NOW where is your incentive?
Have I done anything "illegal"? I created my replica by hand... and now giving
away my new creation.. VERY generous on my part to the community while you
are mean and selfish by selling yours... depriving people of their hard earned
money!

AGAIN... the problem is not with resale of items! It IS with the copy/labor
aspect of SL! If it cost me something to reproduce each of my replica houses
then I'd really have to think twice about giving so many away!

Now.. go check out my other thread and let's get down to solving
the REAL problem !

Gabrielle
Gabrielle Assia
Mostly Ignorant
Join date: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 262
07-25-2005 12:30
From: Jillian Callahan
Of course, the people dropping off those items rather understand, and are deliberatly offering the items for that purpose - so the analogy fails here.


I don't think so... My point is not that the person giving free item knows it
will be sold at Goodwill, as opposed to the SL creator who gives an item
not knowing it will be resold later.

Chip made the comment:
From: Chip Midnight

If you sell someone what they could easily have obtained for free you're being nothing but a scam artist. If you want money, earn it from your own effort, not someone else's.


and I am pointing out that THERE is are many places in First Life where someone
is selling things to people which they could get for free. As I pointed out earlier
even the grocery store sells tomatoes which I could easily be grown and picked
in someone's backyard!

My reply on this was to show that selling items which can be obtained for
free does not make the person a scam artist, which is exactly what was said.

If something else was MEANT, then something else should have been said.

Gabrielle
Roseann Flora
/wrist
Join date: 7 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,058
07-25-2005 12:54
From: Gabrielle Assia
These are good points, but we need another solution.
Perhaps rather than making a full-blown copy, we need to be given
the ability to "make a link" .... for those familiar with Windows Shortcuts
or Unix hard/soft links. This way the person really owns ONE copy of the
item, but can make a reference to it in other outfit folders.

As far as the "destroying your house" problem...
I agree it's nice to be able to rez an object.. manipulate prims at will..
and if you mess it up, just delete, and rez again from another good copy.
Part of me feels that this to get the best for the SL community we might
have to give up that luxury... it might be a shock at first... but First Life
does not work that way.... it's not a REQUIREMENT that Second Life does.
But, perhaps we can find a better solution for this too... where you can
make as many copies of an item that you want for yourself... where the
items "Asset UUID" is linked to the owner at purchase (or when acquired).
They can make as many copies as they want... but if/when they try to
sell the item or give it away... all the copies they made are gone too.

That would mean someone wanting to resell an item, or create and sell
an item of their own having a piece made from someone elses items
could do so... but they'd only be able to sell more than one, if they had
first puchased more than one themselves.






I've seen this 2 or 3 times now, but it's totally useless.
If someone hands me a free item, they have given it to me... it's their intent
is for me to have the item. If I leave my doors open, I am not offering the
items in my house for free... even though it makes it easier for someone to take.





Why does there have to be a need for people to make things happen? There
are TONS of things people are doing not out of need... ut out of desire, or
maybe just out of being able to say they've done it. Also, it's very narrow-minded
for you to say there is not a need for something just because you might not
see a need yourself. Why should I have to go hunt down your shop to buy
your chair if I see it for sale in the 2nd hand shop right in front of me??
Heck! I might have never even KNOWN about your chair if it hadn't been in
this 2nd hand shop!

Again... the solution to this problem is NOT in controlling the resale of items
(free or not)... the problem is in the "copy" permission and the lack of
labor costs involved in duplicating items. Again, see my new thread on this:
/130/ad/55156/1.html

If the 2nd hand shop had to buy 30 of your chairs to resell 30 of your chairs
all would be good.

If a person obtained 30 free items, they could resell 30 items, but then
have to go collect more to sell more. Works fine in First Life!





See my REAL solution above...




Good point! -- again you're looking at the wrong solution... If I was REALLY
generous toward the SL community and was much more talented than I am.
I would buy one of your hot selling houses... examine it... create one just
like it as close as I could (not doing the copy thing, but manually)... and then
post a sign over your shop telling people "Why pay more?! Why pay ANYTHING?!
you can get a replica of this house for free! Just contact me". I'd hand out
free copies to anyone who wanted one... all day... NOW where is your incentive?
Have I done anything "illegal"? I created my replica by hand... and now giving
away my new creation.. VERY generous on my part to the community while you
are mean and selfish by selling yours... depriving people of their hard earned
money!

AGAIN... the problem is not with resale of items! It IS with the copy/labor
aspect of SL! If it cost me something to reproduce each of my replica houses
then I'd really have to think twice about giving so many away!

Now.. go check out my other thread and let's get down to solving
the REAL problem !

Gabrielle


You get what you pay for most times...I really don’t want a piece of crap when I can have something made with good taste and detail so on! :p anything I make is copy no mod no trans this works good for me:)
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